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Old
02-20-2011, 02:53 AM
  #51
AKAY47
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Dean didn't **** up Moulson, Purcell or Boyle. They were all tried on a line with Kopitar at some point and none of them ever worked out, for **** sakes. Purcell and Moulson were both on the PP at some point and Brian Boyle was just in TM's doghouse. None of these guys were able to play in Murray's system, neither was Trevor Lewis until this year, he finally learnt to play physical and use his body. He learnt how to play 2 way hockey, that's what's important to Terry Murray. Matt Moulson, Teddy Purcell and Brian Boyle were all given opportunities to succeed with us but it just didn't work out, simple as that, it wasn't Lombardi's fault? If anything it's Terry Murray's for having the most ****ing ridiculous system in hockey

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02-20-2011, 03:04 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Yes he would have, and this is cause for concern. This team and system has simply had trouble developing skilled forwards.

All some people want to say about guys like Moulson are "He wouldn't do it here" , "Not a DL type player" , "Doing it on a bad team", "One year wonder", "product of Tavares" blah blah blah.

Moulson, Purcell and Boyle all made their NHL debuts in the 07-08 season, all are now gone and enjoying success with their new teams while the Kings struggle to score goals.

None of these guys could ever get it going here, do they shoulder some blame? Absolutely, but it's a bit alarming when three guys who were struggling here go elsewhere and suddenly develop into players. The jury may still be out on Purcell and Boyle but there is no questioning that Moulson is a legit 25-30 goal guy with an elite NHL shot.

What concerns me is the next group, we are already starting to see it with guys like Moller and Loktionov being jerked around. Loktionov being scratched tonight was one of the most pathetic roster moves you will ever see, but sadly we saw the same with the names above as well. Being scratched for guys like Ivanans and Segal. Skating on 4th lines with guys like Zeiler, Ivanans etc.

The Kings are good at developing gritty forwards like Clifford, Simmonds and Lewis, but how many skilled forwards have been developed here in the past five years?

What is going to make Loktionov, Toffoli, Weal, Kitsyn different from these guys?

And just remember, if nothing is done at the deadline because the cost is to high (and I don't want him to overpay). Just remember when this rebuild started we had all these guys, plus Cammalleri on the roster. And the total return for all the assets was Colten Teubert, Jordan Weal and Jeff Halpern.
It certainly is frustrating to see the Kings obvious need in goal scoring go unanswered due to Murray/Lombardi required demand for grit/hard work.

How big would it have been to take a risk and sign Tanguay (hint: a small risk. not a Lombarid player though)? Again and again, its the same story with these fools. They have both done some respectable work here, but its time the Kings took the next step. All they really need is more flexible management, and if Lombardi and Murray cannot then perhaps a change is needed. Hextall and a new coach is worth trying.

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02-20-2011, 03:06 AM
  #53
Belanger25
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Dean didn't **** up Moulson, Purcell or Boyle. They were all tried on a line with Kopitar at some point and none of them ever worked out, for **** sakes. Purcell and Moulson were both on the PP at some point and Brian Boyle was just in TM's doghouse. None of these guys were able to play in Murray's system, neither was Trevor Lewis until this year, he finally learnt to play physical and use his body. He learnt how to play 2 way hockey, that's what's important to Terry Murray. Matt Moulson, Teddy Purcell and Brian Boyle were all given opportunities to succeed with us but it just didn't work out, simple as that, it wasn't Lombardi's fault? If anything it's Terry Murray's for having the most ****ing ridiculous system in hockey
Moulson though had the least amount of time when comparing the three with Purcell and Boyle. Moulson only saw 29 games with the Kings recording 10 points and scoring 6 goals. Not great, but not awful getting a point every 3 games. In comparison

Moulson GP 29, G 6, A 4
Boyle GP 36, G 8, A 2
Purcell GP 81, G 7, A 15

I thought that losing Moulson was a mistake as I always saw the goal scorers touch with him. You may think I'm full of **** but with Moulson I always knew that somehow the puck would end up in the net. Just one of those guys, I feel the same of Oscar Moller. They might not do it with an amazing move but if you give him too many shots or looks he's going to score.

Boyle and Purcell I thought were given a better opportunity than Moulson and with those two they never lived up to potential. You would see it and then it would just go down hill. Purcell was probably more frustrating than Boyle.

I still think the lack of scoring is a combination of a lack of creativity of the forwards and the system that is used in the offensive zone. There are games where it seems like the Kings never go to the front of the net or the center of the ice. Justin Williams is the only guy that will move forward towards the net and put a shot on goal.

Plus I absolutely hate the forecheck used by the Kings. They never pressure with two men and when they have a chance at creating a rush play instead the Kings back off. Drives me insane, you have the ability of some pretty damn good skaters but you have to rush one man into the zone. It's fricken terrible.

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Old
02-20-2011, 03:06 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Anze Kopitar: 3 goals in past 30 games
Dustin Brown: 3 goals in past 24 games
Justin Williams: 6 goals in past 25 games
Ryan Smyth: 5 goals in past 22 games.
Jarret Stoll: 8 goals in past 35 games.
Michal Handzus: 6 goals in past 48 games.

That isn't a lot of offense and there is a lot of inconsistency from the six highest paid forwards on the Kings.
As goes Anze goes the Kings

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02-20-2011, 03:25 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I think he does. Him and his coaching staff are still stuck on that mid-90s era clutch and grab hockey, as evidenced by the talent that has been acquired and the players and lineups that Terry Murray ices. They have established a set system that even highly talented players must conform to. Otherwise they're going to be watching from the press box.

Notice how the Kings have no creativity whatsoever whenever any player handles the puck. It's always stop and go, dump and chase, grind it out and score ugly goals. This team cannot setup an offensive rush that generates a scoring chance. They also lack the talent and ability to score off of rushes and don't have a player with the ability to place a deadly shot coming down the wings.

Additionally, they are also missing a player with the ability to get the puck to the slot. The lack of puck movement and creativity can be attributed to that. Their puck movement is always along the outside boards, never do they try to penetrate through the middle where most goals are generated.

Not only has Lombardi openly stated that if he could have a team full of Mike Ricci's, he would, but he also said that his favorite line when he managed the Sharks was when he had Mike Ricci centering Scott Thornton and Niklas Sundstrom.

I have yet to witness this team find the right balance of talent, grit and speed. Looking at their latest string of success, their wins predicated on team defense, tight games, low scoring contests or wins via shootout.
Is this really true ?????

What happens actually if the opponent team has grinders also who are stronger than our ones ???

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02-20-2011, 03:37 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I think he does. Him and his coaching staff are still stuck on that mid-90s era clutch and grab hockey, as evidenced by the talent that has been acquired and the players and lineups that Terry Murray ices. They have established a set system that even highly talented players must conform to. Otherwise they're going to be watching from the press box.

Notice how the Kings have no creativity whatsoever whenever any player handles the puck. It's always stop and go, dump and chase, grind it out and score ugly goals. This team cannot setup an offensive rush that generates a scoring chance. They also lack the talent and ability to score off of rushes and don't have a player with the ability to place a deadly shot coming down the wings.

Additionally, they are also missing a player with the ability to get the puck to the slot. The lack of puck movement and creativity can be attributed to that. Their puck movement is always along the outside boards, never do they try to penetrate through the middle where most goals are generated.

Not only has Lombardi openly stated that if he could have a team full of Mike Ricci's, he would, but he also said that his favorite line when he managed the Sharks was when he had Mike Ricci centering Scott Thornton and Niklas Sundstrom.

I have yet to witness this team find the right balance of talent, grit and speed. Looking at their latest string of success, their wins predicated on team defense, tight games, low scoring contests or wins via shootout.
This is everything I think and fear summed up in one post. I think Lombardi has done a very good job of giving this team an identity and acquiring many valuable assets, but I wonder if he's the GM for the job, at this stage. Murray is everything that Dean loves in a coach, and while both are good guys and professionals, I think the NHL has changed in a way that necessitates teams to adapt their internal structures and play a faster, more uptempo game. They both seem to be stuck in the lockout. Perhaps both of them are better suited for lesser roles in the future...

I mean, Moller and Loktionov are potential top six forwards, but in this system, they are being used incorrectly because they don't grind it out. Not every forward is grinder. The criticisms that Kopitar has been receiving may hold some truth, but it honestly looks as though his creativity has been sucked dry, because he can't play with flair in this system. He's had slumps and whatnot before, but this looks like a slow death, more than anything else. He's human and he's stuck, it looks like.


Last edited by wicker: 02-20-2011 at 03:44 AM.
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02-20-2011, 03:42 AM
  #57
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i blame brown for the loss.... as captain, he should have manned up and dropped the gloves with weight

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02-20-2011, 03:48 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by verbalkint47 View Post
i blame brown for the loss.... as captain, he should have manned up and dropped the gloves with weight

I'm assuming you didn't watch the game at all.

Weight's been out with an injury and didn't play.

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02-20-2011, 03:57 AM
  #59
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I'm assuming you didn't watch the game at all.

Weight's been out with an injury and didn't play.
pfft.. excuses. he should have grabbed a mic between the 2nd/3rd periods, skated out to center ice (with pyrotechnics in the background) , called out weight, then challenged him to a steel cage death match

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02-20-2011, 06:02 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by verbalkint47 View Post
pfft.. excuses. he should have grabbed a mic between the 2nd/3rd periods, skated out to center ice (with pyrotechnics in the background) , called out weight, then challenged him to a steel cage death match
That actually would have made me happier than watching him fumble around like an idiot out there tonight. In the past 30 games he's had maybe 3 or 4 solid games. Not the consistency you want your captain to have in a tight conference before a playoff push.

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02-20-2011, 10:30 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Dean didn't **** up Moulson, Purcell or Boyle. They were all tried on a line with Kopitar at some point and none of them ever worked out, for **** sakes. Purcell and Moulson were both on the PP at some point and Brian Boyle was just in TM's doghouse. None of these guys were able to play in Murray's system, neither was Trevor Lewis until this year, he finally learnt to play physical and use his body. He learnt how to play 2 way hockey, that's what's important to Terry Murray. Matt Moulson, Teddy Purcell and Brian Boyle were all given opportunities to succeed with us but it just didn't work out, simple as that, it wasn't Lombardi's fault? If anything it's Terry Murray's for having the most ****ing ridiculous system in hockey
You mean that trevor Lewis learned to play 1 way hockey. There isn't any offense in him which is why he is playing now.

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02-20-2011, 10:54 AM
  #62
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Brian Boyle also changed his attitude when he was traded. He had to fight to get on the Rangers roster. They were considering putting him down in the minors when they got him, but he insisted he get a roster spot.

I don't think he ever worked that hard in LA and being traded apparently woke him up.

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02-20-2011, 11:07 AM
  #63
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Its real simple

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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
You mean that trevor Lewis learned to play 1 way hockey. There isn't any offense in him which is why he is playing now.
call the farm and say sent Holloway and Mollar up we need some offence,how much easier could it be ,thats what the rest of the teams do. Hard to figure out this organization,last year it was Modin and Halpern this year Poni and Sturm instead of useing there youth. None of these guys have done anything but steal a spot from our pipeline.There is something wrong somewhere.

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02-20-2011, 11:08 AM
  #64
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Moulson, Boyle, and Purcell all needed to be traded/cut by the Kings in order to wake up. Some of the responsibility falls on LA but those guys were not the same players today that they were when they were here. The same situations have happened to other teams as well. Moulson was even let go by Pittsbugh before he came to LA.

LA is a defense first team with the best GA in the NHL. They have a very prdictable offensive skeem. Kopi needs to drive the net more, we need him to be a number one center and take games over. I want to see him school guys like he did to Pronger in his first game. Where has that Kopi gone? Oh yeah, someone should have destroyed Harmonic!!!

Moller needs a chance next year.

IF we don't add another top 6:

Smyth Kopitar Williams(needs to be resigned)
Parse Schenn Brown
Simmonds Loktionov (Moller)
Clifford Stoll(will be traded at some point next year) Lewis
Westgarth(no more please)

Gone UFA:
Sturm
Poni
Handzus
Richardson (does he have one more year?)

Wildcards:
Toffoli
Kitsyn
Kozun

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Old
02-20-2011, 12:02 PM
  #65
AKAY47
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Watching the highlights now on NHL.com and it just seems to me like we struggle with speedy teams, Montreal, Islanders, Oilers, Phoenix. This is how today's NHL is, you need to have speed coming through the middle, our defenseman, other than the 3 young guys, are sloooooow. Matt Greene and Willie Mitchell are so slow. If we face PHX in the first round, we're going to lose because of their speed

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02-20-2011, 12:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Brian Boyle also changed his attitude when he was traded. He had to fight to get on the Rangers roster. They were considering putting him down in the minors when they got him, but he insisted he get a roster spot.

I don't think he ever worked that hard in LA and being traded apparently woke him up.
They said during the Kings-Rangers game Boyle FINALLY took power skating lessons in the offseason. Playing for a coach like Tortorella can also get guys to play a little harder than Terry Murray's sleep behind the bench personality.

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02-20-2011, 02:42 PM
  #67
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Yes he would have, and this is cause for concern. This team and system has simply had trouble developing skilled forwards.

All some people want to say about guys like Moulson are "He wouldn't do it here" , "Not a DL type player" , "Doing it on a bad team", "One year wonder", "product of Tavares" blah blah blah.

Moulson, Purcell and Boyle all made their NHL debuts in the 07-08 season, all are now gone and enjoying success with their new teams while the Kings struggle to score goals.

None of these guys could ever get it going here, do they shoulder some blame? Absolutely, but it's a bit alarming when three guys who were struggling here go elsewhere and suddenly develop into players. The jury may still be out on Purcell and Boyle but there is no questioning that Moulson is a legit 25-30 goal guy with an elite NHL shot.

What concerns me is the next group, we are already starting to see it with guys like Moller and Loktionov being jerked around. Loktionov being scratched tonight was one of the most pathetic roster moves you will ever see, but sadly we saw the same with the names above as well. Being scratched for guys like Ivanans and Segal. Skating on 4th lines with guys like Zeiler, Ivanans etc.

The Kings are good at developing gritty forwards like Clifford, Simmonds and Lewis, but how many skilled forwards have been developed here in the past five years?

What is going to make Loktionov, Toffoli, Weal, Kitsyn different from these guys?


And just remember, if nothing is done at the deadline because the cost is to high (and I don't want him to overpay). Just remember when this rebuild started we had all these guys, plus Cammalleri on the roster. And the total return for all the assets was Colten Teubert, Jordan Weal and Jeff Halpern.
You can't tell the difference between Loktionov, Toffoli, Vey, Weal, etc. and guys like Clifford, Simmonds, and Lewis? Seriously?

The rebuild was done from the back end out and down the middle. It only makes sense that the position that Lombardi values the least (the wingers) will be the last piece put in place. Of course, people with no patience will continue to harp on "it's been five years" and "Cammy, but Cammy was here." Whatever, water under the bridge, over the dam, or wherever else it went. The Kings have some extra assets on the blueline now to upgrade the wings. No need to overpay with conditions as they are now. The skilled forwards in the system on on their way. Just be happy that the skilled defensemen and goaltenders have already arrived with ample re-inforcements in the pipeline.

TM is probably being too cautious with Loktionov, but the games are getting heavier and he isn't exactly the biggest, strongest kid just yet. He is getting a good taste of what it will take for him to get to the next level and that's fine. I expect he will be a full time NHL'er next season. Loktionov after all has been willing to take the puck to the middle on the attack, something we need more of from a much larger man.

One last question. At this point in time, who on the top six would you replace with Moller?


Last edited by KINGS17: 02-20-2011 at 02:50 PM.
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Old
02-20-2011, 03:21 PM
  #68
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As goes Anze goes the Kings
??? Not really - they've had a very good road trip without much offensive support from Kopitar.

Geez, if he scored a bit more here and there, this team could easily be in 1st in the Pacific.

This is HIS team - he needs to take control and create some offense.

I (and I would assume many) thought he had an outside chance at 45 goals this year. He likely won't even get 30.

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02-20-2011, 03:29 PM
  #69
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Loktionov back to Manchester.

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02-20-2011, 04:23 PM
  #70
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Quick vs Ducks?
Berneir vs Minny?

Maybe Quick will play both....

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02-20-2011, 07:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Moulson, Boyle, and Purcell all needed to be traded/cut by the Kings in order to wake up. Some of the responsibility falls on LA but those guys were not the same players today that they were when they were here. The same situations have happened to other teams as well. Moulson was even let go by Pittsbugh before he came to LA.

LA is a defense first team with the best GA in the NHL. They have a very prdictable offensive skeem. Kopi needs to drive the net more, we need him to be a number one center and take games over. I want to see him school guys like he did to Pronger in his first game. Where has that Kopi gone? Oh yeah, someone should have destroyed Harmonic!!!

Moller needs a chance next year.

IF we don't add another top 6:

Smyth Kopitar Williams(needs to be resigned)
Parse Schenn Brown
Simmonds Loktionov (Moller)
Clifford Stoll(will be traded at some point next year) Lewis
Westgarth(no more please)

Gone UFA:
Sturm
Poni
Handzus
Richardson (does he have one more year?)

Wildcards:
Toffoli
Kitsyn
Kozun
Yes.

Well said and pretty much right on.

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02-21-2011, 12:41 PM
  #72
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Kings looked really tired and sore with stiff legs. I actually started laughing when Doughty started tripping over his legs. And Kopitar looked like he was skating in sand. Is he hiding an injury?

Did anyone see Kopitar and Kompon talking on the bench during the third period? Looked like they were disagreeing about something?

Fox said something towards the end of the game, like "I know why they are playing like this." Maybe they just partied too hard the night before?

I think the break between games really screwed them up.

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02-21-2011, 01:15 PM
  #73
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Kings looked really tired and sore with stiff legs. I actually started laughing when Doughty started tripping over his legs. And Kopitar looked like he was skating in sand. Is he hiding an injury?

Did anyone see Kopitar and Kompon talking on the bench during the third period? Looked like they were disagreeing about something?

Fox said something towards the end of the game, like "I know why they are playing like this." Maybe they just partied too hard the night before?

I think the break between games really screwed them up.
Aside from theories... more times than not any team with a 9 game road trip is going to mail in that last game. I realize ANA is technically a road game as well, but not in the psychological sense.

It was their 3rd game in 4 nights, they clearly weren't mentally or physically in it and the outcome while disappointing, wasn't surprising at all.

The Kings had 10 losses to give (to get to 95 points which will get them in the playoffs at this moment) at the start of this 10 game road trip. Through wins and OTL's, they only used up 2 of those regulation losses. That's pretty amazing.

They have to wind up going 12-8-3 or better in their last 23 to make the playoffs. That is certainly doable.


Last edited by TonySCV: 02-21-2011 at 01:20 PM.
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02-21-2011, 01:22 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
...It was their 3rd game in 4 nights, they clearly weren't mentally or physically in it and the outcome while disappointing, wasn't surprising at all.
my bad... I thought they had two days off before the NYI game and tightened up on that extra day. They just looked gassed.

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