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MONTREAL Talks With EDM&NASH

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Old
02-18-2011, 08:57 PM
  #476
habspinner
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
It's not necessarily weak, but relative to the rest of the NHL, it's probably in the bottom 10 since guys like Subban and Eller won't be prospects anymore. There are simply more contending teams looking for guys with a lot more in their prospect pool that could interest us if we ever deal Hemsky or Penner, which I'm doubtful we do.
Nah, not bottom 10, more like mid range, around 14-17. Montreal doesn't draft star players, but look at the drafts since 2000, you will find very, very little teams that draft more serviceable NHL players.

I think you and a lot of Oiler fans are skewing your reality in relation to the rest of the NHL. You have a fantastic group of prospects, you should be happy, but don't be fooled, there are only a handful of teams that share your reality.

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02-18-2011, 09:01 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Give your head a shake.

If you think Subban would be a part of a deal for Hemsky, you would be sending a lot more from the Oilers with Hemsky.

Hemsky doesn't fill a need in Montreal. And if Subban was being offered up in a trade the Oilers would have to be sending a Eberle or Paajarvi.
If you want Hemsky we want subban You guys Offering eller and a mid prospect and a first for Hemsky like offering brule and a second and vanvelde for Plekanec feel insulted becuase offering that for Hemsky is a insult. He is so underated on hf compared to what gm's value him his PPg alone is higher than anyone on montreal.

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02-18-2011, 09:05 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
While I agree it would cost us a premium to acquire Hemsky. I believe it is easily possible without using any roster players with the exception of Eller.
So I ask, keeping the aforementioned in mind, what would the cost of Hemsky be?
Montreal doesn't have what Edmonton wants. I'm sorry but I think i have a decent idea what Tambo is thinking, at least I hope I do.

What would it take? B.Schenn, Z.Bogosian, maybe C.Hodgson. Got any of those guys? A future #1d or #1c for a Hemsky+ or Penner+ package is the only reason either will be moved. Both like it in Edmonton and neither will be greedy on their next contracts. Only reason either are "available" is because Edmonton has 6 potential 60+ point wingers but no great centers or Dmen (apart from Whitney).

Convince Atlanta or LA or even Vancouver into a 3-way deal for one of the above mentioned then we'll talk. Edmonton doesn't need more prospects unless they're A+, of which MTL has none.

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02-18-2011, 09:10 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by habspinner View Post
Nah, not bottom 10, more like mid range, around 14-17. Montreal doesn't draft star players, but look at the drafts since 2000, you will find very, very little teams that draft more serviceable NHL players.

I think you and a lot of Oiler fans are skewing your reality in relation to the rest of the NHL. You have a fantastic group of prospects, you should be happy, but don't be fooled, there are only a handful of teams that share your reality.
Yeah, I think that's a fair assesment. HF Organizational Rankings had the Canadiens ranked 15th in November. It will be interesting to see where the rakings will be when some of your older prospects graduate, though.

As as Oilers fan, it's actually nice to see the prospect cupboard well-stocked for a change. After suffering through "Tijuana" Barry Fraser and Kevin Prendergast's gaffs over the years, Stu MacGreggor seems to have finally rightened the ship.

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02-18-2011, 09:12 PM
  #480
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stopped reading at the third page

just no.

there is no way a deal can be made with edmonton without giving 2 guys i wouldn't part with: patches and weber. patches as better ppg than penner and is in his breakout season. weber? can't afford to trade away another d-man, plus, i wouldn't trade him at all. if he's that competent at that age, imagine what he'd be like in 5 years. he's part of my untouchables.

prospects? yeah, maybe.... but the oils are gonna want a roster player back, which brings me back to my first point...

this is gauthier's first real test. he would gain points in my book by not doing anything.

ak i wouldn't part with unless it's a really good deal. i have to problem seeing this guy score 30+ somewhere else. trade him for that value, or keep him.

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Old
02-18-2011, 09:21 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by newoilburnsclean View Post
If you want Hemsky we want subban You guys Offering eller and a mid prospect and a first for Hemsky like offering brule and a second and vanvelde for Plekanec feel insulted becuase offering that for Hemsky is a insult. He is so underated on hf compared to what gm's value him his PPg alone is higher than anyone on montreal.
If your GM actually suggested to Gauthier that he wanted Subban for Hemsky, I think he would put him on the speaker and invite the whole team to come listen and laugh at his expense.

We are not giving up a franchise player for Hemsky.

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02-18-2011, 09:30 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Skarjak View Post
If your GM actually suggested to Tambellini that he wanted Hemsky for Tinordi and a 1st, I think he would put him on the speaker and invite the whole team to come listen and laugh at his expense.

We are not giving up a franchise player for average prospects and a late first round pick.
A LOT of people in this thread are very, very thick. Obviously the Habs fans here aren't willing to give up fair value for Hemsky. Some fans of both sides have said that exact thing, yet we still have people coming in and talking smack. I'll say it again:

The Oilers don't have to move Hemsky or Penner. They will not move him for pieces that doesn't help the team in the short AND long term. So mid range prospects don't help. You'd better have a damn good prospect, and a draft pick to get Hemsky or Penner, otherwise no deal. The Habs don't have enough decent young players to make a deal, that's obvious.

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02-18-2011, 09:34 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Skarjak View Post
If your GM actually suggested to Gauthier that he wanted Subban for Hemsky, I think he would put him on the speaker and invite the whole team to come listen and laugh at his expense.

We are not giving up a franchise player for Hemsky.
It was clearly hyperbole. Point is Oilers are looking for a player who promises to be as good or better than Hemsky/Penner, not a package of 6s and 7s.

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02-18-2011, 09:36 PM
  #484
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I recommend again to Montreal fans to come up with some 3-way deal that gets Edmonton B Schenn or Z Bogosian or maybe R Johanson. From our end we will give up Hemsky/Penner+picks+prospects to get it done.

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02-18-2011, 10:08 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I don't really see Montreal and Edmonton as good trading partners.

Tinordi is an alright prospect, but lets be real, the Kings and several other teams could probably trump that package easily for either one of Penner or Hemsky.
I disagree. I see Edmonton and Montreal as great trade partners. I really don't see Oilers' fans and Habs' fans coming to any sort of agreement on trade value though. The good news? It's not fans negotiating and pulling the trigger!

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02-18-2011, 10:11 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I disagree. I see Edmonton and Montreal as great trade partners. I really don't see Oilers' fans and Habs' fans coming to any sort of agreement on trade value though. The good news? It's not fans negotiating and pulling the trigger!
I agree, if the true value lies closer to the Oiler fans sentiments (not the ones expecting Subban)

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Old
02-18-2011, 10:30 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
A LOT of people in this thread are very, very thick. Obviously the Habs fans here aren't willing to give up fair value for Hemsky. Some fans of both sides have said that exact thing, yet we still have people coming in and talking smack. I'll say it again:

The Oilers don't have to move Hemsky or Penner. They will not move him for pieces that doesn't help the team in the short AND long term. So mid range prospects don't help. You'd better have a damn good prospect, and a draft pick to get Hemsky or Penner, otherwise no deal. THE HABS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DECENT YOUNG PLAYERS TO MAKE A DEAL, THAT'S OBVIOUS.
Obviously you have no clue what you're talking about. We have plenty of decent young players. Some we wouldn't dream of trading for Penner.While you have no need to trade Penner we have no need to overpay for him either. He's not going to help us that much. He's not that good.Good luck thinking you'll get a kings ransom for Penner.

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02-18-2011, 10:36 PM
  #488
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Oilers only need that can't be addressed within their own prospect pool:

1C
1D

Montreal have any of those? no

If Kaberle got a 1st+former first+pick, what will Penner get? He's a good and unique player with a good contract and 82 games more on his contract than Kaberle. By that metric I'd says he's worth 2 firsts + good prospect + 2nd, if not more. Montreal won't give up that much, most teams wouldnt. Tough luck.

Montreal has plenty of B prospects, couple A-'s, no A's or A+'s so the package would have to have at least 2 1sts. The market is crazy, Kaberle trade is the benchmark now, Penner > Kaberle. you do the math.

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02-18-2011, 10:41 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Oilers only need that can't be addressed within their own prospect pool:

1C
1D

Montreal have any of those? no

If Kaberle got a 1st+former first+pick, what will Penner get? He's a good and unique player with a good contract and 82 games more on his contract than Kaberle. By that metric I'd says he's worth 2 firsts + good prospect + 2nd, if not more. Montreal won't give up that much, most teams wouldnt. Tough luck.

Montreal has plenty of B prospects, couple A-'s, no A's or A+'s so the package would have to have at least 2 1sts. The market is crazy, Kaberle trade is the benchmark now, Penner > Kaberle. you do the math.
Penner = an unsign Kaberle
A sign Kaberle easily >> Penner.
On Penner being worth --2 firsts + good prospect + 2nd, if not more.
Thats the most lopsided value i've ever seen on this board.

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02-18-2011, 10:50 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by headshots View Post
Penner = an unsign Kaberle
A sign Kaberle easily >> Penner.
On Penner being worth --2 firsts + good prospect + 2nd, if not more.
Thats the most lopsided value i've ever seen on this board.
Kaberle got a contract extension? Show me, I haven't seen that mentioned. He's a UFA...

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02-18-2011, 10:53 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post

If Kaberle got a 1st+former first+pick, what will Penner get? He's a good and unique player with a good contract and 82 games more on his contract than Kaberle. By that metric I'd says he's worth 2 firsts + good prospect + 2nd, if not more. Montreal won't give up that much, most teams wouldnt. Tough luck.
Neutral party says that is ridiculous

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02-18-2011, 10:57 PM
  #492
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Neutral party says that is ridiculous
It is. So is Kaberle getting 1st+prospect+conditional. Penner has an extra year, clearly making him worth more. That's actually a discount when you use the Kaberle deal as a benchmark.

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02-18-2011, 10:59 PM
  #493
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Kind of funny that this has turned into a Montreal - Edmonton back in forth when I think the other team in the title of the thread has a MUCH better chance of trading with the Habs.

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but teams often trade with each other. There is trust, and relationships established. Gauthier has made trades with Nashville in the past, as has Montreal. When was the last time Montreal did a trade with Edmonton.

If Montreal makes a trade expect it to be with Nashville, Florida, Anaheim or maybe St-Louis. I don't see them trading with any other team. They are NOT going to to trade for either Hemsky or Penner, never, ever going to happen. The asking price will be much too high, and some over zealous GM is going to pay it. I really think the most probable trading partner for Edmonton is LA - and surprise, surprise there is plenty of trading history between these two teams.

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02-18-2011, 11:02 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
It is. So is Kaberle getting 1st+prospect+conditional. Penner has an extra year, clearly making him worth more. That's actually a discount when you use the Kaberle deal as a benchmark.
This is just untrue. I don't believe for a second that gives him more value. If it was longer than one year maybe, but not one year left on the contract. A year is very short, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the receiving team has no guarantee at all that player will resign with them, and on top of it you gave up all those assets. Just a foolish way to run a franchise.

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02-18-2011, 11:02 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
It is. So is Kaberle getting 1st+prospect+conditional. Penner has an extra year, clearly making him worth more. That's actually a discount when you use the Kaberle deal as a benchmark.
I respectfully disagree. Kaberle is worth about the same as Penner right now. I agree that Kabs was an overpayment, but that is just ridiculous. If Penner actually gets that return, feel free to call me stupid, but I dont see Penner getting any more than Kaberle did in return. There are tons of decent scoring wingers out there, but good PMD are rare. Kaberle being a UFA and being older cancels out with the rarity, leaving their value even.

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02-18-2011, 11:06 PM
  #496
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This is just untrue. I don't believe for a second that gives him more value. If it was longer than one year maybe, but not one year left on the contract. A year is very short, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the receiving team has no guarantee at all that player will resign with them, and on top of it you gave up all those assets. Just a foolish way to run a franchise.
In what world does having an extra year on a value contract not make a player more valuable? Denying that makes me question your intelligence.

Just to be clear, I don't think Penner will get that return. If you really think I do go back through my posts and see what proposals I've made. None are anywhere near 2 1sts etc. for Penner.

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02-18-2011, 11:11 PM
  #497
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That SECOND LINER is also 83rd in points and 179th in assists and on pace for 53 points if he played all 82 games. which is why you find him on your2nd line. Nice try though slightly higher pace then gomez who is currently being outplayed by a 5'6 AHL callup.
I love how when people are discussing Hemsky, it's only goals that matter, but when we're talking about Penner, assists are suddenly a big factor.

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02-18-2011, 11:13 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
If Kaberle got a 1st+former first+pick, what will Penner get? He's a good and unique player with a good contract and 82 games more on his contract than Kaberle. By that metric I'd says he's worth 2 firsts + good prospect + 2nd, if not more.
Can't fail much harder than this.

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02-18-2011, 11:15 PM
  #499
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Can't fail much harder than this.
Reading comprehension is a problem here apparently. Go look up "by that metric", maybe google it and see what it means. It was a comparison to the Kaberle trade, a perfectly reasonable argument.

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02-18-2011, 11:17 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Reading comprehension is a problem here apparently. Go look up "by that metric", maybe google it and see what it means. It was a comparison to the Kaberle trade, a perfectly reasonable argument.
It's still ridiculous. Penner isn't worth 2 1st's + 2nd + good prospect no matter what comparisons you wanna use. Even elite players don't get traded for that at the deadline, and Penner is far from elite. Boston simply overpaid for Kaberle, that's all.

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