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Old
02-17-2011, 03:27 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Would you rather have Shelley, quite possibly the slowest skater in the league with the worst form in the history of the NHL? It's not like Shelley is good in the defenseive zone either: he can't keep up with anyone.
Wellwood? Carcillo?

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02-17-2011, 03:29 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by JonnyGaloshes View Post
I like having Zherdev in the lineup because he doesn't fit.

We can beat teams in so many different ways, including lazy Russian dangling.
Except when he dangles, he loses the puck 98% of the time. Lavy see's this, and benches him, some of his fans get pissed off, Lavy puts him out again, and he does the same ****, trying to go around 3-4 people and loses the puck. Rinse and repeat.

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02-17-2011, 03:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
Wellwood? Carcillo?
Ya Shelley isnt going to crack the lineup in the playoffs and that is 100% cetainty

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02-17-2011, 04:23 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
Ya Shelley isnt going to crack the lineup in the playoffs and that is 100% cetainty
I'm not so sure about that unless he's traded which I doubt. I think he'll get token minutes and dress up here and there to get him involved although I'm not condoning it by any means...

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02-17-2011, 04:43 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I'm not so sure about that unless he's traded which I doubt. I think he'll get token minutes and dress up here and there to get him involved although I'm not condoning it by any means...
Its like this for all fighters, they all get fairly regular time with their teams during the season, and once the playoffs roll around they all take to the press box... it was the same as riley cote

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Old
02-17-2011, 06:34 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
Its like this for all fighters, they all get fairly regular time with their teams during the season, and once the playoffs roll around they all take to the press box... it was the same as riley cote
I never saw Cote block and shot for a turnover breakaway and go top-corner slapper, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Shelley saw a bit of PO action, especially if the Flyers meet the Bruins.

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02-17-2011, 08:32 PM
  #57
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The Flyers will trade him. They've treated him like a child all year, with doubts from the press, the fans, etcetera hanging over him. If he had gotten just a bit of power play time, he'd be a 20-goal-scorer right now. But it wouldn't have mattered. Ideally he should play with other creative Europeans, with a North American goon thrown in for the necessary muscle, so integral to NHL hockey. Watched the game in the US, Soviet Union and Czech Republic, and purely in terms of hockey, the game in North America is lacking, although it rules in fisticuffs. Doubt many KHL teams would seek the 'talents' of Scott Hartnell, or Carcillo. Nevertheless, Zherdev is playing in North America, and must adapt to the dump-and-chase style suited for the smaller rinks. And here, Zherdev has failed. Unless he can go to a team that embraces foreigners such as Detroit, he should probably go back to Russia, where the game is simply better suited to his game. His fans in Philly will remember some of his goals, the likes of which the Flyers rarely score. The sublime drag and wrist shot goal against Calgary; the textbook goal of patience against Pittsburgh in which he left a defender flopping on the ice; much the same against Buffalo; the breakaway goal against the Rangers; the tight-angle goal against the Rangers. See ya Nikolay.

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Old
02-17-2011, 09:03 PM
  #58
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Zherdev/Carcillo/Shelley

You gotta kill one, marry one, **** one...go!

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02-17-2011, 09:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
The Flyers will trade him. They've treated him like a child all year, with doubts from the press, the fans, etcetera hanging over him. If he had gotten just a bit of power play time, he'd be a 20-goal-scorer right now. But it wouldn't have mattered. Ideally he should play with other creative Europeans, with a North American goon thrown in for the necessary muscle, so integral to NHL hockey. Watched the game in the US, Soviet Union and Czech Republic, and purely in terms of hockey, the game in North America is lacking, although it rules in fisticuffs. Doubt many KHL teams would seek the 'talents' of Scott Hartnell, or Carcillo. Nevertheless, Zherdev is playing in North America, and must adapt to the dump-and-chase style suited for the smaller rinks. And here, Zherdev has failed. Unless he can go to a team that embraces foreigners such as Detroit, he should probably go back to Russia, where the game is simply better suited to his game. His fans in Philly will remember some of his goals, the likes of which the Flyers rarely score. The sublime drag and wrist shot goal against Calgary; the textbook goal of patience against Pittsburgh in which he left a defender flopping on the ice; much the same against Buffalo; the breakaway goal against the Rangers; the tight-angle goal against the Rangers. See ya Nikolay.

Game in north america is lacking? thats why all of the best players in the league play here? thats why average players in the NHL tear it up in the KHL because of the difference in quality.

Yes detroit embraces european/russian players however they only embrace ones that put team first and buy into a system, and rountinely back check and play a tight defensive game. Datsyuk, zetterberg, lindstrom, fillpula all buy into a team concept and pavel and zetterberg are two of the best two way forwards in the game. I highly doubt Babcock would put up with zherdev and his tendency to float around the ice with no intention of playing a team game.

I like zherdev as a player, I dont like zherdev as a part of the flyers team.... its one thing when a coach is tired of your lack of commitment to a team game, but its another when there is rumblings of your own teammates questioning your play.

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02-17-2011, 09:19 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
Game in north america is lacking? thats why all of the best players in the league play here? thats why average players in the NHL tear it up in the KHL because of the difference in quality.

Yes detroit embraces european/russian players however they only embrace ones that put team first and buy into a system, and rountinely back check and play a tight defensive game. Datsyuk, zetterberg, lindstrom, fillpula all buy into a team concept and pavel and zetterberg are two of the best two way forwards in the game. I highly doubt Babcock would put up with zherdev and his tendency to float around the ice with no intention of playing a team game.

I like zherdev as a player, I dont like zherdev as a part of the flyers team.... its one thing when a coach is tired of your lack of commitment to a team game, but its another when there is rumblings of your own teammates questioning your play.
Did I miss something?

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02-17-2011, 09:22 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Did I miss something?
I wish I had the link, I was just reading it today in an article from a philly writer.... I mean you can take or leave some of these stories, but it does make sense with guys like pronger, briere, OD on the team that wouldnt be willing to deal with a guy that doesnt put team first.

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02-17-2011, 09:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
I wish I had the link, I was just reading it today in an article from a philly writer.... I mean you can take or leave some of these stories, but it does make sense with guys like pronger, briere, OD on the team that wouldnt be willing to deal with a guy that doesnt put team first.
note I just mention these guys because they are the "veterans"

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02-17-2011, 09:40 PM
  #63
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Zherdev

Bottom line is that Zherdev has been much more determined and played much more defense than was expected. Most of the time he gets back and plays defense but its gonna take time for him to move away from his typical style of play but he has shown that he trys. IMO we knew what we were getting, got a more well rounded player than expected, and aren't letting him develop and change his style. he is practically a rookie and JVR who has been much less effective is getting fed on a silver platter. Now, when we want to use Z in the playoffs his gameplay will still be his unnecessary show to it

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02-17-2011, 10:25 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
Game in north america is lacking? thats why all of the best players in the league play here? thats why average players in the NHL tear it up in the KHL because of the difference in quality.

Yes detroit embraces european/russian players however they only embrace ones that put team first and buy into a system, and rountinely back check and play a tight defensive game. Datsyuk, zetterberg, lindstrom, fillpula all buy into a team concept and pavel and zetterberg are two of the best two way forwards in the game. I highly doubt Babcock would put up with zherdev and his tendency to float around the ice with no intention of playing a team game.

I like zherdev as a player, I dont like zherdev as a part of the flyers team.... its one thing when a coach is tired of your lack of commitment to a team game, but its another when there is rumblings of your own teammates questioning your play.
Ironically, everything outside the game is superior in North America. Money, arenas, treatment, etc. What goes on the ice, however, is not what a lot are used to. Jaromir Jagr went to Russia mainly for the style of play. A lot of other Czechs there have said the same thing, including Skoula just recently. Jasin is happier playing fast skating, passing hockey in Russia. On the other hand, Finns and Swedes adapt better to the hockey played in the NHL. Their style of play is more physical than that played by Russians, Czechs and Slovaks.

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Old
02-18-2011, 08:32 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by JonnyGaloshes View Post
I like having Zherdev in the lineup because he doesn't fit.

We can beat teams in so many different ways, including lazy Russian dangling.
But in the playoffs when a game is relying on every shift and a one goal game can be the difference the coach needs to have the confidence that they can play as a unit not only offensively but defensively. The moment Zherdev looks for that cherry pick or does not bust his butt to get back and instead goes for a line change the coach is going to scrtinize him for that miscue.

Also the dangle up top where a pokecheck results in a two-on-none the opposite way...NO-NO.

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02-18-2011, 08:40 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by rafman522 View Post
Bottom line is that Zherdev has been much more determined and played much more defense than was expected. Most of the time he gets back and plays defense but its gonna take time for him to move away from his typical style of play but he has shown that he trys. IMO we knew what we were getting, got a more well rounded player than expected, and aren't letting him develop and change his style. he is practically a rookie and JVR who has been much less effective is getting fed on a silver platter. Now, when we want to use Z in the playoffs his gameplay will still be his unnecessary show to it

With a coach like Laviolette "most of the time" does not count and will result in a benching if he feels it is necessary. As far as your reference to JvR, look at his play as of late and he has been a project too, getting benched at times.

JvR has taken his medicine, made strides to be a better overall player, and is now being rewarded for his progression. Zherdev was given the same rewards during the stretch where he was playing well, and then in games against Nashville, Dallas, and Carolina he was slowly docked minutes due to the coach not seeing the proper effort.

Zherdev has been given the chances to earn the spot, but he at some point has let the coach see he cannot be trusted to play in his system.

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02-18-2011, 08:44 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
Ironically, everything outside the game is superior in North America. Money, arenas, treatment, etc. What goes on the ice, however, is not what a lot are used to. Jaromir Jagr went to Russia mainly for the style of play. A lot of other Czechs there have said the same thing, including Skoula just recently. Jasin is happier playing fast skating, passing hockey in Russia. On the other hand, Finns and Swedes adapt better to the hockey played in the NHL. Their style of play is more physical than that played by Russians, Czechs and Slovaks.
Jagr went to Russia because he was washed up, it is an easier league to extend their careers and still get paid for the name they earned in the NA game in the NHL.

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02-18-2011, 10:21 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
With a coach like Laviolette "most of the time" does not count and will result in a benching if he feels it is necessary. As far as your reference to JvR, look at his play as of late and he has been a project too, getting benched at times.

JvR has taken his medicine, made strides to be a better overall player, and is now being rewarded for his progression. Zherdev was given the same rewards during the stretch where he was playing well, and then in games against Nashville, Dallas, and Carolina he was slowly docked minutes due to the coach not seeing the proper effort.

Zherdev has been given the chances to earn the spot, but he at some point has let the coach see he cannot be trusted to play in his system.




Z has had a much shorter leash, which is understandable with the history. We have guys making mistakes, they just don't look like "lack of effort mistakes."

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02-18-2011, 11:44 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Jagr went to Russia because he was washed up, it is an easier league to extend their careers and still get paid for the name they earned in the NA game in the NHL.


this....


Or alot of guys wont be able to get a contract in the NHL so they go over there, try to reastablish themselves so they can earn a contract in NA again.... ex ray emery

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02-18-2011, 03:24 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Z has had a much shorter leash, which is understandable with the history. We have guys making mistakes, they just don't look like "lack of effort mistakes."

powe's little chip right to boothe sure looked like a lack of effort mistake to me last game

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02-18-2011, 03:51 PM
  #71
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powe's little chip right to boothe sure looked like a lack of effort mistake to me last game
It was a poorly executed pass. He had a wide open Betts coming up ice with speed he was trying to get the puck to, and missed him.

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02-18-2011, 04:36 PM
  #72
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Jagr went to Russia because he was washed up, it is an easier league to extend their careers and still get paid for the name they earned in the NA game in the NHL.
Jagr would have succeeded wherever he played. He was taught the game in Litvinov. In all fairness, he also credits Lemieux with aiding his development. As for whether the KHL is the league where elephants go to die, check out Chris Chelios, Mike Modano, Teemu Selanne and others who skate (skated) around NHL rinks well into the twilight of their careers. Again, I'm not arguing whether the KHL is better than the NHL. The money is far superior in the NHL, and it gets the world's best players. But most of the players are North Americans and their style predominates. The KHL plays a different brand of hockey, obviously influenced by Russians and their brand of hockey, with higher emphasis on skating, passing and little on intimidation, namely fighting. Just as Zherdev has had problems adapting to the North American direct style of play, I'd bet more than a few NHL 'stars' (among them Flyers) would have their problems in Russia. I doubt many teams would be interested in Carcillo, Powe, Hartnell, Shelley for example. I remember during the lockout Brendan Morrison came over to the Czech Republic with Petr Sykora to play. He did okay, but was far from a standout, getting a few garbage goals in front of the net. The coaches weren't impressed. Having said that, I see he's never really stood out in the NHL either, despite being drafted 39th overall by the Devils in 1993. Well, the Flyers have made their decision. I hope Flyers fans aren't disappointed come April or May.

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02-18-2011, 04:45 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Would you rather have Shelley, quite possibly the slowest skater in the league with the worst form in the history of the NHL? It's not like Shelley is good in the defenseive zone either: he can't keep up with anyone.
Really?

Because he can block shots and knows where he should be positionally.

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02-18-2011, 04:50 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
Jagr would have succeeded wherever he played. He was taught the game in Litvinov. In all fairness, he also credits Lemieux with aiding his development. As for whether the KHL is the league where elephants go to die, check out Chris Chelios, Mike Modano, Teemu Selanne and others who skate (skated) around NHL rinks well into the twilight of their careers. Again, I'm not arguing whether the KHL is better than the NHL. The money is far superior in the NHL, and it gets the world's best players. But most of the players are North Americans and their style predominates. The KHL plays a different brand of hockey, obviously influenced by Russians and their brand of hockey, with higher emphasis on skating, passing and little on intimidation, namely fighting. Just as Zherdev has had problems adapting to the North American direct style of play, I'd bet more than a few NHL 'stars' (among them Flyers) would have their problems in Russia. I doubt many teams would be interested in Carcillo, Powe, Hartnell, Shelley for example. I remember during the lockout Brendan Morrison came over to the Czech Republic with Petr Sykora to play. He did okay, but was far from a standout, getting a few garbage goals in front of the net. The coaches weren't impressed. Having said that, I see he's never really stood out in the NHL either, despite being drafted 39th overall by the Devils in 1993. Well, the Flyers have made their decision. I hope Flyers fans aren't disappointed come April or May.

Chelios, Mondano, Selanne were/still are productive players in the nhl, now modano has been hurt all this year, but a guy like selanne is still a point per game player despite his age, not all older guys go over to russia, it seems only ones that just cant hack it in the NHL go over there. There is probably a list of about 75 players from the nhl that now play in the KHL because they couldnt get a contract here.

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02-18-2011, 05:44 PM
  #75
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Really?

Because he can block shots and knows where he should be positionally.
Which is great until they move.

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