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Old
02-21-2011, 12:45 PM
  #76
Willard
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If he comes right back up after roster expansion next week, a lot of you will have made a mountain out of a mole hill.

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02-21-2011, 12:59 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Not to mention all 3 play on the same line together. When they feel like playing there isn't a better line in hockey. Also I think Getz/Perry get a new deal in 2 years, at which point they will get ~2mil raises.
So is what you're saying is that 1 point a game warrants a $6.8 million per year contract? WOW! If that is the case.....

Didn't Kopitar sign that contract 2 years ago when he produced 66 points?

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02-21-2011, 02:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Willard View Post
If he comes right back up after roster expansion next week, a lot of you will have made a mountain out of a mole hill.
In this wacky Western Conference, it will be interesting to come back and review that comment this time next Tuesday. Will the Kings be in 6th, or 12th? Time will tell.

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02-21-2011, 03:00 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Willard View Post
If he comes right back up after roster expansion next week, a lot of you will have made a mountain out of a mole hill.
Perhaps...and if he comes back, the team has failed to generate enough offense and lost several games as a result, we will be screaming from atop a mole hill.

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02-21-2011, 03:00 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
So is what you're saying is that 1 point a game warrants a $6.8 million per year contract? WOW! If that is the case.....

Didn't Kopitar sign that contract 2 years ago when he produced 66 points?
so you think that Eric Staal, Nash, Briere, Backstrom, koivu, Vanek, etc are all overpaid? Or would u say Ovy is overpaid? Overpayment is another term that is in the eyes of the beholder.

I would classify Drury and Gomez into the overpaid realm...and Ryan Smyth..

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Old
02-21-2011, 09:01 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
So is what you're saying is that 1 point a game warrants a $6.8 million per year contract? WOW! If that is the case.....

Didn't Kopitar sign that contract 2 years ago when he produced 66 points?
Yes! That is exactly what I'm saying...PPG players right now basically make Kopi/Statsny numbers or more...its even better when you realize outside of Staal/Iggy/Nash every other PPG is playing with another PPG player.

For the record Iggy makes 7 mil, Staal makes 8.25 and Nash makes 7.8 mil...so numbers wise you could argue Kopi is underpaid. And just for fun another Kopi equivalent, Mikko Koivu (I'd say a notch below Kopi but in a very similar situation playing wise) has an almost identical contract.

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02-21-2011, 09:03 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SimmondsFan View Post
It was the only option we had that would not put us in jeopardy of losing an asset for nothing. Lotki played well and is close but there were a few things Murray want him to work on. I am fairly certain he will be a regular next season. He is close.
They could have kept Sturm on the IR longer, at least until rosters opened up.

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Old
02-22-2011, 01:41 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I find it funny that a team looking for offense from the players they have called up is more concerned with the defensive and checking game of these players. They're young, they will learn, but to demote them instantly has to be a bit demoralizing for these players, especially after they display skills and show that they have the tools to contribute offensively.

They continue to force a square peg into a round hole. Look how they used Dwight King in a top six role where he clearly was in over his head. Reassigning him to Manchester made a lot of sense, but calling him up to play with Kopitar and Brown didn't.

It makes one wonder if this coaching staff knows what it is doing and what they want out of the players they are calling up.
This bolded part represents what I think is a deep philosophical divide in the world of coaching sports.. DL and Co. believe they know the kind of players that it takes to succeed as an organ-eye-zation. So to acquire those types of players and in DL's case certain very specific players (Williams and Smyth) they have had to either jettison those who players who dont fit their mindset, whether they can perform well for the team or not or they have to alter the style pf those players fundamentally to suit their own management or coachng style. (I will come back to this, later) (much later as it turned out)

Now, Before all the rabid TM fans start barking me up a tree, it is a good thing that many of our core players have had to undergo the TM defensive indoctrination which they have, because surely without it they might never have learnedhpw to play defense, and unless your the mid 80's Edmonton Oilers and can score in heaps and bunches, you have to learn to play defence to have chance in the playoffs. That said, you also need to score to win, and often more than 1 or 2 goals.

So enter DL several years back, who quickly came to the opinion that one of our best scorers would never be the kind of player he would come to like or want or who wqould be valued on any team of any note. The spin then follows from the team's upper echelon, that MC couldnt play defense šnd was self-centered, and subsequently became mantra for far too many Kings fans, primarily those who were formerly (and maybe someday again to be) known as the "Apologista's." (It actually goes far beyond those not so nice feelings between DL and MC, but I digress.)
Np specualtion here, but DL's mindset is that he is going to mold this team into the Flyers of the West. Hard to play against, (minus the smashmouth), defense first, a sound "system" of hockey to tame the rambunctious but talented youngsters out in the Wild West, who simply dont get it themselves. He loves his Philly era so much, and his fond memories of Clarkee, that he goes and hires the guy who didnt win it for Philidelphia, the one who accused his team of cough, cough "Choking" in the finals (Memo to self: Dont accuse peope I need to perform for me of choking)

DL then also goes out and pursues several former Flyer players, whose style he perceives to be just what is needed to win in the post lockout era of modern hockey. He says we need, we must, develop a culture of winning and comes up with a great sound bite: If you want to play and stay for my team (he might of said the Kings, but we knew what he meant) you better have a Kings tattoo on your butt, and unless your name starts with A and ends with R, that also meant taking a hometown discount on your next contract.

The new coach comes in and takes it slowly at first patching up the defensive coverage, or lack thereof, with what was thought at the beginning to be not a very strong a defensive corps. The change was slow and gradual at first, but the team got better defensively (Thanks Harpo, Honorable Mention to DD08.) Then, not entirely unexpected they started to improve overall. As the defenseman got better with their positioning, more of the defensive work was done with the forwards, and as a result they had to alter their creative up-tempo style to something that stressed the defensive, even when they had the puck on offense. This was a style the coach was very familiar with from his stint coaching during the previous millenium.

You remember that era of hockey-gone-by when not so fleet footed wingers were assisted in their defensive assignments, and defenceman too, by a cabal of referees, well actually it was all of them, who collectively couldn't understand that the penalty for holding was actually to be called when there was holding and that interference occurred, well, when someone was interefering with or impeding the movement of another player who didnt have the puck. But even before then, it was all the way back when goalies first started wearing masks, and players were mandated to wear helmets that this style of defense made itself known, and it was simpl":, you backchecked as hard as you forechecked (Gilbert Perrault said it best "Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck") and you "got a piece of your guy" and you didnt let him get around or away from you. A hand grabbing on the inside of the arm, contact deliberately checking the opponent (without the puck) all designed to slow it all down. "The old clutch and grab" has been around seemingly forever, but if one thing is for sure in the world its that you wont last long in this league if you need to do that to stay with your defensive assignment. You wont last the season, at least not on this team (or liley any other.).

But, as you already know, that wasnt the part of the SYSTEM TM brought with him and set up to help our forwards become all the could be, at least defensively. And I think it is beyond doubt that Kopitar's play has improved dramatically on the other side of the ice. But at what cost? (But again, I am getting ahead of myself) TM trotted out the "system," at a time when we had a healthy offense. The offense that hecurrently utilizes is a system which worked very well against the trap or left wing locks 10 or more years back when, because teams like New Jersey, would clog up the nuetral ice, force you, by the efforst of one dogged forechecker, to one side of the ice or another and attempt to smoother your puck movement, trapping you between 1 - 4 defenders. This most often resulted in either a turnover or a quickly rerieved puck from the trapping teams zone. With the clutching and grabbing prevalent back then, the dump in was even harder then to retrieve than it is now. Nevertheless, it, and let me be clear, (it is the offensive system we play) is the designed perimetrer play and the practiced dump in, was oftentimes the only way to get the puck into the offensive zone against good trapping teams, and dumping it in from center ice was far more preferable than turning it over at center ice for a transitionand scoring opportunity or two going the other way.

Now, however TM and Jamie believe that because there isnt the clutching and grabbing that used to exist, and with more and more teams playing a passive 1-2-2 defense (similar in many ways to a trap defense, at least in the nuetral zone) that the dump-in is viable as an offensive attack. But Wait, that is NOT the reason they use it. They use it because the coach is SO FOCUSED on defense first, last and always, (I guess there is nothing inherently wrong with that) that he wants to make certain his players dont take the chance of turning the puck over upon entering the zone (a valid concern) because turnovers in that area do result in transition the other way which leads to shots and good scoring chances, exactly what TM does not want to see. So, No longer can the Kings be a great defensive team, and they are a very good one now, (when they up to potential) by taking chances getting the puck into the zone at their blueline. The puck has to go deep quickly. Its been stressed over and over again, by all the coaches.

Which brings me full circle (well almost) to where I started this rant. Having turned the Kings into a defensive posture first team, that same defensive focus has drastically reduced our players ability to score. If your coach wants the puck entering on the weak side for a dump in and you decide to carry it in come hell or high water whatever the results, you wont be long for the team.

As good a defensive center as Kopitar has become, I think he (the Coach really) has placed TOO HIGH a premium on that aspect and it has very much hurt his offensive production at center. Do I love his hustle on the backcheck? SURE I DO. But to see him at the ALL STAR GAME play defence like his life depended on it, I would have laughed if it didnt make me sad. Seeing that on TV, I would have loved to have been there and asked him the question: How do you feel about how the emphasis on defense first has changed the Teams performance from when you first arrived? He should think positively about that because currently the team has a + 23 or so goal differential, and they are still in the hunt. Its the answer to the follow up question that I want to hear: Do you feel that in any way your defensive responsibilities have limited or impacted the quality and quantity of your scoring chances?

Now I am not saying he shouldnt be defensively responsible, but I do think his mindset has changed from that of being a player who can score whenever he wants to to trying to do it all, and as a result doing not nearly as much as he could its why the thought of him a left wing is intriguing to me. Dont get me wrong, its great to be responsible, but we need him for offense first. Really, I am all for a great defense (what kind of defenseman would I be if I wasnt (Paul Coffey?)) but our coach does not seem to grasp the notion that speed today, a trait this team is not long on, combined with forwards with decent puck handling skills can retain the puck much more often carrying it over the blueline than by dumping it in. If Loktionov did nothing else than illustrate that point clearly in his last few games his time up was worth it.

But when the puck is carried in they also generate more scoring chances and shots too. And as far as defense goes I do know that it is a heck of alot easier to contain another team when we spend significantly more time in their zone than they do in ours. One of the best ways to do that is maintain possession of the puck in your own zone. But how many times have you heard TM or Stevens say before the 3rd period starts that we "need to keep getting the puck deep, win the battles with our cycle and chip or plug away." The cycle itself is defensive in mindset, not that it cant or doesnt work, but keeping the puck to the outside keeps the opposition from breaking through the middle into prime scoring area.

(Finally, through all that, I reach the point I starte dout to make!)

So, having jettisoned the clutch sniper who this team drafted, and who could easily supply exactly the kind of offense this team needs now and has never replaced since he left, having turned away and let go several quality prospects because they couldnt fit into the defensive first system and still be good enough to provide the offense they can and are now providing elsewhere, having dogged Frolov and made him change his style from a slashing through the lanes scorer to a welded to the wall cycler, (but excpecting him to score 30 even still, does everyone believe, or did you ever believe, that as a coach or GM, that you pressure mold your players into what you want/need them to be even if it reduces their overall abilities and do you disgard valuable players, who have a weakness in one part of their game but are very strong in others, because you have in your mind exactly what your players should be like? (whew,sorry, extremely long sentence)

Or, as I believe, do you take various types of players and utilize them to complment one another, factoring in their weakness and helping them work on them, but not to the point where what you are asking them to do is either beyond their scope (not likely in the NHL) or reduces their abilities to the point they are not as valuable a player as they otherwise might be?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wicker View Post
I'm not saying this just to kiss your ass, but you are basically saying everything I've been wanting to say about this subject for the past couple of days. .
If you told me something similar, I'd probably have to send you a bill.

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Old
02-22-2011, 02:18 AM
  #84
TonySCV
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Some Terry Murray perspective (which I needed a healthy dose of myself after that 2-10-0 run):

1. His system wins hockey games. He's been lacking key personnel all season which is resulting in a lot of the line juggling he's had to do.
2. The team has NOT tuned him out.
3. He's not going anywhere until the season end at the earliest and that's only if the Kings fall off another cliff again between now and season end.
4. He's 18th all-time in regular season wins
5. He's 7th in wins among active coaches
6. He's 22nd all-time in playoff games coached.
7. He's 22nd all-time in playoff wins.
8. He's 5th in playoff games coached and wins among active coaches.

Murray has his faults, but his teams win a LOT of hockey games.

That twitter comment was bull****. Everyone knows Murray talks every player's ear off about what they are doing right and wrong. If that weren't the case, we would have heard from chatty guys like Brad Richardson about that ages ago.

I still question Murray about why our team speed was sitting in the press box vs. the Islanders, but that's mitigated somewhat by the fact that we weren't going to win that game in retrospect with Loktionov in the lineup and Sturm (and his speed) is returning to the lineup.

Here's a fact. If Murray goes, there's very good chance that the next coach will be worse.

I would also argue pretty damn effectively that the struggles this team has endured this season have a lot more to do with Dean not addressing the gaping hole on LW this past offseason that is STILL there today than any problem with Murray's coaching.


Last edited by TonySCV: 02-22-2011 at 02:27 AM.
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Old
02-22-2011, 02:46 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
This bolded part represents what I think is a deep philosophical divide in the world of coaching sports.. DL and Co. believe they know the kind of players that it takes to succeed as an organ-eye-zation. So to acquire those types of players and in DL's case certain very specific players (Williams and Smyth) they have had to either jettison those who players who dont fit their mindset, whether they can perform well for the team or not or they have to alter the style pf those players fundamentally to suit their own management or coachng style. (I will come back to this, later) (much later as it turned out)

Now, Before all the rabid TM fans start barking me up a tree, it is a good thing that many of our core players have had to undergo the TM defensive indoctrination which they have, because surely without it they might never have learnedhpw to play defense, and unless your the mid 80's Edmonton Oilers and can score in heaps and bunches, you have to learn to play defence to have chance in the playoffs. That said, you also need to score to win, and often more than 1 or 2 goals.

So enter DL several years back, who quickly came to the opinion that one of our best scorers would never be the kind of player he would come to like or want or who wqould be valued on any team of any note. The spin then follows from the team's upper echelon, that MC couldnt play defense šnd was self-centered, and subsequently became mantra for far too many Kings fans, primarily those who were formerly (and maybe someday again to be) known as the "Apologista's." (It actually goes far beyond those not so nice feelings between DL and MC, but I digress.)
Np specualtion here, but DL's mindset is that he is going to mold this team into the Flyers of the West. Hard to play against, (minus the smashmouth), defense first, a sound "system" of hockey to tame the rambunctious but talented youngsters out in the Wild West, who simply dont get it themselves. He loves his Philly era so much, and his fond memories of Clarkee, that he goes and hires the guy who didnt win it for Philidelphia, the one who accused his team of cough, cough "Choking" in the finals (Memo to self: Dont accuse peope I need to perform for me of choking)

DL then also goes out and pursues several former Flyer players, whose style he perceives to be just what is needed to win in the post lockout era of modern hockey. He says we need, we must, develop a culture of winning and comes up with a great sound bite: If you want to play and stay for my team (he might of said the Kings, but we knew what he meant) you better have a Kings tattoo on your butt, and unless your name starts with A and ends with R, that also meant taking a hometown discount on your next contract.

The new coach comes in and takes it slowly at first patching up the defensive coverage, or lack thereof, with what was thought at the beginning to be not a very strong a defensive corps. The change was slow and gradual at first, but the team got better defensively (Thanks Harpo, Honorable Mention to DD08.) Then, not entirely unexpected they started to improve overall. As the defenseman got better with their positioning, more of the defensive work was done with the forwards, and as a result they had to alter their creative up-tempo style to something that stressed the defensive, even when they had the puck on offense. This was a style the coach was very familiar with from his stint coaching during the previous millenium.

You remember that era of hockey-gone-by when not so fleet footed wingers were assisted in their defensive assignments, and defenceman too, by a cabal of referees, well actually it was all of them, who collectively couldn't understand that the penalty for holding was actually to be called when there was holding and that interference occurred, well, when someone was interefering with or impeding the movement of another player who didnt have the puck. But even before then, it was all the way back when goalies first started wearing masks, and players were mandated to wear helmets that this style of defense made itself known, and it was simpl":, you backchecked as hard as you forechecked (Gilbert Perrault said it best "Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck") and you "got a piece of your guy" and you didnt let him get around or away from you. A hand grabbing on the inside of the arm, contact deliberately checking the opponent (without the puck) all designed to slow it all down. "The old clutch and grab" has been around seemingly forever, but if one thing is for sure in the world its that you wont last long in this league if you need to do that to stay with your defensive assignment. You wont last the season, at least not on this team (or liley any other.).

But, as you already know, that wasnt the part of the SYSTEM TM brought with him and set up to help our forwards become all the could be, at least defensively. And I think it is beyond doubt that Kopitar's play has improved dramatically on the other side of the ice. But at what cost? (But again, I am getting ahead of myself) TM trotted out the "system," at a time when we had a healthy offense. The offense that hecurrently utilizes is a system which worked very well against the trap or left wing locks 10 or more years back when, because teams like New Jersey, would clog up the nuetral ice, force you, by the efforst of one dogged forechecker, to one side of the ice or another and attempt to smoother your puck movement, trapping you between 1 - 4 defenders. This most often resulted in either a turnover or a quickly rerieved puck from the trapping teams zone. With the clutching and grabbing prevalent back then, the dump in was even harder then to retrieve than it is now. Nevertheless, it, and let me be clear, (it is the offensive system we play) is the designed perimetrer play and the practiced dump in, was oftentimes the only way to get the puck into the offensive zone against good trapping teams, and dumping it in from center ice was far more preferable than turning it over at center ice for a transitionand scoring opportunity or two going the other way.

Now, however TM and Jamie believe that because there isnt the clutching and grabbing that used to exist, and with more and more teams playing a passive 1-2-2 defense (similar in many ways to a trap defense, at least in the nuetral zone) that the dump-in is viable as an offensive attack. But Wait, that is NOT the reason they use it. They use it because the coach is SO FOCUSED on defense first, last and always, (I guess there is nothing inherently wrong with that) that he wants to make certain his players dont take the chance of turning the puck over upon entering the zone (a valid concern) because turnovers in that area do result in transition the other way which leads to shots and good scoring chances, exactly what TM does not want to see. So, No longer can the Kings be a great defensive team, and they are a very good one now, (when they up to potential) by taking chances getting the puck into the zone at their blueline. The puck has to go deep quickly. Its been stressed over and over again, by all the coaches.

Which brings me full circle (well almost) to where I started this rant. Having turned the Kings into a defensive posture first team, that same defensive focus has drastically reduced our players ability to score. If your coach wants the puck entering on the weak side for a dump in and you decide to carry it in come hell or high water whatever the results, you wont be long for the team.

As good a defensive center as Kopitar has become, I think he (the Coach really) has placed TOO HIGH a premium on that aspect and it has very much hurt his offensive production at center. Do I love his hustle on the backcheck? SURE I DO. But to see him at the ALL STAR GAME play defence like his life depended on it, I would have laughed if it didnt make me sad. Seeing that on TV, I would have loved to have been there and asked him the question: How do you feel about how the emphasis on defense first has changed the Teams performance from when you first arrived? He should think positively about that because currently the team has a + 23 or so goal differential, and they are still in the hunt. Its the answer to the follow up question that I want to hear: Do you feel that in any way your defensive responsibilities have limited or impacted the quality and quantity of your scoring chances?

Now I am not saying he shouldnt be defensively responsible, but I do think his mindset has changed from that of being a player who can score whenever he wants to to trying to do it all, and as a result doing not nearly as much as he could its why the thought of him a left wing is intriguing to me. Dont get me wrong, its great to be responsible, but we need him for offense first. Really, I am all for a great defense (what kind of defenseman would I be if I wasnt (Paul Coffey?)) but our coach does not seem to grasp the notion that speed today, a trait this team is not long on, combined with forwards with decent puck handling skills can retain the puck much more often carrying it over the blueline than by dumping it in. If Loktionov did nothing else than illustrate that point clearly in his last few games his time up was worth it.

But when the puck is carried in they also generate more scoring chances and shots too. And as far as defense goes I do know that it is a heck of alot easier to contain another team when we spend significantly more time in their zone than they do in ours. One of the best ways to do that is maintain possession of the puck in your own zone. But how many times have you heard TM or Stevens say before the 3rd period starts that we "need to keep getting the puck deep, win the battles with our cycle and chip or plug away." The cycle itself is defensive in mindset, not that it cant or doesnt work, but keeping the puck to the outside keeps the opposition from breaking through the middle into prime scoring area.

(Finally, through all that, I reach the point I starte dout to make!)

So, having jettisoned the clutch sniper who this team drafted, and who could easily supply exactly the kind of offense this team needs now and has never replaced since he left, having turned away and let go several quality prospects because they couldnt fit into the defensive first system and still be good enough to provide the offense they can and are now providing elsewhere, having dogged Frolov and made him change his style from a slashing through the lanes scorer to a welded to the wall cycler, (but excpecting him to score 30 even still, does everyone believe, or did you ever believe, that as a coach or GM, that you pressure mold your players into what you want/need them to be even if it reduces their overall abilities and do you disgard valuable players, who have a weakness in one part of their game but are very strong in others, because you have in your mind exactly what your players should be like? (whew,sorry, extremely long sentence)

Or, as I believe, do you take various types of players and utilize them to complment one another, factoring in their weakness and helping them work on them, but not to the point where what you are asking them to do is either beyond their scope (not likely in the NHL) or reduces their abilities to the point they are not as valuable a player as they otherwise might be?




If you told me something similar, I'd probably have to send you a bill.
Don't really disagree with anything you said, but just a few thoughts:

- Prior to LA, here's the last 5 teams TM was the head coach of, and how they ranked offensively.
99-00 Florida (7th)
98-99 Florida (15th)
96-97 Philly (3rd)
95-96 Philly (5th)
94-95 Philly (9th)

- It's extremely difficult to carry the puck into the offensive zone if you don't have speed built up on entry. This team never has speed on entry, so their only option is a dump in. This has more to do with the transition game then anything else.

-
Quote:
But how many times have you heard TM or Stevens say before the 3rd period starts that we "need to keep getting the puck deep, win the battles with our cycle and chip or plug away."
I think this is kind of irrelevant. Every hockey coach says this. It's cliche.

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Old
02-22-2011, 09:15 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Some Terry Murray perspective (which I needed a healthy dose of myself after that 2-10-0 run):

1. His system wins hockey games. He's been lacking key personnel all season which is resulting in a lot of the line juggling he's had to do.
2. The team has NOT tuned him out.
3. He's not going anywhere until the season end at the earliest and that's only if the Kings fall off another cliff again between now and season end.
4. He's 18th all-time in regular season wins
5. He's 7th in wins among active coaches
6. He's 22nd all-time in playoff games coached.
7. He's 22nd all-time in playoff wins.
8. He's 5th in playoff games coached and wins among active coaches.

Murray has his faults, but his teams win a LOT of hockey games.

That twitter comment was bull****. Everyone knows Murray talks every player's ear off about what they are doing right and wrong. If that weren't the case, we would have heard from chatty guys like Brad Richardson about that ages ago.

I still question Murray about why our team speed was sitting in the press box vs. the Islanders, but that's mitigated somewhat by the fact that we weren't going to win that game in retrospect with Loktionov in the lineup and Sturm (and his speed) is returning to the lineup.

Here's a fact. If Murray goes, there's very good chance that the next coach will be worse.

I would also argue pretty damn effectively that the struggles this team has endured this season have a lot more to do with Dean not addressing the gaping hole on LW this past offseason that is STILL there today than any problem with Murray's coaching.
Well said and with conviction. TM is a wizard. He has done admirably with what he has had to work with. I can also understand the DL stall. What he has been able to build is special a lot of people in the hockey world have stated so. To throw it away for a trade for trade sake wont happen. DL has said all along he does not want to get rid of the core. Loki has really showed lately as well as Lewis and Martinez. Plus what has been going on in Manchester. I can see or understand the stall. I think he would love to do it via FA. But players have been resigning or the prices are to high with the buyers market. Kinda the perfect storm for us. We got the talent coming up but can we wait. I can.

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02-22-2011, 10:18 AM
  #87
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Don't really disagree with anything you said, but just a few thoughts:

- Prior to LA, here's the last 5 teams TM was the head coach of, and how they ranked offensively.
99-00 Florida (7th)
98-99 Florida (15th)
96-97 Philly (3rd)
95-96 Philly (5th)
94-95 Philly (9th)

- It's extremely difficult to carry the puck into the offensive zone if you don't have speed built up on entry. This team never has speed on entry, so their only option is a dump in. This has more to do with the transition game then anything else.

-I think this is kind of irrelevant. Every hockey coach says this. It's cliche.
No one said his system didn't work before the lockout. It is that the system doesn't work as well today. 2011 is very different than 2000. There is a reason he was out of coaching for so long before Dean dusted him off. He was perfect for two years. Giving him an extension was stupid and when Dallas went full retard and fired Tippett, Dean should have hired him and removed Murray.

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02-22-2011, 10:31 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
No one said his system didn't work before the lockout. It is that the system doesn't work as well today. 2011 is very different than 2000. There is a reason he was out of coaching for so long before Dean dusted him off. He was perfect for two years. Giving him an extension was stupid and when Dallas went full retard and fired Tippett, Dean should have hired him and removed Murray.
Wasn't PHX one of the worst Offensive teams last year ?


Last edited by damacles1156: 02-22-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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02-22-2011, 10:35 AM
  #89
driller1
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Wasn't PHX one of the worst Offensive teams last years ?
Yea, and look at the Caps. They quickly found out that the fun-and-gun system doesn't work in the playoffs. They went to a defense first system this year and look at their offensive results.

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02-22-2011, 10:39 AM
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Yea, and look at the Caps. They quickly found out that the fun-and-gun system doesn't work in the playoffs. They went to a defense first system this year and look at their offensive results.
I just find it funny that people think that Tippet and Totz are such good coaches (Wizard ETC). They both have their teams play just as boring hockey as TM does.

Defense first systems. Don't get me wrong they are both Great Coaches. But to think they are going to come to the Kings; and all of a sudden the Kings are going to be lighting up the scoreboard. And be any less boring, is well.....Stupid.

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02-22-2011, 10:40 AM
  #91
Gentle Ben Kenobi
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02-22-2011, 09:25 PM
  #92
johnjm22
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
No one said his system didn't work before the lockout. It is that the system doesn't work as well today. 2011 is very different than 2000.
I never said otherwise, but keep in mind that there are many coaches who have been successful in both the pre and post lockout eras. Tippett and Lemaire's winning % have basically been unaffected by the "New NHL."

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