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Old
02-21-2011, 12:28 PM
  #51
Seedling
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Pick him up and waive JFJ. Hagman can be usefull. Then try and re-sign the guy for a mill if possible.

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02-21-2011, 12:35 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hope4theFuture View Post
He needs to play in the top 6 IMO, and we don't have room for him there. Surprised he's being waived though - What pieces are still left on Calgary from the Phaneuf deal?
Stajan and his 5 goals in 55 games. not that Dion is a great d-man or anything, but the Flames got fleeced big time by Toronto on this deal, IMO!

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02-21-2011, 12:41 PM
  #53
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OP, Let me ask you this question - hypothetically speaking, let's say Hagman becomes a UFA this summer.

If on UFA day, Hagman was interested in coming to the Oilers but only for a $3 million one year contract - would you sign him?

I wouldn't. Not because he isn't a good player, but because there's no room on the wings for him in the top 9 and Hagman doesn't fill a need.

Needs:
- a shutdown centreman who can win faceoffs.
- top four veteran defender who can shutdown the opposition.
- a pp quarterback to replace Foster.

Hagman doesn't do any of the above. On the wings, he'd be competing with Hemsky, Penner, Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Omark, Brule, Jones. Hemsky, Penner and Hall are frankly better than Hagman and I would rather give development and game time to young future scorers like Eberle, Paajarvi, and Omark. Hagman versus Brule or Jones? Maybe if we trade one of those two by the deadline, I could see Hagman replacing them, but I would also be up for giving a prospect an opportunity like Hartikainen, O'Marra or Colin Macdonald.

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02-21-2011, 12:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
OP, Let me ask you this question - hypothetically speaking, let's say Hagman becomes a UFA this summer.

If on UFA day, Hagman was interested in coming to the Oilers but only for a $3 million one year contract - would you sign him?

I wouldn't. Not because he isn't a good player, but because there's no room on the wings for him in the top 9 and Hagman doesn't fill a need.

Needs:
- a shutdown centreman who can win faceoffs.
- top four veteran defender who can shutdown the opposition.
- a pp quarterback to replace Foster.

Hagman doesn't do any of the above. On the wings, he'd be competing with Hemsky, Penner, Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Omark, Brule, Jones. Hemsky, Penner and Hall are frankly better than Hagman and I would rather give development and game time to young future scorers like Eberle, Paajarvi, and Omark. Hagman versus Brule or Jones? Maybe if we trade one of those two by the deadline, I could see Hagman replacing them, but I would also be up for giving a prospect an opportunity like Hartikainen, O'Marra or Colin Macdonald.

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02-21-2011, 12:45 PM
  #55
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and Hagman just isn't worth $3 mil/per anyways!

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02-21-2011, 12:46 PM
  #56
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Why don't the Oilers waive Strudwick first for any pickup? They don't ever play him so he must be the most useless player on the roster. So what if he is a defenseman, I'd waive him and pick up Hagman or others first. I guess they still want to maintain the top 3 pick.

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02-21-2011, 12:46 PM
  #57
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You don't think Feaster already tried something similar?
Yes I'm sure Feaster has likely tried to get something for him rather than throw him away for nothing but the Oilers have a lot more flexibility in terms of cap space than the Flames who are right up against the cap max. That may have also affected any possible trade for him as well. I'm VERY surprised the Flames can't even get a 7th round pick for him. The guy is obviously worth that seeing as he's actually an established roster player who has decent stats. Obviously his salary of $3 million next year scares some teams away... especially those with very little cap space of their own as well.

It's also possible this is a spur of the moment action by the Flames to quickly clear cap space to make room for another trade.

Whatever the reason... I think it's a very low risk pickup for the Oilers. He's an experienced player who would bring some offense and defense into the roster.

I'm not going to be heart-broken if they don't pick him up (they likely won't anyway) but I think the attitude of management should be to improve the club on waivers when they get these opportunities. They should have done that with Grabner (cheap, speedy, young prospect was a no-brainer low risk pickup as well) and they now should do that with Hagman.

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02-21-2011, 12:51 PM
  #58
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Yes I'm sure Feaster has likely tried to get something for him rather than throw him away for nothing but the Oilers have a lot more flexibility in terms of cap space than the Flames who are right up against the cap max. That may have also affected any possible trade for him as well. I'm VERY surprised the Flames can't even get a 7th round pick for him. The guy is obviously worth that seeing as he's actually an established roster player who has decent stats. Obviously his salary of $3 million next year scares some teams away... especially those with very little cap space of their own as well.

It's also possible this is a spur of the moment action by the Flames to quickly clear cap space to make room for another trade.

Whatever the reason... I think it's a very low risk pickup for the Oilers. He's an experienced player who would bring some offense and defense into the roster.

I'm not going to be heart-broken if they don't pick him up (they likely won't anyway) but I think the attitude of management should be to improve the club on waivers when they get these opportunities. They should have done that with Grabner (cheap, speedy, young prospect was a no-brainer low risk pickup as well) and they now should do that with Hagman.
I agree with Grabner but don't see any reason to take a flier on a 3m 31 year old player that's also signed for another year. We're going nowhere this year and need the space for youth development, or at least assessment. Filling that role with an expensive older player just doesn't make sense..

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02-21-2011, 12:52 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Yes I'm sure Feaster has likely tried to get something for him rather than throw him away for nothing but the Oilers have a lot more flexibility in terms of cap space than the Flames who are right up against the cap max. That may have also affected any possible trade for him as well. I'm VERY surprised the Flames can't even get a 7th round pick for him. The guy is obviously worth that seeing as he's actually an established roster player who has decent stats. Obviously his salary of $3 million next year scares some teams away... especially those with very little cap space of their own as well.

It's also possible this is a spur of the moment action by the Flames to quickly clear cap space to make room for another trade.

Whatever the reason... I think it's a very low risk pickup for the Oilers. He's an experienced player who would bring some offense and defense into the roster.

I'm not going to be heart-broken if they don't pick him up (they likely won't anyway) but I think the attitude of management should be to improve the club on waivers when they get these opportunities. They should have done that with Grabner (cheap, speedy, young prospect was a no-brainer low risk pickup as well) and they now should do that with Hagman.
Actually, if Hagman goes, the Flames have cap room to take on over 7 million in salary. Just sayin.

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02-21-2011, 12:58 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
OP, Let me ask you this question - hypothetically speaking, let's say Hagman becomes a UFA this summer.

If on UFA day, Hagman was interested in coming to the Oilers but only for a $3 million one year contract - would you sign him?

I wouldn't. Not because he isn't a good player, but because there's no room on the wings for him in the top 9 and Hagman doesn't fill a need.

Needs:
- a shutdown centreman who can win faceoffs.
- top four veteran defender who can shutdown the opposition.
- a pp quarterback to replace Foster.

Hagman doesn't do any of the above. On the wings, he'd be competing with Hemsky, Penner, Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Omark, Brule, Jones. Hemsky, Penner and Hall are frankly better than Hagman and I would rather give development and game time to young future scorers like Eberle, Paajarvi, and Omark. Hagman versus Brule or Jones? Maybe if we trade one of those two by the deadline, I could see Hagman replacing them, but I would also be up for giving a prospect an opportunity like Hartikainen, O'Marra or Colin Macdonald.
Fair points, and no I wouldn't give him 3.0mil. Based on his last 3 years he deserves maybe 2.0, 2.5 tops. This year he's been worth 1.0 to 1.5 but mostly because of his diminished role. So say he's worth somewhere around 1.5-2.2mil. Not the end of the world. You give up nothing, you have an asset you can potentially flip for a pick at the deadline and you have some experience in the lineup.

Saying the Oilers can't fit him in when you have JFJ and SMac in the lineup is about the least convincing argument I can imagine. Oilers have cap space to burn, with few good UFAs this July. And those UFAs that are half decent won't want to come to Edmonton except for an overpayment. In that light, 3.0mil isn't the worst contract in the world. You could end up saving a mil in UFA for a similar player or you could walk away empty handed and have to play JFJ again...

I would think long and hard about claiming him. The arguments against it have failed to convince me not to.

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02-21-2011, 01:00 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by oilfan22 View Post
I agree with Grabner but don't see any reason to take a flier on a 3m 31 year old player that's also signed for another year. We're going nowhere this year and need the space for youth development, or at least assessment. Filling that role with an expensive older player just doesn't make sense..
**** me, how much longer do we have to assess SMac and JFJ... They suck. Does anyone here disagree with that assessment? Took me 12 seconds.

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02-21-2011, 01:09 PM
  #62
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As opposed to the OP, I will say Hagman is soft and underachieving this year. He's not exactly a pay the price type hockey. And putting him on the 4th line is absurd. The Oilers already have wingers that can score goals. And, no he can't play on the 3rd line, can he PK? No he can't. What a waste of money this would be.
Maybe he can't in Calgary for some reason, but he has in the past. 07/08 season for Dallas he scored 4 shorties and was a regular PKer for them. They were 2nd in the NHL that year. It seems like he may be more of a victim of circumstance in Calgary (ie not a Sutter type of guy). He doesn't hit much, but from what I remember watching him with the Leafs he was always aggressive on the forecheck.

I think its worth the pick up if we move Penner (which I think we should). Hagman has a deadly release and would be a motivated pick-up due to being waived, as well as being in a contract year next year. Seems he's just the type that needs the right kind of coach, but if Renney's that guy and he puts up 25+ for us next year, he'll be worth a 2nd for sure at the 2012 deadline. Again, this likely only happens if we have a deal in place for Penner.

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02-21-2011, 01:30 PM
  #63
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Maybe he can't in Calgary for some reason, but he has in the past. 07/08 season for Dallas he scored 4 shorties and was a regular PKer for them. They were 2nd in the NHL that year. It seems like he may be more of a victim of circumstance in Calgary (ie not a Sutter type of guy). He doesn't hit much, but from what I remember watching him with the Leafs he was always aggressive on the forecheck.

I think its worth the pick up if we move Penner (which I think we should). Hagman has a deadly release and would be a motivated pick-up due to being waived, as well as being in a contract year next year. Seems he's just the type that needs the right kind of coach, but if Renney's that guy and he puts up 25+ for us next year, he'll be worth a 2nd for sure at the 2012 deadline. Again, this likely only happens if we have a deal in place for Penner
And one of Hemsky/Penner WILL be traded. We know Tambellini is asking a heavy price, but with the play-off race being so tight and so many teams under pressure to make play-offs, someone will pay the price--make no mistake about. We´ll soon find out if it will be LA, Atlanta, Washington, or a team that has not surfaced in rumors yet.

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02-21-2011, 01:38 PM
  #64
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Yup, KLowe is the dumbest *89^$#&* in the history of the planet! Don't get me started on Hejda, Brodziak, Smyth, MAP-Parise, 2nd Penner Trade, Comrie for Perry, or any of his other brilliant moves either!

BTW, rumor has it the Oilers are real hot on a kid name Keegan Lowe, and may use the 1st overall pick to take this kid in 2011!
What does this have to do with the thread?

Haters gonna hate...

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02-21-2011, 01:44 PM
  #65
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And one of Hemsky/Penner WILL be traded. We know Tambellini is asking a heavy price, but with the play-off race being so tight and so many teams under pressure to make play-offs, someone will pay the price--make no mistake about. We´ll soon find out if it will be LA, Atlanta, Washington, or a team that has not surfaced in rumors yet.
I don't think they will..There are quite a few B options out there in Kovalev, Arnott, Weiss, Zherdev, etc, and the top teams, such as Philly and Van won't be making much for moves. IMO, teams like Pitts, La, Mont, etc, will make cheap moves because they don't believe there will be enough difference in picking up Hemsky/Penner to make them better than those teams and put them closer to the cup. They won't want to spend the asking price for a slight difference.....I think they'll both still be Oilers after the deadline..

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02-21-2011, 01:48 PM
  #66
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I don't think they will..There are quite a few B options out there in Kovalev, Arnott, Weiss, Zherdev, etc, and the top teams, such as Philly and Van won't be making much for moves. IMO, teams like Pitts, La, Mont, etc, will make cheap moves because they don't believe there will be enough difference in picking up Hemsky/Penner to make them better than those teams and put them closer to the cup. They won't want to spend the asking price for a slight difference.....I think they'll both still be Oilers after the deadline..
you may be right about Penner. Hemsky IMO is in a whole different tier of player. That's why I would rather just keep Hemsky.
Lomabardi in LA really needs to do something. I can't believe how cautious this guy is. Now that he has built a great team, it's time to make a move. Push them to contender level.

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02-21-2011, 01:50 PM
  #67
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02-21-2011, 01:55 PM
  #68
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**** me, how much longer do we have to assess SMac and JFJ... They suck. Does anyone here disagree with that assessment? Took me 12 seconds.
So what?? We're in no position to do anything this year so why sign an overpaid 31 year old for another year? Mac and JFJ can be dropped at anytime without much cost or consequence. Sounds simple to me and I don't understand why we'd even be talking about it....

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02-21-2011, 02:08 PM
  #69
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So what?? We're in no position to do anything this year so why sign an overpaid 31 year old for another year? Mac and JFJ can be dropped at anytime without much cost or consequence. Sounds simple to me and I don't understand why we'd even be talking about it....
Why sign him? I think Hagman might help next year. He could contribute on the 4th line a hell of a lot more than JFJ/Smac and he could fill in on the top 9 when injuries hit. He has alot of experience, including pk time and pp time in his past. He's played everywhere from 1st line to 4th line.

Yeah he's overpaid but I think unless we can get Glencross Hagmans's better than most UFAs out there, and most importantly he won't say no to playing in EDM cuz he's under contract. If Lander + Hartikainen/whoever else push for full time roster spots, waive Hagman.

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02-21-2011, 02:15 PM
  #70
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Why sign him? I think Hagman might help next year. He could contribute on the 4th line a hell of a lot more than JFJ/Smac and he could fill in on the top 9 when injuries hit. He has alot of experience, including pk time and pp time in his past. He's played everywhere from 1st line to 4th line.

Yeah he's overpaid but I think unless we can get Glencross Hagmans's better than most UFAs out there, and most importantly he won't say no to playing in EDM cuz he's under contract. If Lander + Hartikainen/whoever else push for full time roster spots, waive Hagman.
Does it really matter if he 'might' help a little? And we don't just need a couple of wins...We need the space next year to try out our other prospects to help them grow and probably evaluate a few others...Besides, if no one picks him up next year we're now on the hook for another 3m to add to Souray's...It just isn't good asset management. If we were so close to the playoffs that he might take us there, or he was a young prospect, fine. Otherwise, no need, imo..

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02-21-2011, 02:43 PM
  #71
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Does it really matter if he 'might' help a little? And we don't just need a couple of wins...We need the space next year to try out our other prospects to help them grow and probably evaluate a few others...Besides, if no one picks him up next year we're now on the hook for another 3m to add to Souray's...It just isn't good asset management. If we were so close to the playoffs that he might take us there, or he was a young prospect, fine. Otherwise, no need, imo..
I agree we need roster spots for prospects. Players get hurt and go on IR, opening a spot. If one plays his way onto the team full time, let go of whatever asset is most expendable. The team can't be all rookies and sophomores. The oilers shouldn't be paralyzed by fear of waiving players that wouldn't have a place on a playoff team.

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02-21-2011, 02:44 PM
  #72
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Ugh. The direction we're going is playing JFJ for another year and that makes me want to punch my cat in frustration. Get a vet that can contribute...
Yeah, I guess you will need a good Vet if you do punch your cat.

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02-21-2011, 02:57 PM
  #73
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I don't think they will..There are quite a few B options out there in Kovalev, Arnott, Weiss, Zherdev, etc, and the top teams, such as Philly and Van won't be making much for moves. IMO, teams like Pitts, La, Mont, etc, will make cheap moves because they don't believe there will be enough difference in picking up Hemsky/Penner to make them better than those teams and put them closer to the cup. They won't want to spend the asking price for a slight difference.....I think they'll both still be Oilers after the deadline..
I would have agreed with you last week, but seeing how the play-off race in the West is getting even tighter and teams making moves, the pressure on some GMs will only increase. Let´s say Lombardi trades B assets for a few months of Arnott or Kovalev. LA could still misses the play-offs.

Let´s say Schenn lives up to the expectations and puts a solid 40 points next season as a rookie (optimistic scenario). Does he turn LA into a contender next year? probably not. Add to this, that some of their key veterans are riding into the twilight of their careers (Smyth, Handzus, Williams) and Doughty will have to be re-signed next year making it more difficult to add impac players. I believe Lombardi has a lot less wiggle room than many LA fans like to think. LA risks becoming next year´s version of CHI WITHOUT the cup to show.

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02-21-2011, 03:58 PM
  #74
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Hagmans a pretty nice player. Somebody else should pick him up.

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02-21-2011, 05:21 PM
  #75
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Just a quick comment on JFJ. I have never really cared one way or the other for the kid and certainly have been disappointed with the job he's been doing but I have to say, over the past 3-4 games he looks like a completely different player. If he could ever keep up what he has done lately he is an NHL player and not a bad one. Finally saw some toughness out of him, hitting everything that moved and fought for his teamate. Now if he could only do that 82 games in a row things would be great!

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