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Zherdev/Carcillo/Shelley

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:26 PM
  #101
Flyerfan4life
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say what you will about teh guy, but this team is a more dynamic threat on Offensive when Z. was getting quality icetime...

without him the goal count has been lower and we dont seem to have that unending wave after wave of attack/score pressure..

whateva the reason Lavi isnt making use of Z. i think its a mistake, but in the end Lavi is the coach and thats the end of it really..

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02-20-2011, 09:28 PM
  #102
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Unless he has a deal in the making, Holmgren may as well wait it out until the trade deadline. Injuries can happen, either to the Flyers or another team who then becomes a little more desperate for a goal-scoring winger. He has no need to divest himself of Zherdev prematurely.
Too much bad blood now between management and the player, who feels he is about to be lynched at worst, ignored at best.

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02-20-2011, 09:31 PM
  #103
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I actually went back to rewatch his last shift against Carolina, the one that earned him his banishment. The puck was near the offensive blue line along the boards near the players' bench, and he was nearing the end of his shift. He skated towards the puck and poked it/dumped it into the offensive zone and got off the ice. For whatever reason, Herr Lavy would have none of that and didn't put him on the ice again in that game and not since then. And, as others have noted, the Flyers' offense looks no better, if not worse, without him out there. But it's all pointless now, Zherdev won't be playing again for the Flyers.

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02-20-2011, 09:35 PM
  #104
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Unless Z is after Lavi's wife, I don't know what to think...

If he's pissed about effort, I can think of about 15 other guys who have only been trying for 20 minutes the last few games

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02-20-2011, 09:37 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
I actually went back to rewatch his last shift against Carolina, the one that earned him his banishment. The puck was near the offensive blue line along the boards near the players' bench, and he was nearing the end of his shift. He skated towards the puck and poked it/dumped it into the offensive zone and got off the ice. For whatever reason, Herr Lavy would have none of that and didn't put him on the ice again in that game and not since then. And, as others have noted, the Flyers' offense looks no better, if not worse, without him out there. But it's all pointless now, Zherdev won't be playing again for the Flyers.
No worries. Shelley wouldn't have been half way to that puck skating at full speed. He is good for losing fights to people his own size and taking draws to lightweights, though.

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02-20-2011, 09:38 PM
  #106
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But Z was the new guy with a bad rep and people's opinions were already pretty much formed before he even stepped on the ice. We all seek out information that backs up our preconceived notions. So, with Zherdev his defensive play would always be under the microscope, and every mistake magnified. I've rarely heard much buzz about his goal against Calgary, probably the best scored by a Flyer all year. Or the one against Pittsburgh. Or the two against the Rangers. Or the goal against Buffalo. No, it always comes back to his play along the boards and in the defensive zone!!!


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02-20-2011, 09:39 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JonnyGaloshes View Post
Unless Z is after Lavi's wife, I don't know what to think...

If he's pissed about effort, I can think of about 15 other guys who have only been trying for 20 minutes the last few games
Checklist:
1) Are they Russian and were they signed knowing they weren't "grinders"?
If no, players are given free passes.

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02-20-2011, 09:42 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JonnyGaloshes View Post
Unless Z is after Lavi's wife, I don't know what to think...

If he's pissed about effort, I can think of about 15 other guys who have only been trying for 20 minutes the last few games
I don't think the Zherdev lovers understand. There has to be things going on behind the scene. As well as on the ice with his inconsistent piss poor efforts and selfish play. This is the same Zherdev that complained about ice time earlier in the season when he didn't deserve it.

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02-20-2011, 09:45 PM
  #109
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Zherdev dishes out plenty of passes to teammates, many of which weren't converted. On the other hand, don't remember Giroux looking for anyone else to pass to than Carter who is not to quick to share the puck himself.

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02-20-2011, 09:46 PM
  #110
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There must be something going on at practices - maybe Zherdev is even lazier there. Anyway - the way the playoffs work - I imagine that some forwards will go down and we will be seeing Zherdev again. Hopefully he will be extremely motivated and will earn himself a good contract somewhere else by helping the Flyers win a cup.

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02-20-2011, 09:53 PM
  #111
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I don't think the Zherdev lovers understand. There has to be things going on behind the scene. As well as on the ice with his inconsistent piss poor efforts and selfish play. This is the same Zherdev that complained about ice time earlier in the season when he didn't deserve it.
That's what I'd like to figure out.

Yeah, the dude dogs it from time to time and probably acts like an entitled piece of **** in the locker room, but is it really bad enough to warrant wasting his minutes on Jody ****ing Shelly?

The team is still winning, but they aren't outplaying opponents like they were a few weeks ago. It's going to catch up with them sooner or later.

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02-20-2011, 09:53 PM
  #112
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Doesn't bang bodies enough, not enough like "Flyers hockey." Folks, he's done in Philly. Nothing about lockerroom stuff. Just doesn't stick to the coach's strict game plan.

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02-20-2011, 10:33 PM
  #113
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I think the problem is he has to keep being put in the dog house in order to play more responsibly. It's got to piss Lavi off to have to spend that much time on one player and the player keeps falling into his old habits.

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02-20-2011, 10:45 PM
  #114
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I read an article about a week ago from a flyers reporter(credibility can always be questioned) but he was saying that not only is Lavy fed up with him not buying into the system, but apparently some of the guys on the team were really irritated with the way he was kind of doing his own thing. This isnt that far-fetched, I mean if a guy like pronger sees someone floating and not playing a team game hes gonna speak up, locker room dynamic and chemistry is a big thing, this could be a reason hes been locked out

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02-21-2011, 12:06 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
Zherdev dishes out plenty of passes to teammates, many of which weren't converted. On the other hand, don't remember Giroux looking for anyone else to pass to than Carter who is not to quick to share the puck himself.
Seriously? Seriously? Do you not see how pathetic this rationalization/defense is? Z dishes out plenty of passes he's just obscenely unlucky, meanwhile Giroux is playing favorites?

I mean, cem on.

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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
I read an article about a week ago from a flyers reporter(credibility can always be questioned) but he was saying that not only is Lavy fed up with him not buying into the system, but apparently some of the guys on the team were really irritated with the way he was kind of doing his own thing. This isnt that far-fetched, I mean if a guy like pronger sees someone floating and not playing a team game hes gonna speak up, locker room dynamic and chemistry is a big thing, this could be a reason hes been locked out
The rumors about him irritating teammates with the freelancing have been floating around for a couple months now.

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02-21-2011, 12:26 AM
  #116
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[QUOTE=Jester;31101254]Seriously? Seriously? Do you not see how pathetic this rationalization/defense is? Z dishes out plenty of passes he's just obscenely unlucky, meanwhile Giroux is playing favorites?

I mean, cem on.


Of course players have favorites. They're not machines. When I played soccer at Penn, I'd look for players I trusted. It's natural. Giroux feels more comfortable with Carter and Carter feels more comfortable with Carter. (No typo). Lots of times, Giroux would forego a lead pass to Zherdev to gain the zone, do his turn thing and look up for Carter crashing the next. The two have excellent chemistry. Zherdev dished the puck plenty of times to those two and never got it back. And yeah, call it bad luck or whatever, but Zherdev came into a situation with a lot of cards stacked against him. For him to succeed there, a lot of things needed to go his way, they didn't and now he's on his way out. Listen, you've made clear your not a Zherdev fan, so there's really no point arguing with you. In your world, he was treated just like any other Flyer and he has only himself to blame. I tend to focus on management's almost humiliating treatment of a top athlete, and failure to give him more of an opportunity, specifically the power play. The fact he scored 15 goals on minimal playing time speaks volumes to me. To you, its the opposite. The fact he got so little playing time means he was not playing well. I can't empirically prove my point, nor can you. These are my impressions. You have yours. I doubt you have much experience though playing sport at a high level. Am I right? And I will bet you the Flyers will not win a Stanley Cup this year.


Last edited by phillyfury: 02-21-2011 at 12:36 AM.
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02-21-2011, 01:11 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
Of course players have favorites. They're not machines. When I played soccer at Penn, I'd look for players I trusted. It's natural. Giroux feels more comfortable with Carter and Carter feels more comfortable with Carter. (No typo). Lots of times, Giroux would forego a lead pass to Zherdev to gain the zone, do his turn thing and look up for Carter crashing the next. The two have excellent chemistry. Zherdev dished the puck plenty of times to those two and never got it back. And yeah, call it bad luck or whatever, but Zherdev came into a situation with a lot of cards stacked against him. For him to succeed there, a lot of things needed to go his way, they didn't and now he's on his way out. Listen, you've made clear your not a Zherdev fan, so there's really no point arguing with you. In your world, he was treated just like any other Flyer and he has only himself to blame. I tend to focus on management's almost humiliating treatment of a top athlete, and failure to give him more of an opportunity, specifically the power play. The fact he scored 15 goals on minimal playing time speaks volumes to me. To you, its the opposite. The fact he got so little playing time means he was not playing well. I can't empirically prove my point, nor can you. These are my impressions. You have yours.
Yeah, I've pretty much consistently stated that I wanted to see Zherdev playing with Richards. So get on with your bad self creating paper tigers.

Zherdev has been a puck hog here, and he's freelanced too much. That's why he's having trouble with the coach. He has 4 assists in 47 games, and the majority of his shifts have been with some of the top scoring guys on the team; just 4. He hasn't been dishing the puck plenty.

If you think Giroux is sitting around pondering who he's going to send the puck to, then you haven't been paying attention to Giroux. Here's an alternate hypothesis (from Z getting shafted by his teammates): Z isn't playing within the system, so he isn't where his teammates expect him to be and that hurts his chance to get the puck. Additionally, stretch passes are inherently risky... additionally, if the player is taking off on a lone ranger rush, the chance of a goal is pretty slim if the defense is organized. Whereas moving up as a unit provides offensive support.

Carter and Giroux are both well ahead of Z as far as GFON/60, so they're doing something right.

Of course, you've also made it clear that all you come on this site to do is blabber about Zherdev... because you clearly have some sort of serious infatuation with the guy. He's a flashy and skilled hockey player, but he spent last year in the KHL and there's a good chance he's going back there for a reason. Perhaps your lack of objectivity (blaming everyone else for Z's misfortune) is something you need to assess.

Quote:
I doubt you have much experience though playing sport at a high level. Am I right? And I will bet you the Flyers will not win a Stanley Cup this year.
I was actually a very good baseball player, but the fact that you bring up this point pretty much proves that you have zero substance to what you're trying to say. Pretty sad that a fellow alum would fall to a point like this. Be better than that for the Red and Blue.


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02-21-2011, 09:28 AM
  #118
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Of course, you've also made it clear that all you come on this site to do is blabber about Zherdev... because you clearly have some sort of serious infatuation with the guy.
Perhaps we have discovered Vera's second account.

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02-21-2011, 10:18 AM
  #119
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If Zherdev isn't going to play, which seems pretty obvious, at least set up the lines as to not further neuter the offense.

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02-21-2011, 10:48 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by JonnyGaloshes View Post
If Zherdev isn't going to play, which seems pretty obvious, at least set up the lines as to not further neuter the offense.
The offense has been in a lull for a little bit.

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02-21-2011, 10:54 AM
  #121
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I doubt you have much experience though playing sport at a high level. Am I right? And I will bet you the Flyers will not win a Stanley Cup this year.
Clearly your knowledge of playing soccer at a high level is of no use to discussing hockey, because you are clueless.

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02-21-2011, 11:11 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
Zherdev dishes out plenty of passes to teammates, many of which weren't converted. On the other hand, don't remember Giroux looking for anyone else to pass to than Carter who is not to quick to share the puck himself.
Maybe that's because Giroux is on a line with Carter. Who's he supposed to pass to, someone sitting on the bench?

I don't think you've been paying enough attention to what Giroux actually does on the ice to comment on it.

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02-21-2011, 02:02 PM
  #123
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The offense has been in a lull for a little bit.
It has, but it's the type of lull that's worrying me. They're getting bounces and breaks all over the place without sustaining pressure or looking dangerous.

They look disjointed. Eventually the bounces will stop coming.

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02-21-2011, 02:05 PM
  #124
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It has, but it's the type of lull that's worrying me. They're getting bounces and breaks all over the place without sustaining pressure or looking dangerous.

They look disjointed. Eventually the bounces will stop coming.
They're inconsistent in their attention to detail, I think. Not sure how the lines have or have not been set up is having much effect. Just one of those things... sometimes you're on, and sometimes you're not. They need to get through this funk and things will begin to take off.

What is really keeping 'em going is the fact that Carter has been on one of his runs of hot play... that's been a big help.

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02-21-2011, 02:27 PM
  #125
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Just seen this tweet from Timmay....

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tpanotch Tim Panaccio
Holmgren said team could not find Zherdev in CAR and Shelley they found; say Z's work ethic has dropped

How the hell do you lose a Zheredev?! He's given up.

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