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Toronto - Edmonton

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:06 PM
  #26
victor
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Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post
I won't mind adding a 2nd to this deal if Edmonton fans wish.

The fact is that every year people say the upcoming draft isn't as deep in talent, but talented prospects still emerge. This year's draft supposedly has a weak top 10, but the depth is there.

The fact that Hemsky has another year on his deal makes me willing to include the 2nd as well. He's a difference maker when healthy, and Toronto needs a top 6 forward, rather than to rely on Brad Richards to sign with us, which is possible, but far from a sure thing.

Toronto should cover its back via trade beforehand, and UFA is free-for-all anyway.

Gardiner
Bozak
1st '11
2nd '11
Gardiner, B. Jenner, Michael St. Croix for Hemsky and paying Bozak's salary to the end of the year?

Wouldn't Edmonton be better off with the 50 points Hemsky will have between now and the trade deadline next year? If he doesn't sign, trade him for picks and prospects. Given that the 2011 draft is as weak as it is, a late 2011 1st and 2011 2nd are lottery tickets. Toronto should keep them.

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post
Trust me, you'd rather have Bozak. He's a solid 3rd line C anyway, and displaying very strong two-way ability. He's got potential to score. It's evident. This year might just be a infamous sophomore slump.
Toronto should resign him. They believe in him.

Others, not so much.

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:23 PM
  #28
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Although I would pass on this Deal Gardiner is a great dman prospect . And a bigger Shattenkirk with same offense capability Imo . Anaheim traded him only because the have Sbisa and needed expereinced d help now in a desperate playoff race. and jumpin from less than .50 ppg to over a ppg in ncaa for defenceman is a huge step forward in progress. Oiler fans are underating this guy . But at same time Hemsky is probably the most undervalued player on hf boards.

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:33 PM
  #29
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post


Ales Hemsky



1st '11 (choice between PHI or BOS 1st)
Tyler Bozak
Jake Gardiner

Why Toronto does this?

Signed to a contract for next season, Ales Hemsky (if healthy) gives Toronto a very capable top 6 forward who is a great PP guy. With the loss of Tomas Kaberle, Toronto severely lacks play makers on PP, and Hemsky would be a very good one. He provides scoring depth that Toronto lacks as well. Watching Toronto's PP against Ottawa last night was horrific, and I believe, more than a big, gritty winger, this team needs a catalyst on the PP. Special teams have been down in the dumps since the lockout and we need to fill that void ASAP.

Why Edmonton does this?

This is a pretty big price to pay from Toronto's perspective. Edmonton, rebuilding will likely require a 1st round pick coming back, and taking Toronto's (BOS or PHI) 1st rounder won't be as different as, say Kings' or Penguins'. On top of that Toronto sends a pretty good prospect who projects as a top 4 defenseman, and a player who can play right away for Edmonton in Tyler Bozak (who has potential to be a top 6 forward on top of that).
Sorry OP, but IMO this proposal is a fail on more than one level.

1. The Leafs just recently acquired Gardiner (a puck-moving OFD which they desperately need); they would be very stupid to try to flip him in any deal at this point in time.

2. While Bozak has been MIA offensively this season, his defensive game has improved and he has become one of the Leafs' best PK'ers. He'll likely be qualified for next season at a very affordable price and become the Leafs' 3rd line center as he has developed some really good chemistry with Armstrong.

3. Even though the two 1st round picks (from BOS & PHI) are very likely to both be quite late in a purportedly 'weak' draft, they are still valuable assets to the Leafs. The picks will either be used at the Draft to acquire new prospects or they will be used in a package deal for a young NHL-ready top-6 forward.

4. The price for Hemsky is likely too high for the Leafs to handle and would likely cost the Leafs assets that they don't want/can't afford to trade away. Hemsky is no doubt a good player, but he is also somewhat injury-prone. Furthermore, the Leafs don't have a spot for him on the right wing. If Hemsky were a capable center, then maybe he'd be worth it for the Leafs, but I don't believe he is.

All in all, just a bad proposal.

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Sorry OP, but IMO this proposal is a fail on more than one level.

1. The Leafs just recently acquired Gardiner (a puck-moving OFD which they desperately need); they would be very stupid to try to flip him in any deal at this point in time.

2. While Bozak has been MIA offensively this season, his defensive game has improved and he has become one of the Leafs' best PK'ers. He'll likely be qualified for next season at a very affordable price and become the Leafs' 3rd line center as he has developed some really good chemistry with Armstrong.

3. Even though the two 1st round picks (from BOS & PHI) are very likely to both be quite late in a purportedly 'weak' draft, they are still valuable assets to the Leafs. The picks will either be used at the Draft to acquire new prospects or they will be used in a package deal for a young NHL-ready top-6 forward.

4. The price for Hemsky is likely too high for the Leafs to handle and would likely cost the Leafs assets that they don't want/can't afford to trade away. Hemsky is no doubt a good player, but he is also somewhat injury-prone. Furthermore, the Leafs don't have a spot for him on the right wing. If Hemsky were a capable center, then maybe he'd be worth it for the Leafs, but I don't believe he is.

All in all, just a bad proposal.
Hemsky can play LW as well, I think.

1. Your first point just stated that the reason we won't move Gardiner is because we just acquired him. Yes, he's a PMD that we need, but so is a guy like Jesse Blacker who is also developing very nicely in our system.

2. Bozak has looked solid in a checking role, I agree, but I'd rather get someone else to kill penalties. I am not denying that Bozak has the skill to become a top 6 forward, but I'm just saying that becoming a good penalty killer on a team with a terrible PK overall isn't a great accomplishment.

3. 2 1st rounders are always valuable, but you have to give to get, always.

4. I agree Hemmer is injury prone, but he's one hell of a player when healthy and a great play maker. Our PP will benefit a lot from his addition. And he's only 27, so its not like we're adding an aging veteran to our core.

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:57 PM
  #31
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Penner for both 1st and Gardiner

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:01 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post
Hemsky can play LW as well, I think.

1. Your first point just stated that the reason we won't move Gardiner is because we just acquired him. Yes, he's a PMD that we need, but so is a guy like Jesse Blacker who is also developing very nicely in our system.

2. Bozak has looked solid in a checking role, I agree, but I'd rather get someone else to kill penalties. I am not denying that Bozak has the skill to become a top 6 forward, but I'm just saying that becoming a good penalty killer on a team with a terrible PK overall isn't a great accomplishment.

3. 2 1st rounders are always valuable, but you have to give to get, always.

4. I agree Hemmer is injury prone, but he's one hell of a player when healthy and a great play maker. Our PP will benefit a lot from his addition. And he's only 27, so its not like we're adding an aging veteran to our core.
Gardiner's a great prospect - but given Edmonton's current team, with Whitney, Gilbert, Petry, Chorney, Marincin, Blain, and others, not really needed. Edmonton needs quality prospects and draft picks - Bozak (of whom I've already expressed an opinion,) Gardiner and a couple of (poor, IMO) lottery tickets isn't great.

How about Hemsky for Toronto's 1st in 2012 and 2013?

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post
I won't mind adding a 2nd to this deal if Edmonton fans wish.

The fact is that every year people say the upcoming draft isn't as deep in talent, but talented prospects still emerge. This year's draft supposedly has a weak top 10, but the depth is there.

The fact that Hemsky has another year on his deal makes me willing to include the 2nd as well. He's a difference maker when healthy, and Toronto needs a top 6 forward, rather than to rely on Brad Richards to sign with us, which is possible, but far from a sure thing.

Toronto should cover its back via trade beforehand, and UFA is free-for-all anyway.

Gardiner
Bozak
1st '11
2nd '11
With all due respect, I'm glad you're not the Leafs' GM because this is even worse for the Leafs than your previous attempt.

The Leafs would be stupid to throw away that kind of package for a player they neither need nor have room for on the roster.

Bozak, as previously stated, will be an excellent 3rd line center and PK'er. Gardiner may (or may not) leave the NCAA this summer to become a Toronto Marlie for next season; either way, he's currently the best puck-moving OFD in the system and is desperately needed by the Leafs going forward. The two 1st rounders are very valuable to the Leafs, regardless of the overall quality of next summer's Draft class. Gems can be found anywhere in any Draft, and throwing picks away for an unneeded player is just stupid.

The Leafs are not a team that is so deep that they can afford to throw good picks and prospects away.

Sorry, but I think that you're terribly impatient and are trying to force a square peg into a non-existant round hole here.


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Old
02-20-2011, 11:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by oilers4life5 View Post
Penner for both 1st and Gardiner
Can't do that. I like Penner, and might give up one 1st to get him, but not both. There is always talent available, and both those 1st rounders can be packaged to move up, as Burke noted he'll try to do.

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:03 PM
  #35
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oh god, id hate to see hemsky in a leafs uniform

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02-20-2011, 11:04 PM
  #36
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I usually try to stay away from the argument threads but I just don't see Hemsky having this much value...but he is very good

And I don't think people understand that Bozak only gets .875 mill and would be a very skilled 3rd line center, fast, defensively responsible, great on the faceoff, and amazing vision for his age.

A 1st in a weak draft has little value seeing that we got one and a 3rd for Versteeg

And Gardiner has pretty high potential and is believed to only be ready in a years time.

I personally wouldn't do it for Hemsky but thats because I feel those pieces would be better added to a package for a center, if that were possible. Otherwise stock the cupboards and see what happens.

I have little confidence in Hemsky resigning with either the Leafs or Oilers

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:07 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Hotlanta View Post
I usually try to stay away from the argument threads but I just don't see Hemsky having this much value...but he is very good

And I don't think people understand that Bozak only gets .875 mill and would be a very skilled 3rd line center, fast, defensively responsible, great on the faceoff, and amazing vision for his age.

A 1st in a weak draft has little value seeing that we got one and a 3rd for Versteeg

And Gardiner has pretty high potential and is believed to only be ready in a years time.

I personally wouldn't do it for Hemsky but thats because I feel those pieces would be better added to a package for a center, if that were possible. Otherwise stock the cupboards and see what happens.

I have little confidence in Hemsky resigning with either the Leafs or Oilers
So you seem like you have no idea what you`re talking about.

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:07 PM
  #38
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With all due respect, I'm glad you're not the Leafs' GM because this is even worse for the Leafs than your previous attempt.

The Leafs would be stupid to throw away that kind of package away for a player they neither need nor have room for on the roster.

Bozak, as previously stated, will be an excellent 3rd line center and PK'er. Gardiner may (or may not) leave the NCAA this summer to become a Toronto Marlie for next season; either way, he's currently the best puck-moving OFD in the system and is desperately needed by the Leafs going forward. The two 1st rounders are very valuable to the Leafs, regardless of the overall quality of next summer's Draft class. Gems can be found anywhere in any Draft, and throwing picks away for an unneeded player is just stupid.

The Leafs are not a team that is so deep that they can afford to throw good picks and prospects away.

Sorry, but I think that you're terribly impatient and are trying to force a square peg into a non-existant round hole here.
He's a top 6 forward. We need maybe two more of those to become more competitive. I strongly disagree that we don't have a need for a guy like Hemsky on our team. Every team could use a top 6 forward, and the Leafs more so than others.

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:37 PM
  #39
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Does that really alter his value?
Nah yo, 35 points in 34 games is obviously the same thing as 13 points in 41 games.

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02-20-2011, 11:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post
Hemsky can play LW as well, I think.

1. Your first point just stated that the reason we won't move Gardiner is because we just acquired him. Yes, he's a PMD that we need, but so is a guy like Jesse Blacker who is also developing very nicely in our system.

2. Bozak has looked solid in a checking role, I agree, but I'd rather get someone else to kill penalties. I am not denying that Bozak has the skill to become a top 6 forward, but I'm just saying that becoming a good penalty killer on a team with a terrible PK overall isn't a great accomplishment.

3. 2 1st rounders are always valuable, but you have to give to get, always.

4. I agree Hemmer is injury prone, but he's one hell of a player when healthy and a great play maker. Our PP will benefit a lot from his addition. And he's only 27, so its not like we're adding an aging veteran to our core.
Even if Hemsky can play LW, where would the Leafs put him? All of the winger-slots are currently filled, so unless you plan on trading someone away, there'll be no room. Also, don't forget about the Kadri project; nobody knows for sure what NHL position he'll play whenever he happens to make it (assuming he does).

1. Yes, Blacker is also a good young puck-moving OFD like Gardiner, but neither one is NHL-ready yet. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, perennial play-off teams employ more than one puck-moving OFD, which is one of the main reasons why the Leafs' defence has sucked badly offensively for the last few years. Therefore, both Gardiner and Blacker need to be kept by the Leafs if the Leafs want to have a balanced and mobile back-end in the future.

2. Fair enough. However, if the Leafs are going to get better on the PK, the players they currently have need to be better coached and the goaltending is going to have to be up to snuff as well.

3. I've known for quite some time that you've got to give to get. You've also got to be willing to give what the other team wants in order to get what you want from them, not things they feel are inferior in some way to what they currently have. Right now is not the proper time for the Leafs to be moving out 1st or 2nd round picks, even if they're from a 'weak' draft. At any rate, everything you've offered up is still far more useful to the Leafs than the Oilers.

4. Fair enough, but improving the Leafs' horrific PP can also be achieved through better coaching, which is by far cheaper than spending multple assets to acquire a good (albeit injury-prone) winger who is entering his prime. Remember, you can't benefit your team very much if you're spending large chunks of the season in the infirmary.

The Leafs and the Oilers just aren't good trading partners right now.

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:48 PM
  #41
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Nah yo, 35 points in 34 games is obviously the same thing as 13 points in 41 games.
How many times do you think posting this will make Gardiner, a good PMD, combined with Bozak at (minimum 915K) an addition, and a 26th-30th pick (Perhaps David Musil, if still available.) worth Hemsky?

Is Kulemin worth Cogliano, Chorney, and Edmonton's 2nd?

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02-20-2011, 11:49 PM
  #42
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So you seem like you have no idea what you`re talking about.
Obviously not.

So Bozak isn't a future third line Center? Late 1st rounder this year doesn't have as high value as the past? and Gardiner won't get an NHL game in, in the next year if of course he decides to sign a pro contract?

I don't think Toronto will do this for a player who doesn't fill a hole in the team, and we have many holes, despite how good Hemsky is, as I stated before.

Burke would more likely add to that package and go after a number 1 center, Never said he would be successful.

And I really do not believe Hemsky would be a guarantee resigning in TO

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02-20-2011, 11:51 PM
  #43
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How many times do you think posting this will make Gardiner, a good PMD, combined with Bozak at (minimum 915K) an addition, and a 26th-30th pick (Perhaps David Musil, if still available.) worth Hemsky?

Is Kulemin worth Cogliano, Chorney, and Edmonton's 2nd?
lol wtf? i didn't even post this proposal buddy.

You made a mistake by saying Gardiner has 13 points in 41 games...I corrected you, you replied with a very stupid comment.


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02-20-2011, 11:52 PM
  #44
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Toronto and Edmonton are almost in the exact same position.

If Hemsky (with a better corps of forwards to boot!) doesn't help Edmonton out of the basement, why would anyone believe he'd help Toronto?

He's basically Tomas Kaberle as a forward- but much more injury prone. Burke won't trade his assets for a winger upgrade, it'll be towards a center like Weiss.

This makes zero sense for either team. It's like asking if Ottawa should trade picks/prospects for Hemsky- where's the logic? Not here obviously..

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02-20-2011, 11:58 PM
  #45
The Podium
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Does that really alter his value?

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02-20-2011, 11:59 PM
  #46
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Toronto and Edmonton are almost in the exact same position.

If Hemsky (with a better corps of forwards to boot!) doesn't help Edmonton out of the basement, why would anyone believe he'd help Toronto?

He's basically Tomas Kaberle as a forward- but much more injury prone. Burke won't trade his assets for a winger upgrade, it'll be towards a center like Weiss.

This makes zero sense for either team. It's like asking if Ottawa should trade picks/prospects for Hemsky- where's the logic? Not here obviously..
the problem with this bolded is you meant to say potentially better, not currently better.

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02-21-2011, 12:01 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Tarasenko View Post
lol wtf? i didn't even post this proposal buddy.

You made a mistake by saying Gardiner has 13 points in 41 games...I corrected you, you replied with a very stupid comment.

lol wtf? Are you 12, or simply unable to type?

As your clearly reading my responses - how about Hemsky for Toronto's 2012 1st and 2013 1st?

I know that the memory of Seguin, Knight, and (RNH/Hamilton/Strome) is still a problem, but you could fix it by taking on Phaneuf's 6.5m contract, Kessel, and Hemsky.

I'm sure of it.

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02-21-2011, 12:03 AM
  #48
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Man, it feels good to post this...


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02-21-2011, 12:04 AM
  #49
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lol wtf? Are you 12, or simply unable to type?

As your clearly reading my responses - how about Hemsky for Toronto's 2012 1st and 2013 1st?

I know that the memory of Seguin, Knight, and (RNH/Hamilton/Strome) is still a problem, but you could fix it by taking on Phaneuf's 6.5m contract, Kessel, and Hemsky.

I'm sure of it.
...

just stop

You're trying to back up your dumb post by revolting to making fun of the Leafs in a pathetic, over-used and boring way, but really just making your-self look like a bigger idiot

Good effort ?

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02-21-2011, 12:05 AM
  #50
The Podium
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Man, it feels good to post this...

aww someone had his feelings hurt

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