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Do the other GM's just hate dealing with Lombardi?

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:55 AM
  #51
Tadite
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It's just misbegotten ranting anyway. No point in addressing it.

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02-21-2011, 11:02 AM
  #52
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I agree that the Hawks have/had depth and could afford to let a couple of their cup team players go and still be competitive, I am not as certain that they can get back to the promised land but time will tell.

The Wings say hello to the notion that all you get is your one cup and then can't get another until after you totally retool in the new NHL.

That is what I am saying and I don't remember using the word Dynasty once. What I am saying is that we are building enough overall depth to where we can steadily feed talented young players onto our team each season (or use them as assets for deals to fill specific holes) and in that we can be a legitimate cup contender for years to come as opposed to being a team that gets one shot and then either has to completely retool or have a massive overhaul.

It can be done it just takes time and one of the best scouting systems in the game and a plan.

We have the goaltending depth. We are over run with defencive depth. We have enough character/grinders up front. We need to finish developing our skill/talent depth and we will be ready. That doesn't mean that you don't make a deal for a player today if you can get the specific fit that you are trying to develop and get onto your team depending on the cost.

It does mean that if you don't make a deal for anything less than specifically what you need but that is just my opinion.

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02-21-2011, 11:06 AM
  #53
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I would KILL to be Chicago's position.

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02-21-2011, 11:14 AM
  #54
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DL just doesn't have the cajones to pull the trigger.

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Old
02-21-2011, 11:15 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
I would KILL to be Chicago's position.
Today? Do you mean you would kill to be in their position today? If so I don't understand why.

If you would kill to have won the cup one time then I understand where your coming from. I want the cup to be won by the Kings as much as anyone anywhere also.

That said I would rather be where we are today than where Chi is without question. I wouldn't swap our roster and depth today for Chicago's.

They should be lauded for winning the cup last year but afterwards there should be a cautionary tale about them as well in my opinion.

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02-21-2011, 11:30 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Today? Do you mean you would kill to be in their position today? If so I don't understand why.

If you would kill to have won the cup one time then I understand where your coming from. I want the cup to be won by the Kings as much as anyone anywhere also.

That said I would rather be where we are today than where Chi is without question. I wouldn't swap our roster and depth today for Chicago's.

They should be lauded for winning the cup last year but afterwards there should be a cautionary tale about them as well in my opinion.
I would kill to have won a cup and still have the core they have. They can easily get back soon, maybe even this year.

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02-21-2011, 11:35 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
I would kill to have won a cup and still have the core they have. They can easily get back soon, maybe even this year.
I agree that they had some solid forward prospects to fill some of the holes that were left when they were forced to dismantle several of the key reasons (players) that helped them win their cup.

I have a completely different opinion than you do as to wanting to have their core over ours by any stretch of the imagination or that the Hawks are a legitimate contender but time could prove me wrong on both of those fronts. I don't think it will but we will get to see how things work out.

Oh and I wanted to say that I remember several people saying the exact same thing about the Ducks right after they won their cup.

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02-21-2011, 11:57 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
I would KILL to be Chicago's position.
All we have to do is lose a couple more games...

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Old
02-21-2011, 12:19 PM
  #59
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Chicago mismanaged their assets terribly, but just happened to win the Cup before the roof fell in. Was it worth it? Sure, because they won you can rationalize it. But what they did didn't guarantee them anything and didn't even increase their chances of winning.

They lost their Stanley Cup winning goalie because he got a $2.7 million arbitration award.

They might make the playoffs, I expect they will, but they are not an elite team anymore.

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02-21-2011, 12:44 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I agree that they had some solid forward prospects to fill some of the holes that were left when they were forced to dismantle several of the key reasons (players) that helped them win their cup.

I have a completely different opinion than you do as to wanting to have their core over ours by any stretch of the imagination or that the Hawks are a legitimate contender but time could prove me wrong on both of those fronts. I don't think it will but we will get to see how things work out.

Oh and I wanted to say that I remember several people saying the exact same thing about the Ducks right after they won their cup.
I didn't say I prefer their core over ours (I'd have to think about that, I might). What I said is I'd prefer is having won the Stanley Cup and having their core over having our core.

Then again, I'd prefer having won the Cup and having Florida's core to not ever winning.

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Old
02-21-2011, 01:26 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Your missing the point. That team that went for the cup was a one and done...this year is obviously a down year, next year who knows but I doubt the can be favorites. So if its one shot at the cup then 2 years to retool that is one and done. Had Chi been able to keep Ladd and one of Buff/Steg and a defensemen then they most likely would still be a top team. But they lost 3 times the players most teams do after winning a cup and that was due to some inflated contracts that they gave out before the cup run.
Well I guess we have different opinions on the term "one and done". I think CHIC will win another Cup in the next 3 yrs. If they do I don't consider them a "one and done".
Personally with the Cap going up by a few Million I see CHIC being just fine.
The smart thing for them to do would be to sign guys like Frolov, who have something to prove, to a chaep one year deal. Its win-win as he would put up solid numbers enabling him to get a better deal the following year from some team and the Hawks get solid production from a top 6 fwd on the cheap.

This is similiar to what the Canucks have done with Torres. He will likely sign a better deal in the summer somewhere else (TOR?) or maybe even in Vancouver at a higher salary. Both parties benefit. SJ did the same with Malholtra last year and he ended up getting good money in Vancouver. There are always UFA who have something to prove.

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Old
02-21-2011, 01:34 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
having to trade away Bolland or any other established roster players will continue the decline of their roster. take away the usual Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp and the overall skill level isn't the same as last season. Bolland has given them consistent effort and numbers, now take away yet another good supporting player and the depth gets even worse. CHI doesn't have the depth it had last season and can't afford to lose any more of it's L2 - L4 depth.

they are 2 pts out of the race now, but have 2 less wins than those above them (first tiebreaker). they have two if not three games they need to make up to get back into contention. if they don't make the playoffs this season....it's definitely one and done.

i live in CHI and the 'real' (forget about the majority of band wagon fans) Hawks fans are gripping because they know where and how this team is falling apart. they understand the salary cap issues that began this and they understand they didn't have the depth in the minors to replace the lost talent.



personally i don't see any difference between what ANH or CHI did that is different than what teams have done for decades. they made some moves during the season and up to the deadline to supplement their roster. the majority of teams follow this format whether they are buyers or sellers.

the exception to the rule that few follow is going into the playoffs with a roster of mostly home grown players. DET is the most visible team to follow this route. they add a few FA's here and there. they make a big trade by the deadline sometimes. for the most part they continue to succeed with the same guys they drafted and developed.



as much credit as Dale Tallon has been given since CHI won the SC, I find it interesting that I haven't heard much criticism when it comes to the after effect. yes he built a great team. yes he assessed, drafted and developed some great young talent. yes he got the big FA in Hossa. yes he filled out the roster with talented and competent players. BUT what he built and how quickly it had to be torn down due to cap issues should also be criticized. the same way Feaster got roasted in TB after they won and had to rip the team apart. which by the way is finally competing again at that level. for TB that was 2004 and 6 seasons later they are getting back to the elite level.....that is 'one and done'.
Well I'm not saying Bolland would be moved for nothing. Bolland is a good defensive center and I thought he did very well in that role last yr vs Sedin and Thornton. However watching CHIC this season they seem to be missing some of the grinding and board play guys like Buff and Ladd brought.

Maybe a deal like Bolland to LA for Simmonds? LA gets a replacement to Handzus and CHIC gets a budding power forward who still has 20+ goal potential but would probably come with less than half the Cap hit?

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:21 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
All we have to do is lose a couple more games...
And have won the Stanley Cup in 2010.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:58 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
I didn't say I prefer their core over ours (I'd have to think about that, I might). What I said is I'd prefer is having won the Stanley Cup and having their core over having our core.

Then again, I'd prefer having won the Cup and having Florida's core to not ever winning.
O.K. so time will tell if your being a Kings fan will be rewarded and if everything goes right we will exceed your expectations.

I want us to win a cup as bad as anyone else, I just want us to be able to have a team left over afterwards that can continue trying to do so for years and have a legit shot at it.

Time will tell which way is right but you will have to trump card of liking any team that has one the cup at least once.

I would rather we try to build a team/system that will allow us to try to do so more than once.

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02-21-2011, 03:09 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I would rather we try to build a team/system that will allow us to try to do so more than once.
I would too but once would be a damn nice start.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:46 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
O.K. so time will tell if your being a Kings fan will be rewarded and if everything goes right we will exceed your expectations.

I want us to win a cup as bad as anyone else, I just want us to be able to have a team left over afterwards that can continue trying to do so for years and have a legit shot at it.

Time will tell which way is right but you will have to trump card of liking any team that has one the cup at least once.

I would rather we try to build a team/system that will allow us to try to do so more than once.
I think CHIC has a better chance of winning another Cup than LA does at its first. Obviously LA has a higher potential as it waits for guys like Schenn,Loktionov,Voynov and others to become regulars.

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02-21-2011, 03:50 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by nK View Post
I think CHIC has a better chance of winning another Cup than LA does at its first. Obviously LA has a higher potential as it waits for guys like Schenn,Loktionov,Voynov and others to become regulars.
Its arguable.

I guess time will tell which is right. I think that if you mean this year then I would call us closer to even but who knows.

After this year I like our chances more and more as time goes on.

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02-21-2011, 03:55 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Its arguable.

I guess time will tell which is right. I think that if you mean this year then I would call us closer to even but who knows.

After this year I like our chances more and more as time goes on.
Chi town has a better established top 6 than we do. CHI's D is weaker overall (even more so if Seabrook doesnt get a extension). And I probably dont need to go into the goalie situation.

On paper we should be the better team for the next few seasons...doesnt elude the fact we need more skill upfront tho to take us to the contender level.

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02-21-2011, 04:00 PM
  #69
etherialone
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No it doesn't but then I agree completely that we need to fix out top 6.

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02-21-2011, 04:36 PM
  #70
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Dallas moving Neal AND Niskanen for Goligoski.

Another missed opportunity.

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02-21-2011, 04:52 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Dallas moving Neal AND Niskanen for Goligoski.

Another missed opportunity.
Do you really think Dallas would trade those two guys to a division rival?

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:24 PM
  #72
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Do you really think Dallas would trade those two guys to a division rival?
Agreed, Good **** Maynard

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:30 PM
  #73
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LA doesn't have anyone like Goligoski and DAL likely would have demanded JJ.

Lombardi is very stubborn when it comes to dealing and may not have the best relationship with certain GM's.

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02-21-2011, 05:35 PM
  #74
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Funny Jerry West was mentioned. Being a Lakers fan as well, I recall fans anxious for trades complaining that other GM's wouldn't even field calls from him for fear of getting bent over by him. Kinda reinforces the notion that coaches and GM's will get flak no matter what, no matter who.

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:37 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
LA doesn't have anyone like Goligoski and DAL likely would have demanded JJ.

Lombardi is very stubborn when it comes to dealing and may not have the best relationship with certain GM's.
If Dallas had wanted Jack Johnson they would have had to give up Benn and a high pick. I would have been pissed if the return on him was Neal and Niskanen. Jack has a much more rounded game than Goligoski.

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