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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

MONTREAL Talks With EDM&NASH

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Old
02-18-2011, 11:20 PM
  #501
CSimpson18
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Originally Posted by Kaze23 View Post
It's still ridiculous. Penner isn't worth 2 1st's + 2nd + good prospect no matter what comparisons you wanna use. Even elite players don't get traded for that at the deadline, and Penner is far from elite. Boston simply overpaid for Kaberle, that's all.
I am fully aware he won't get that much. It was a single point in a series of discussions, not a statement of what I actually think he could get. I was shocked by Kaberle's return and I think it has set a precedence to a certain degree but I am fully aware that Penner will not get a crosby like package. Or even Kessel like.

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02-18-2011, 11:22 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
In what world does having an extra year on a value contract not make a player more valuable? Denying that makes me question your intelligence.

Just to be clear, I don't think Penner will get that return. If you really think I do go back through my posts and see what proposals I've made. None are anywhere near 2 1sts etc. for Penner.
Sorry, but I just don't buy it. Are you saying that Fisher is an inferior player than Penner? Because I believe they are of equal value. What did he bring back? A 1st round pick + conditional

Penner is on a similar caphit value contract, but shorter contract. If by the estimation that a contract gives value, Fisher should have fetched more because he was on a longer contract.

Penner has warts, Fisher has warts. Penner has unique qualities, as does Fisher. Depending on the teams needs, they are worth pretty much the same thing. You can even look towards Versteeg for similar value.

I think Penner is worth a first, and maybe a second or a third. The contract I still contend means nothing, and I liked for us to politely disagree, if you catch my drift.

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02-18-2011, 11:23 PM
  #503
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Ryan Suter to Canadiens for 1st conditional pick and Brendon Nash

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Old
02-18-2011, 11:28 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by ericd View Post
Ryan Suter to Canadiens for 1st conditional pick and Brendon Nash

I will be nice. Some Nashville fans are of the opinion that Suter is there best defenseman - yes, better than Weber.

So, that would be a bit of a no

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02-18-2011, 11:35 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by habspinner View Post
Sorry, but I just don't buy it. Are you saying that Fisher is an inferior player than Penner? Because I believe they are of equal value. What did he bring back? A 1st round pick + conditional

Penner is on a similar caphit value contract, but shorter contract. If by the estimation that a contract gives value, Fisher should have fetched more because he was on a longer contract.

Penner has warts, Fisher has warts. Penner has unique qualities, as does Fisher. Depending on the teams needs, they are worth pretty much the same thing. You can even look towards Versteeg for similar value.

I think Penner is worth a first, and maybe a second or a third. The contract I still contend means nothing, and I liked for us to politely disagree, if you catch my drift.

I have minor disagreements there. Penner is a unique player, Fisher is far more common. Scoring forwards are in far greater demand and far smaller supply than Fisher-types. Fishers contract is fair value at best, Penners contract is below market value for a 30/30 power forward. Penner is 6'4" 245, aka the biggest scoring forward in the league. Penner's gravitational pull is 12.4m/s. Okay maybe i went too far.

Ottawa is in sell mode, Edmonton is trying to get A+ assets, obviously by packaging Penner+ but they are in no way motivated sellers, they can afford to keep any and all of their players. The prospect cabinet is stocked at almost every position.

You may not think an extra year on a value contract changes a players value in the eyes of a GM, but you're wrong.

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Old
02-18-2011, 11:39 PM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habspinner View Post
Sorry, but I just don't buy it. Are you saying that Fisher is an inferior player than Penner? Because I believe they are of equal value. What did he bring back? A 1st round pick + conditional

Penner is on a similar caphit value contract, but shorter contract. If by the estimation that a contract gives value, Fisher should have fetched more because he was on a longer contract.

Penner has warts, Fisher has warts. Penner has unique qualities, as does Fisher. Depending on the teams needs, they are worth pretty much the same thing. You can even look towards Versteeg for similar value.

I think Penner is worth a first, and maybe a second or a third. The contract I still contend means nothing, and I liked for us to politely disagree, if you catch my drift.
The difference being Fisher and Penner play different roles, which, depending on which roles teams are looking to fill, may cause that value to fluctuate.

Without getting too deep into Adam Smith economics, the principles of Supply and Demand may come into play. Fisher, already having been dealt, impacts the "supply" aspect. There is now one less product to meet the "demand".

If multiple teams create a bidding war, it's tough to say what may be offered for Penner.

One thing that seems to be apparent is that Tambellini won't move Penner unless he finds an offer he deems "worthy".

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02-18-2011, 11:42 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
I have minor disagreements there. Penner is a unique player, Fisher is far more common. Scoring forwards are in far greater demand and far smaller supply than Fisher-types. Fishers contract is fair value at best, Penners contract is below market value for a 30/30 power forward. Penner is 6'4" 245, aka the biggest scoring forward in the league. Penner's gravitational pull is 12.4m/s. Okay maybe i went too far.

Ottawa is in sell mode, Edmonton is trying to get A+ assets, obviously by packaging Penner+ but they are in no way motivated sellers, they can afford to keep any and all of their players. The prospect cabinet is stocked at almost every position.

You may not think an extra year on a value contract changes a players value in the eyes of a GM, but you're wrong.
If that is the case, then Fisher and Penner should be worth the same even though Penner is, in your estimation, a higher valued player.

Ask Ottawa fans though how unique Fisher is. Remember, what is between the two ears is worth oftentimes just as much as the physical specimen. We have a good example of that on our team. Tomas Plekanec. Really not the most imposing player, but his smarts and hockey sense make him a top player.

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Old
02-18-2011, 11:55 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by habspinner View Post
If that is the case, then Fisher and Penner should be worth the same even though Penner is, in your estimation, a higher valued player.

Ask Ottawa fans though how unique Fisher is. Remember, what is between the two ears is worth oftentimes just as much as the physical specimen. We have a good example of that on our team. Tomas Plekanec. Really not the most imposing player, but his smarts and hockey sense make him a top player.
You're wrong though, because an extra year on a contract that is lower than market value is not at all the same as an extra year that is probably a slight overpayment.

You're also underestimating Penners defensive game. When he's on the ice there is less chance of getting scored on than with any other player on our team.

Fisher was -19 on Ottawa, Penner -8 on EDM. Penner plays 1:32 SH TOI/Game, Fisher just a little more at 1:40. They have similar qualcomp and qualteams.

I don't see any reason to consider Fisher the better player defensively based on those numbers...

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Old
02-19-2011, 12:13 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
I respectfully disagree. Kaberle is worth about the same as Penner right now. I agree that Kabs was an overpayment, but that is just ridiculous. If Penner actually gets that return, feel free to call me stupid, but I dont see Penner getting any more than Kaberle did in return. There are tons of decent scoring wingers out there, but good PMD are rare. Kaberle being a UFA and being older cancels out with the rarity, leaving their value even.
As a Oiler fan I see Penner getting less than what Kaberle got . Imo that was a bad overpay on Boston part but a 20th and up first and a above average prospect is probably in the ball park

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Old
02-19-2011, 12:44 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't think you should be saying that about a guy with 16 career goals.
but 10 this season, and he can easily finish the season with 20......in 52 games
in a full season imagine more he can do, plus he looks dynamite this season compared to last

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