HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Zherdev/Carcillo/Shelley

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2011, 05:46 PM
  #76
Alchemy
Philadelphia Flyers
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 12,473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Which is great until they move.
Yeah but its sad if Jody Shelley is a better defensive player then Zherdev.

Its fine for Jody because he sees 5 mins of ice.

Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 05:46 PM
  #77
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Jagr went to Russia because he was washed up, it is an easier league to extend their careers and still get paid for the name they earned in the NA game in the NHL.
His last year in the NHL he put up 25-46-71 on a mediocre Rangers team. The previous two years he'd put up 123 and 96 pts. He wasn't remotely close to "washed up." He went to the KHL because there was better money for him there, and the Rangers were going a different direction (if the Rangers had wanted him, he would have stayed).

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 05:48 PM
  #78
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Yeah but its sad if Jody Shelley is a better defensive player then Zherdev.

Its fine for Jody because he sees 5 mins of ice.
Which doesn't really change the fact that he can't keep up with anyone. I appreciate Shelley's effort, but he's giving away a lot in this league in most "hockey skills" areas.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 05:51 PM
  #79
Alchemy
Philadelphia Flyers
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 12,473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Which doesn't really change the fact that he can't keep up with anyone. I appreciate Shelley's effort, but he's giving away a lot in this league in most "hockey skills" areas.
Oh trust me i'm not trying to pimp Jody Shelley up. But people are wondering why Z doesn't get a chance. He just doesn't play defense. He often free lances. Instead of playing into the system. Honestly there isn't much a need for Zherdev. We got Versteeg. I think Homer should grab a depth defenseman and another depth forward to take the place of Carcillo/Jody Shelley in the playoffs. Get rid of Zherdev or Carcillo.

Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 05:53 PM
  #80
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
Chelios, Mondano, Selanne were/still are productive players in the nhl, now modano has been hurt all this year, but a guy like selanne is still a point per game player despite his age, not all older guys go over to russia, it seems only ones that just cant hack it in the NHL go over there. There is probably a list of about 75 players from the nhl that now play in the KHL because they couldnt get a contract here.
I was countering a point that somehow the KHL is a league where players -- in particularly Jagr -- a bit long in the tooth can squeeze out a few more years. By the way, Jagr had many offers to return to the NHL (I specifically remember Edmonton courting him a bit). He turned them down. And as I said, there are many NHL players who probably wouldn't 'hack' it in the KHL. Different style of play, kinda like La Liga versus the Premiership, if you follow soccer.

phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 05:59 PM
  #81
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
His last year in the NHL he put up 25-46-71 on a mediocre Rangers team. The previous two years he'd put up 123 and 96 pts. He wasn't remotely close to "washed up." He went to the KHL because there was better money for him there, and the Rangers were going a different direction (if the Rangers had wanted him, he would have stayed).
It's not as simple as that. Jagr was tired of the grind of NHL hockey, the travelling, the hitting, etcetera. He's also talked about the style of play in Russia, and how he finds it more enjoying to play. There are other reasons he has mentioned, in particular his Slavic Orthodox faith of all things. Omsk went after Jagr hard and he's never regretted the move.... On the hockey side, never heard or read him saying anything about the level of play being inferior in the KHL.....

phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 06:07 PM
  #82
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
It's not as simple as that. Jagr was tired of the grind of NHL hockey, the travelling, the hitting, etcetera. He's also talked about the style of play in Russia, and how he finds it more enjoying to play. There are other reasons he has mentioned, in particular his Slavic Orthodox faith of all things. Omsk went after Jagr hard and he's never regretted the move.... On the hockey side, never heard or read him saying anything about the level of play being inferior in the KHL.....
He DEFINITELY would have stayed if the Rangers had wanted him. And in each of the last two years he's talked about wanting to come back to the NHL potentially.

It was pretty straightforward at the time. He wanted to play in NY, or he was going to take the money and go play in the KHL.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 07:16 PM
  #83
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He DEFINITELY would have stayed if the Rangers had wanted him. And in each of the last two years he's talked about wanting to come back to the NHL potentially.

It was pretty straightforward at the time. He wanted to play in NY, or he was going to take the money and go play in the KHL.
Do you read Czech? If you did, you would have a fuller understanding of his position. Yeah, he's talked about returning to Litvinov, too. But he's still in Omsk.

phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 04:06 AM
  #84
CptCannon
Registered User
 
CptCannon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oulu
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,970
vCash: 500
It definately does seem like Zherdev's the last option for Lavy. If Carcillo and Shelley gets to play game after game after game over Z, it's certain they should just get rid of the guy.

Trade him for futures or something, I don't care. Should just use the cap-space Nik takes for a guy like Reasoner or if a 3rd liner could be aquired - would be better.


Btw, I'd give Zherdev one last chance before waving goodbyes.

CptCannon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 05:19 AM
  #85
Alchemy
Philadelphia Flyers
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 12,473
vCash: 500
I don't even think we will get any return for Zherdev.

Teams would rather claim him on waivers.

Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 11:38 AM
  #86
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
Do you read Czech? If you did, you would have a fuller understanding of his position. Yeah, he's talked about returning to Litvinov, too. But he's still in Omsk.
No, but I do understand that people rationalize/make the best of situations as they move along. If the Rangers had put a contract in front of him, he would have signed it... can say whatever he wants about that fact after the deed was done.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 12:00 PM
  #87
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,376
vCash: 500
Ya its Eklund, but supossidly Nashville has interest in Zherdev. I can see something like a 4th round pick and a conditional 2nd (if he signs)

sa cyred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 12:59 PM
  #88
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, but I do understand that people rationalize/make the best of situations as they move along. If the Rangers had put a contract in front of him, he would have signed it... can say whatever he wants about that fact after the deed was done.
Yeah, when Jagr left it was said he wanted a multi-year deal but no NHL team was willing to give him one due to him being over 35. So he left for the KHL where he could get one.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 01:21 PM
  #89
Doyle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,151
vCash: 500
NHLHotStove's David Strehle has an interesting look at the plight of Zherdev, head over an take a look at what he has to say, thanks

http://nhlhotstove.com/writing-on-the-wall-for-zherdev/

Doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 07:14 PM
  #90
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, but I do understand that people rationalize/make the best of situations as they move along. If the Rangers had put a contract in front of him, he would have signed it... can say whatever he wants about that fact after the deed was done.
And you can postulate till the cows come home about what he would have done if such and such happened.... Pure speculation on your part, and you can't prove anything. The record shows he likes it in Omsk; he says he likes the hockey there; and that was my main point. Many Europeans, especially the Slavs, are not too keen on the actual hockey played in the NHL. I'm not saying they hate it. They are aware they are making an obscene amount of money for playing a game under top professional conditions. However, many who have made the switch to the KHL have remarked how the brand of hockey played there is closer to what they are used to and to what the prefer. Some of you need to understand not everyone on the globe is enamored of NHL hockey with its tight spaces, little passing (outside the power play) and stress on the physical aspects of the game, including the fan favorite fighting. A lot of the guys playing in Russia, Belarus, Latvia and wherever the KHL is based, like playing there, and like the hockey. I guess in an ideal world, they'd probably take everything the NHL does outside the game and fuse it with what the KHL does with the game. And, I earlier erred. Jagr hails from Kladno, not Litvinov. My mistake.


Last edited by phillyfury: 02-20-2011 at 07:45 PM.
phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 07:26 PM
  #91
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,827
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
Quote:
Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
I don't even think we will get any return for Zherdev.

Teams would rather claim him on waivers.
Some playoff team will take a chance on him for a draft pick.

flyersfan187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 07:42 PM
  #92
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
The important thing now is for the Flyers to do the right thing and move him. He is not a horse who can be shuffled away in a stable. He is a human being who provided them with admirable service but did not get reciprocal treatment from a coach who is something of an authoritarian. Trade him now so he can get back on the ice as soon as possible and begin to forget his nightmare stopover in Philly and begin to regain his confidence.

phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 07:44 PM
  #93
JonnyGaloshes
Registered User
 
JonnyGaloshes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Philadelphia
Posts: 396
vCash: 500
This team is better with Zherdev in the lineup.

JonnyGaloshes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 07:47 PM
  #94
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Hard to say. He doesn't play the way the coach demands so he should go.

phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 07:53 PM
  #95
ShawnTHW
@ShawnTHW
 
ShawnTHW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 8,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyGaloshes View Post
This team is better with Zherdev in the lineup.
Yea, when he actually gives a ****. But that doesn't happen too often, so he really doesn't make it better.

ShawnTHW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 07:59 PM
  #96
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
He just never really clicked with the team. For him to thrive, he'd probably need Russian linemates, and I can't remember the Flyers ever having more than one Russian on a forward line at one time. He's also a player you want to spring with outbreak passes, and he wasn't getting those. Also, would have probably done well on the power play where his defensive liabilities wouldn't have been exposed and his offensive abilities given a chance to thrive. Again, the coaches didn't see it that way. It seems the coaching mindset was, if we put him on the power play, he'd be rewarded for his lackadaisical play elsewhere. Whether he could be an offensive asset in that specific aspect of the game didn't seem to enter their calculations. And this with an abysmal power play.


Last edited by phillyfury: 02-20-2011 at 08:16 PM.
phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 08:01 PM
  #97
JonnyGaloshes
Registered User
 
JonnyGaloshes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Philadelphia
Posts: 396
vCash: 500
I understand that the coach doesn't like him, and if I were a coach I probably wouldn't either.

But having watched the games all season it's clear to me that with him, the Flyers have the most diverse array of offensive weapons in the league.

Bite the bullet and play the ****ing guy

JonnyGaloshes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 08:08 PM
  #98
phillyfury
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prague, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
He's done in Philly. Versteeg's their kinda guy. Not especially talented, but hardworking, team player, yadayadayada. I agree. I just think if you roll a player out on say a third line with offensive tools like that, it forces the opposition to adjust. The Flyers are going with their tried-and-true. Decent, hardworking players with a great espirit de corps but who will get outskated, outscored against the league's best.


Last edited by phillyfury: 02-20-2011 at 08:26 PM.
phillyfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 08:20 PM
  #99
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,079
vCash: 500
Unless he has a deal in the making, Holmgren may as well wait it out until the trade deadline. Injuries can happen, either to the Flyers or another team who then becomes a little more desperate for a goal-scoring winger. He has no need to divest himself of Zherdev prematurely.

BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 08:25 PM
  #100
JVR21
G
 
JVR21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 7,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
Yea, when he actually gives a ****. But that doesn't happen too often, so he really doesn't make it better.
I'll take a player "doesn't give a ****" any day if he helps us win games. You know what? Nah, let's just keep the good old North American goon who can't even do his job let alone play hockey. Get the Rushkie outta here!

JVR21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.