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Avery- Where'd you go?

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Old
02-20-2011, 04:19 PM
  #26
BrandNewDream
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I knew all of the excuses coming in here, but they're NOT excuses. He hasn't worked hard, he hasn't stirred it up, and hasn't tried anything. Is that ALL on Torts? Is that ALL on the refs? No.

Rob, you can retort and defend Avery now, if you'd like.

It would have been lovely to have Avery step in and play Prust's game while Prust is dealing with whatever is ailing him. But we didn't see that.

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02-20-2011, 04:20 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
I like Avery and what he brings to the table when he's going alot. I think the problem with Avery is two-fold

1)Tortorella has all but nuetered him, he has been pretty much minimally effective since Torts took over. If people don't see the correlation I don't know what to say...

2)Sean is a very selfish player that doesn't have the same team first approach of alot of guys on this team and in the league. No matter what issues he has with the coach, no matter how he has to tweak his game to fit his coaches system/ideal, as a PROFESSIONAL he must do his best to meet the expoectations of the coach.

I'll blame Torts all day for misusing Avery, but Avery has to be held accountable for his own poor play. Sure, its become common sense to everyone but the coach that this guy needs to walk the line to be effective, but Torts can't be blamed for this guy not engaging, finishing his checks, and using his speed more consistently.
As I was reading your post, I started to think, here we go again with the excuses for Avery, but the rest of it balanced out and was spot on...

I just don't get how hard-nosed players who like to forecheck and grind like Callahan and Dubinsky, can thrive in this type of environment under Tortorella and fit into our overall game plan flawlessly, yet Avery, who plays a similar game, is seemingly lost.... Both Callahan and Dubinsky were on track for 60 points this season, minus the injuries...Dubinsky may still get there.... Leads me to believe the problem is not the coach... You still see Dubinsky and Callahan out there mucking it up after the whistle and getting in peoples' faces... Avery can do that too and not take penalties or hurt the team, he's just not focused.

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02-20-2011, 04:20 PM
  #28
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I forgot to mention though, Sean Avery is not the problem with this team. The 6-7 forwards on the team that I EXPECT to be scoring goals that aren't are more of a problem in my opinion...

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02-20-2011, 04:23 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
I knew all of the excuses coming in here, but they're NOT excuses. He hasn't worked hard, he hasn't stirred it up, and hasn't tried anything. Is that ALL on Torts? Is that ALL on the refs? No.

Rob, you can retort and defend Avery now, if you'd like.

It would have been lovely to have Avery step in and play Prust's game while Prust is dealing with whatever is ailing him. But we didn't see that.

I'm sorry, but if you don't think Avery hasn't worked hard then your opinion is completely null and void.

Unbelievable how many people that post on here don't watch the games.


And Prust can pull the same exact things that Sean does but will get the benefit of the doubt because he has the respect of the players and the refs.

Its' not hard to understand.

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02-20-2011, 04:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
As I was reading your post, I started to think, here we go again with the excuses for Avery, but the rest of it balanced out and was spot on...

I just don't get how hard-nosed players who like to forecheck and grind like Callahan and Dubinsky, can thrive in this type of environment under Tortorella and fit into our overall game plan flawlessly, yet Avery, who plays a similar game, is seemingly lost.... Both Callahan and Dubinsky were on track for 60 points this season, minus the injuries...Dubinsky may still get there.... Leads me to believe the problem is not the coach... You still see Dubinsky and Callahan out there mucking it up after the whistle and getting in peoples' faces... Avery can do that too and not take penalties or hurt the team, he's just not focused.
Dubinsky and Callahan don't have their coach telling them not to.

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02-20-2011, 04:23 PM
  #31
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I think it's a mix of everything. It's...
  1. The league
  2. Torts
  3. Avery

all put together into one big crapfest that has slowed down the Avery we all want to see.

However, I find it disgusting that after a lot of games this season a lot of you guys are on Avery, he's not the only one out their not playing to his potential but he is always singled out on this board. I'll give you that I'm one of Avery's biggest defenders and think he's a key component to this team's success, but where was Prust tonight? Boyle? Christensen? Prospal? Anisimov?

Stop singling out Avery.

Anyways onto my first part. I know Torts has gone on the record saying that he hasn't held Sean back but that's just a farce, he has. But it's not all on Torts here. Remember a few games back where Avery was quoted saying how HE KNOWS he has a different set of rules and can never get an explanation from the refs? Well, it's obvious that that is true. He doesn't draw the penalties he used to anymore because he can't due to the refs. And he was drawing those penalties by being a pain in the ass which he now seems hesitant to do because he knows he'll more likely get a call on him and take a penalty (fear of Torts) rather than draw a penalty.

I disagree wholly with the thought that Avery is a selfish player, we all saw him yelling at the bench during the Kings game, and we won that one.

He's a different player because he has to be. I would love to see Torts let him run wild during a game as a big F U to the league. Let him sit at the end of the bench and yell across to the other team. Let him do what he does and the production is gonna come.

We need the X-factor that he can be and Torts has held him back since Tortorella got here (see: Game 6 VS Capitals).

/endrant


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02-20-2011, 04:26 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan don't have their coach telling them not to.
And Dubinsky and Callahan also have the respect of the referees and won't get called for that stuff.

Avery will.

And has a million times in the past.

How people like Wolf can say this stuff in these threads and not pick up on that is mind boggling.

The only thing that makes any sense is these people aren't watching the games closely.

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02-20-2011, 04:27 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan don't have their coach telling them not to.
Pretty sure the coach doesn't want any Ranger player putting the team short-handed... Show me some evidence that Avery is held to a different standard than the rest of the players on the roster... "Everybody go mix it up, except you Sean"....

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02-20-2011, 04:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
As I was reading your post, I started to think, here we go again with the excuses for Avery, but the rest of it balanced out and was spot on...

I just don't get how hard-nosed players who like to forecheck and grind like Callahan and Dubinsky, can thrive in this type of environment under Tortorella and fit into our overall game plan flawlessly, yet Avery, who plays a similar game, is seemingly lost.... Both Callahan and Dubinsky were on track for 60 points this season, minus the injuries...Dubinsky may still get there.... Leads me to believe the problem is not the coach... You still see Dubinsky and Callahan out there mucking it up after the whistle and getting in peoples' faces... Avery can do that too and not take penalties or hurt the team, he's just not focused.
Because Cally and Dubi have heart!

I'm afraid what Sean has is just Ego....unfortunatley..because like I said I was a fan of Avery under Renney.

It's well known around here that I'm not really a Torts fan, I feel like he's forcing our team to be something its not. And I can admit because of that I am biased. I think in this situation I am doing my best to try and see it from all angles though.

I think were both right. I think Avery could be used more effectively, and I think Avery needs to be accountable for his lack of focus and consistency.

As much as I've mentione Torts misusing him, I can also say that Torts has given him plenty of minutes on nights where he looks engaged.

Its almost funny, I feel like Torts would say "I'll give Sean minutes when he's going and engaged"

And Sean would say "I need the minutes and big spots more often to stay engaged"

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02-20-2011, 04:29 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I think it's a mix of everything. It's...
  1. The league
  2. Torts
  3. Avery

all put together into one big crapfest that has slowed down the Avery we all want to see.

However, I find it disgusting that after a lot of games this season a lot of you guys are on Avery, he's not the only one out their not playing to his potential but he is always singled out on this board. I'll give you that I'm one of Avery's biggest defenders and think he's a key component to this team's success, but where was Prust tonight? Boyle? Christensen? Prospal? Anisimov?

Stop singling out Avery.

Anyways onto my first part. I know Torts has gone on the record saying that he hasn't held Sean back but that's just a farce, he has. But it's not all on Torts here. Remember a few games back where Avery was quoted saying how HE KNOWS he has a different set of rules and can never get an explanation from the refs? Well, it's obvious that that is true. He doesn't draw the penalties he used to anymore because he can't due to the refs. And he was drawing those penalties by being a pain in the ass which he now seems hesitant to do because he knows he'll more likely get a call on him and take a penalty (fear of Torts) rather than draw a penalty.

I disagree wholly with the thought that Avery is a selfish player, we all saw him yelling at the bench during the Kings game, and we won that one.

He's a different player because he has to be. I would love to see Torts let him run wild during a game as a big F U to the league. Let him sit at the end of the bench and yell across to the other team. Let him do what he does and the production is gonna come.

We need the X-factor that he can be and Torts has held him back since Tortorella got here (see: Game 6 VS Capitals).

/endrant



Pretty much explains it. But the anti-Avery crowd only sees what they want to see.

I've never been someone saying he's more than a 4th liner. But damn, the guy deserves defending against the idiots who watch this team and this league and just don't pay attention.

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02-20-2011, 04:30 PM
  #36
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whatever the reason, I think he's gone next year.

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02-20-2011, 04:30 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Because Cally and Dubi have heart!

I'm afraid what Sean has is just Ego....unfortunatley..because like I said I was a fan of Avery under Renney.

It's well known around here that I'm not really a Torts fan, I feel like he's forcing our team to be something its not. And I can admit because of that I am biased. I think in this situation I am doing my best to try and see it from all angles though.

I think were both right. I think Avery could be used more effectively, and I think Avery needs to be accountable for his lack of focus and consistency.

As much as I've mentione Torts misusing him, I can also say that Torts has given him plenty of minutes on nights where he looks engaged.

Its almost funny, I feel like Torts would say "I'll give Sean minutes when he's going and engaged"

And Sean would say "I need the minutes and big spots more often to stay engaged"
Agreed.

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02-20-2011, 04:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
The only thing that makes any sense is these people aren't watching the games closely.
I guess that applies to last year as well? And the numerous other threads that have come up in the past few months? And in the pre-season when there were questions as to whether Avery even belonged on the roster this year?

Because you've rushed in to defend him in every single one.

Maybe it's not that we're watching the games peripherally, but moreso that you're watching the games with a biased view?

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02-20-2011, 04:31 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Pretty sure the coach doesn't want any Ranger player putting the team short-handed... Show me some evidence that Avery is held to a different standard than the rest of the players on the roster... "Everybody go mix it up, except you Sean"....
You're joking right?

Read between the lines you biased lunatic.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/ranger...bWrpxMG7tZ0PAK

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02-20-2011, 04:32 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Pretty sure the coach doesn't want any Ranger player putting the team short-handed... Show me some evidence that Avery is held to a different standard than the rest of the players on the roster... "Everybody go mix it up, except you Sean"....
Dubinsky and Callahan play feisty games on a regular basis. Avery plays one and then never follows it up with another. Sometimes it's within games. Either Avery has forgotten how to agitate, which I doubt (skills deteriorate, not personality) or he's being reined in.

Put it this way. With Renney, you would see Avery out on the ice the very next shift after waving around at Brodeur with his back to the play. With Tortorella, Avery would get very little ice time the rest of the game. We know this to be true because we've seen it happen.

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02-20-2011, 04:32 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
And Dubinsky and Callahan also have the respect of the referees and won't get called for that stuff.Avery will.

And has a million times in the past.

How people like Wolf can say this stuff in these threads and not pick up on that is mind boggling.

The only thing that makes any sense is these people aren't watching the games closely.
But, Sean has made his own bed with the Ref's. While I think it's unprofessional of them to look beyond whats going on right now in the game, we know the professionalism of NHL referees is at an all time low.

I'm an Avery/Renney guy, but Sean could be doing more for the team right now, even though he is being used improperly (IMO)

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02-20-2011, 04:34 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan play feisty games on a regular basis. Avery plays one and then never follows it up with another. Sometimes it's within games. Either Avery has forgotten how to agitate, which I doubt (skills deteriorate, not personality) or he's being reined in.

Put it this way. With Renney, you would see Avery out on the ice the very next shift after waving around at Brodeur with his back to the play. With Tortorella, Avery would get very little ice time the rest of the game. We know this to be true because we've seen it happen.

NOOOOOOO it's because Sean isn't good and shoots too much.

You can't use facts to discuss Avery.

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02-20-2011, 04:35 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
I guess that applies to last year as well? And the numerous other threads that have come up in the past few months? And in the pre-season when there were questions as to whether Avery even belonged on the roster this year?

Because you've rushed in to defend him in every single one.

Maybe it's not that we're watching the games peripherally, but moreso that you're watching the games with a biased view?
I think that may only reinforce the idea that under Tortorella, Avery has been ineffective...

There is no denying how much of a spark plug this guy was under Renney right?

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02-20-2011, 04:36 PM
  #44
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Avery play has been fine. He has 21 points playing a 4th line role this season. He is skating hard, he hits and will stick up for his teammates. He scores his goals by being around the net. He hasn't been doing that as much because he is always trying to setup his linemates. Anyway if you are looking for goal scoring from Avery thats when you know your team has major issues.

I agree that his agitating part of his game is gone so he isn't as effective as he once was. But he is still playing hard and is fine playing an energy type role on this team.

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02-20-2011, 04:37 PM
  #45
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Avery is a 4th liner, put him out there for 10 minutes and don't reign him in and we'll see the old Sean. Him, Prust and Boyle should be our 4th line next year, and its a damn good one too.

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02-20-2011, 04:38 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan play feisty games on a regular basis. Avery plays one and then never follows it up with another. Sometimes it's within games. Either Avery has forgotten how to agitate, which I doubt (skills deteriorate, not personality) or he's being reined in.
That's on the player... Torts is a carrot & stick guy... Whatever players are going are rewarded with more ice time... That's why we've seen so much of the Feds - Boyle - Prust combo this year, they've been great, despite being mostly 3rd/4th liners...

Quote:
Put it this way. With Renney, you would see Avery out on the ice the very next shift after waving around at Brodeur with his back to the play. With Tortorella, Avery would get very little ice time the rest of the game. We know this to be true because we've seen it happen.
That B.S. with Brodeur is the type of business that would put us short-handed in a game... Brodeur gets a call anytime he's brushed, and every ref in the league is focusing on Avery and Brodeur when they're out on the ice after the past shennanigans... If I was a coach, I wouldn't want that behavior either... Even Drury was telling Avery to stop that **** when he was screening Brodeur.... If the coach really had it out for Avery, I fail to see how he would have been extended numerous opportunities to play on our top line... Seems pretty strange he would even get that opportunity if the coach was out to get him...

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02-20-2011, 04:40 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
I guess that applies to last year as well? And the numerous other threads that have come up in the past few months? And in the pre-season when there were questions as to whether Avery even belonged on the roster this year?

Because you've rushed in to defend him in every single one.

Maybe it's not that we're watching the games peripherally, but moreso that you're watching the games with a biased view?
Not at all. I read this board because I love the Rangers but if I'm looking for intelligence this would be the last place I'd go.

It's also obvious that the minority is always the vocal group. So because four of you start threads about the guy and most people are so sick of it they don't feel the need to comment says nothing about me.

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02-20-2011, 04:40 PM
  #48
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When his contract is up after next season, we can expect him to join the cast of Hockey Night Live for the 2012-13 season.

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02-20-2011, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
But, Sean has made his own bed with the Ref's. While I think it's unprofessional of them to look beyond whats going on right now in the game, we know the professionalism of NHL referees is at an all time low.

I'm an Avery/Renney guy, but Sean could be doing more for the team right now, even though he is being used improperly (IMO)

I completely agree with you but that further emphasizes my point why it's obvious that he's had to reign it in.

HE IS HELD TO A DOUBLE STANDARD. It's clear as day.

And if he were being "Old Sean" and taking penalties for it can you imagine the outrage by these same people criticizing him for toning it down?

I don't disagree he has made his own bed with the refs, but that's no excuse for idiots on here to be blind to the BS calls/non calls he gets.

Show some discretion people and call it like it is. It's amazing how people allow their bias to cloud their opinions on this stuff.

Do people really think Sean makes up things like what he said the other day? Where he told the media that refs tell him to "go **** himself" when he asks what he did?

They really think he makes it up for the hell of it?

It is what it is and it's clear as day.

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02-20-2011, 04:48 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
That's on the player... Torts is a carrot & stick guy... Whatever players are going are rewarded with more ice time... That's why we've seen so much of the Feds - Boyle - Prust combo this year, they've been great, despite being mostly 3rd/4th liners...



That B.S. with Brodeur is the type of business that would put us short-handed in a game... Brodeur gets a call anytime he's brushed, and every ref in the league is focusing on Avery and Brodeur when they're out on the ice after the past shennanigans... If I was a coach, I wouldn't want that behavior either... Even Drury was telling Avery to stop that **** when he was screening Brodeur.... If the coach really had it out for Avery, I fail to see how he would have been extended numerous opportunities to play on our top line... Seems pretty strange he would even get that opportunity if the coach was out to get him...
Not saying the coach is out to get him at all. In truth, I'm agreeing with what you're saying about Tortorella being a carrot and stick guy. However, I whole-heartedly disagree with the notion that you should motivate all of your players in the same way. Some guys require some one-on-one time. Some guys require a show of faith that your game brings value to the team. Avery is the latter for sure. And he's stubborn, which means that he's not about to find other ways to be effective. Is some of that on Avery? Sure. A coach's job is to find the right seat on the bus for a player and utilize him there to the best of that player's ability. Tortorella clearly does not see a seat on the bus for the Avery that gave the Rangers such a different edge when under Renney. Then again, this is a very different team than that one. Avery was the one emotional player on a team of low key professionals. Now he's one of a few emotional players and some of those guys are more important to the score sheet than he is.

My whole point here is that Avery's issues do stem from his relationship with Tortorella, but having the old Renney-era Avery back wouldn't necessarily be the best thing for this team.

And robruckus... put down the whiskey glass.

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