HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Would you trade Gabby?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2011, 04:59 PM
  #51
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Brayden Schenn +

Yes.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 05:43 PM
  #52
cally4captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 10
vCash: 500
You can't trade Gaborik now - you just can't. He has one "average" season and you are ready to give up on him? Did you forget how he basically was the whole Ranger team last season? Did you forget that without him the Blueshirts never would have even been playing for a playoff spot in Game 82?

He is an elite talent in the NHL and is (almost definitely) playing through an injury this year. He deserves at least another season in New York. You can't just give up and trade him now.

cally4captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 05:49 PM
  #53
Jabroni
The People's Champ
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,830
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cally4captain View Post
You can't trade Gaborik now - you just can't. He has one "average" season and you are ready to give up on him? Did you forget how he basically was the whole Ranger team last season? Did you forget that without him the Blueshirts never would have even been playing for a playoff spot in Game 82?

He is an elite talent in the NHL and is (almost definitely) playing through an injury this year. He deserves at least another season in New York. You can't just give up and trade him now.
I definitely agree, but the OP is saying would you trade Gaborik if the right deal came about, not pending production.

Even if he's having a career year, if the right trade came up, would you pull the trigger?

(Correct me if I'm wrong OP )

Jabroni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 06:28 PM
  #54
Zuccarello Awesome*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,062
vCash: 500
Gaborik, Anisimov, Del Zotto for Schenn, Johnson, Simmonds, 2nd

Then Sign Richards on July 1st.

Re-sign Dubi, Cally, Boyle and Sauer.
Re-sign Eminger 1-2 years @ 1 million per

Dubinsky Richards Zuccarello
Wolski Stepan Kreider
Simmonds Schenn Callahan
Prust Boyle Avery
Grachev
Werek

Staal Johnson
McDonagh Girardi
Eminger Sauer
Valentenko
or Vet UFA

Lundqvist
Biron

Zuccarello Awesome* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 06:41 PM
  #55
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68MGQR10 View Post
I definitely agree, but the OP is saying would you trade Gaborik if the right deal came about, not pending production.

Even if he's having a career year, if the right trade came up, would you pull the trigger?

(Correct me if I'm wrong OP )
Hahaha. Nothing to correct, that's exactly what I was saying.

That and that the question was worth considering since the team's development doesn't seem to jibe with his career arc.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 07:04 PM
  #56
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,405
vCash: 500
Back on this again? or still on this?

my package has always been

Brown, Schenn, +
for
Gaborik

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 07:11 PM
  #57
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 19,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
Back on this again? or still on this?

my package has always been

Brown, Schenn, +
for
Gaborik
Back on it. We lost again, so we have to be dramatic again.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 07:35 PM
  #58
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Back on it. We lost again, so we have to be dramatic again.
Sigh. Did you read any of my posts? It has nothing to do with his play or the team's progress (they've actually done better than I expected this year, recent difficult stretch notwithstanding).

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:06 PM
  #59
cally4captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 10
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68MGQR10 View Post
I definitely agree, but the OP is saying would you trade Gaborik if the right deal came about, not pending production.

Even if he's having a career year, if the right trade came up, would you pull the trigger?

(Correct me if I'm wrong OP )
Oh, my bad then. I just read the title of the thread and figured it was about trading him bc he "sucks" like most fans are calling for now. But I still felt the need to say what I did for the other people that are calling for him to be traded.

It's funny how fans are screaming to trade Gaborik, but if they did and he went on to score with another team, those same fans would blame Sather...

cally4captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:29 PM
  #60
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
why does everybody use this ridiculous fantasy hockey argument for actual roster moves????

Stats do not equal value in the real world.

The market is dictated by the willingness of GM's to see the possibilities fo adding a player, moving a contract, moving a player at price, etc. A superstar having an off season might have more value in the open market than one having a full blown superstar season, for any number of reasons. More teams might feel they can get involved with offers and drive up the offering price. The team that has said superstar might be more willing to move player within conference or division due to his low productions and therefore increase the eligible pool of suitors.

Any GM can feel that player can instantly jump into their line-up and benefit their surrounding players.

sell high, buy low is for fantasy hockey, and has little bearing on the reality of the NHL
Well said^.
I wouldn't disregard stats, an important benchmark,entirely.
But more than mere stats go into the equation.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:30 PM
  #61
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Gaborik, Anisimov, Del Zotto for Schenn, Johnson, Simmonds, 2nd

Then Sign Richards on July 1st.

Re-sign Dubi, Cally, Boyle and Sauer.
Re-sign Eminger 1-2 years @ 1 million per

Dubinsky Richards Zuccarello
Wolski Stepan Kreider
Simmonds Schenn Callahan
Prust Boyle Avery
Grachev
Werek

Staal Johnson
McDonagh Girardi
Eminger Sauer
Valentenko
or Vet UFA

Lundqvist
Biron
Thanks no.
Have interest in those guys.
Would prefer to hold on to AA

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:40 PM
  #62
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
In a couple of threads discussing the deadline, I've made the point that I'd do just about any deal that helps the team long-term; the one thing I'm against at this juncture is flipping assets for rentals (and by the way, I'm not saying that rentals are always the wrong way to go - I think Boston, for example is doing them at the right time). This is a young team with lots of promise, but it's still missing key pieces. Furthermore, I think most of us recognize that even if we had those pieces, the young core needs to get a little older, more seasoned and stronger before the team could make a serious run at the Cup. Hence, I feel it's inappropriate to pay anything more than like a 4th round pick or 18th ranked prospect simply to marginally improve our chances of reaching the playoffs this year.

In any event, in laying out examples of the deals I WOULD do, I mentioned four possibilities (please don't critique the examples - they're only meant to illustrate the type of trade I'm talking about in each case):
1) trading peripheral players for assets (e.g. Christensen for a 3rd)
2) trading some of our assets for other assets that we think would be a better fit (e.g. Thomas for Burmistrov)
3) trading a bunch of assets for a major addition in his prime (e.g. Grachev, McIlrath, Werek and a 1st for Nash)
4) taking the flip side of option number 3, i.e. trading Gabby for a king's ransom in assets

Originally, I just threw them out there because strategically I believe those are the the appropriate options for a team at this stage of development. I honestly hadn't really considered much more than option 1 as realistic possibilities. But in the wake of the big Col-Stl trade last night, I don't see why they shouldn't all be in play - including option 4.

I continue to support the Gabby signing as the right move at the time. We got a superstar talent in his prime for an appropriate contract. Although he has somewhat underachieved for us this year, he was great for us last year and I fully believe he will return to his 40 goal level (although it may take a full offseason of recovery before he does).

So, to be clear, I'm not posing the question in the title because I'm down on him for his recent play; rather, it's because I'm no longer sure he fits in the team's growth strategy. When we acquired him, my belief was that the goal was to pair him with one or more other premier players via trade or, more likely, free agency. Meanwhile, the Dubi/Cally/Staal/Girardi core would grow up in their shadow. Unfortunately, since then we've seen one after another of the guys that we thought might be available come off the market. Now we're down to JUST Brad Richards - and he is by no means a safe bet. He's amenable to staying in Dallas if they figure out their ownership situation and there's been news of progress on that front recently. You know that at least LA and Toronto will be serious competitors for his services this summer. And, to top it all off, it looks like he just got a concussion.

So, with all that in mind, I ask a simple question that's been popping into my head more and more recently: would you trade Gabby?

I would seriously consider it. He's 2 years older than Girardi, 3 years older than Callahan & Boyle and at least 4 years older than everyone else we consider core players. By the time these guys are all in or approaching their prime, he'll be on the downside of his career. Would it not therefore make sense to trade him to a team whose core is of an age with Gabby and where he could help push them into contention, in exchange for their up and coming stars who could help fill the holes in our roster so that when our core does come of age in about 2-3 years, we're poised for a nice, long window with a shot at the Cup? It's been suggested before, but LA would be the obvious choice - if we could get something like Schenn, Toffoli and Teubert for him, would you do it?

[By the way, when I first suggested the idea that I'd rather trade Gabby than deal meaningful assets for rentals, one or two people made the comment that "well, if that's the case, you might as well trade Lundqvist as well!" First of all, I'm not against trading anyone in the right deal. With that being said, I don't think they're analogous cases - scoring wingers typically start to decline before (sometimes well before) they hit 35, whereas goalies can continue to play at an all-star level to 40 years of age.]
Kudos on a great thread.
On a quick read, basically agree --- have concern on #3 in bold. That has to be done exactly right. We don't have tons and tons and tons of blue chip prospects although we have a lot of guys who have varying degrees of value that can be moved.
Key is to do something that upgrades talent base, but without overly depleting our depth.
A couple more good drafts from Gord Clark will help with this, but in the meantime, yeah, do #3, but not all #3s are equal in theory...

As for the post ? on Gabby, the answer is conditionally yes, if there is enough "upside". Don't require a massive overpayment here, as some have demanded, particularly as we are shedding a big cap burden contract (unless a Malkin gamble is coming back the other way). But I'm not just for dumping him, so I need some real return. Exactly what would depend upon each differing offer, but I'm inclined to take the best total package, bet it help now, potential in picks/prospects, or a combo.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 12:16 AM
  #63
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,525
vCash: 500
For the right package, yes.

Shenn +
Hickey if he's not broken
is a good start to get me moving.

Teubert, and I'm even more motivated.

vipernsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 12:24 AM
  #64
tjs252
Registered User
 
tjs252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Yeah, I'd definitely trade him! Then we can have threads next year about having us try to target a sniper!

tjs252 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 12:44 AM
  #65
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,405
vCash: 500
The most frustrating thing about Gaborik this season is his feast/famine goal scoring. He's had like only 5 meaningful goals this season (3 in our 6-5W over the Islanders, 1 vs LA 4-3(SO), 1 vs WSH 2-1(SO)). Two come from 1 goal losses. 1 from a 2 goal loss. The rest come in stat padding routes.

I don't get the mentality of posters who'd give up on Gaborik and take a bad package for him.

I equally don't get the mentality of posters who wouldn't give him up for a totally excellent package. Without drawing a direct comparison, EJ landed Stewart + Shattenkirk. St Louis really did a good job addressing some of their biggest needs. EJ has potential to explode, but as of right now, Shattenkirk isn't a big drop from what EJ brought the Blue this season.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 12:50 AM
  #66
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,405
vCash: 500
in regards to getting a center for Gaborik to play with, Brad Richards' recent concussion is unfortunate.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 08:16 AM
  #67
Blueshirt Special
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Blueshirt Special's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,207
vCash: 500
If Gaborik was even close to his pace last year, we'd have probably 2-3 more wins.

There's your breathing room for a playoff spot.

__________________
WIN NOW
Blueshirt Special is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 08:25 AM
  #68
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
If Gaborik was even close to his pace last year, we'd have probably 2-3 more wins.

There's your breathing room for a playoff spot.
I don't want a playoff spot or even breathing room for a playoff spot. I want a either a) a cup contender or b) a team making the moves to become a cup contender. I see exactly one scenario left where keeping Gabby and reaching the SC finals are compatible: signing (a healthy) Richards. If we can't do that, we should absolutely be looking to make deals like trading Gabby for elite prospects.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 08:34 AM
  #69
Blueshirt Special
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Blueshirt Special's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I don't want a playoff spot or even breathing room for a playoff spot. I want a either a) a cup contender or b) a team making the moves to become a cup contender. I see exactly one scenario left where keeping Gabby and reaching the SC finals are compatible: signing (a healthy) Richards. If we can't do that, we should absolutely be looking to make deals like trading Gabby for elite prospects.
I do not disagree. I am merely pointing out how Gabby's lack of production has ultimatley nullified a good effort by the less-than-elite players that make up the rest of the skating roster.

Blueshirt Special is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 10:00 AM
  #70
E-Train
Registered User
 
E-Train's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
For the right package, yes.

Shenn +
Hickey if he's not broken
is a good start to get me moving.

Teubert, and I'm even more motivated.
I would say the Jas price of Schenn, Forbort, Toffoli and a 1st from the other Gaborik trade thread would be the price. I would have taken less but with the prices teams are paying for top talent this makes more sense.

I would have taken Schenn, Teubert, Toffoli and a 2nd before the recent deals.

E-Train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 10:18 AM
  #71
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Train View Post
I would say the Jas price of Schenn, Forbort, Toffoli and a 1st from the other Gaborik trade thread would be the price. I would have taken less but with the prices teams are paying for top talent this makes more sense.

I would have taken Schenn, Teubert, Toffoli and a 2nd before the recent deals.
Yup, sellers' market, combined with Sather likely wanting to be overwhelmed, equals the package I suggested.

jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 12:04 PM
  #72
E-Train
Registered User
 
E-Train's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yup, sellers' market, combined with Sather likely wanting to be overwhelmed, equals the package I suggested.
Exactly. If LA was ever to make a move for Gabby. It would be that type of deal. They are NOT trading roster players like Brown, Johnson or even Simmonds. They need to add to the current team not subtract from.

E-Train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 02:19 PM
  #73
WhiskeyDeke
Shut up, Keith.
 
WhiskeyDeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Va
Country: United States
Posts: 638
vCash: 500
Yes.

Moving forward, if we could get the right return of kids and picks + talent that would serve us better in the next 4-5 seasons then do it. As it stands now, he's 1 guy who appears to be rather enigmatic and brittle. His name still carries visions of end to end rushes and 40+ goals. He may still yet return to that realm, but this team needs to truly commit to a rebuild around the core of:

Stepan
Dubi
Cally
Staal
McDonagh
Anisimov
Kreider
Sauer

It's a painful pill to swallow, but we're not going anywhere in the playoffs with this team. Guts and blocked shots can only go so far.

WhiskeyDeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 02:21 PM
  #74
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,024
vCash: 500
Awards:
I would trade anyone on this team.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2011, 02:58 PM
  #75
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I would trade anyone on this team.
You and me both, but I'd like to maintain as much of the young talent as we can. Our hopes of being 3 years away from contention seem to be turning into a pipe dream.

Barbara Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.