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Trade Deadline Talk II

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:29 PM
  #976
MountainHawk
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No rookie defenseman is going to replace a defenseman with 120 regular season and a Stanley Cup run of experience under his belt. Defenseman take experience to be great defensively. He might replace most of the offensive production, but the Penguins defense is definitively worse.

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02-21-2011, 05:31 PM
  #977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Niskanen does suck but They have Despres to step in. guys in the minors to step in when you trade away a decent top 4 guy. What a novel concept that this organization doesnt get.
That's a luxury that not many teams have, and when they do they tend to avail themselves of the prospects services, so that they might shore up a weakness elsewhere by trading the other d-man away, as was the case. It's not like having atop four d man sitting in the minors is the norm around the league.



That said....what the ****! How did Shero pull that off? I'll admit it, I'm mad. That was a great score for them, and Neal is really going to make Crosby that much more dangerous. Unhappy camper right here!

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:35 PM
  #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
That's a luxury that not many teams have, and when they do they tend to avail themselves of the prospects services, so that they might shore up a weakness elsewhere by trading the other d-man away, as was the case. It's not like having atop four d man sitting in the minors is the norm around the league.


That said....what the ****! How did Shero pull that off? I'll admit it, I'm mad. That was a great score for them, and Neal is really going to make Crosby that much more dangerous. Unhappy camper right here!
its a luxury most teams have. most teams have some resemblance of a farm system in the AHL. Take a look at the better teams in the NHL, most have guys on their AHL team that are close to or who are ready to step in, and no I am not talking about garbage like Walker and Leighton and the rest of the garbage vets we have in Adirondack.

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:44 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Dallas got a significant upgrade on D and cap space for a very good winger, which they have a number of.
I guess, but James Neal has scored at least 20 goals per season so far. It should have been Goligolski +, not Neal +.

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:48 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
its a luxury most teams have. most teams have some resemblance of a farm system in the AHL. Take a look at the better teams in the NHL, most have guys on their AHL team that are close to or who are ready to step in, and no I am not talking about garbage like Walker and Leighton and the rest of the garbage vets we have in Adirondack.
Sure, but the Flyers core is young, so we don't have the need as much as teams that older.

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Old
02-21-2011, 05:59 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Sure, but the Flyers core is young, so we don't have the need as much as teams that older.
so what happens when we cant afford all this young talent.

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02-21-2011, 06:05 PM
  #982
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Where is that an issue? Carter and Richards are signed for another decade. Giroux is signed for another 3 seasons. The supporting cast is around for another 2-4 seasons too (Hartnell 2, Briere 4, Timo 2, Pronger 5, Meszaros 3.

Versteeg and JVR are both RFA when they expire after next season, so we'll either resign them, or we'll get a boatload of draft picks.

It's going to be an issue in 2014, but we could restock pretty fast if we hold onto picks for 2012 and 2013.

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Old
02-21-2011, 06:09 PM
  #983
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I just think that just because our "core" is young is that its acceptable to completely ignore our farm system and take chances with marginal college talent. Thats all I was trying to get at.

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Old
02-21-2011, 06:14 PM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I just think that just because our "core" is young is that its acceptable to completely ignore our farm system and take chances with marginal college talent. Thats all I was trying to get at.
You can't do it all all the time. The Flyers are trying to win a cup right now.

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Old
02-21-2011, 06:15 PM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so Leighton goes from a scrub who was up and down on the wiaver wire to suddenly become a good goaltender who had ONE good stretch in his NHL career and is worthy of a 1.5 million dollar deal. k then.
Yes, that is normally how it is done. If any goalie plays in the NHL and is in a contract year and puts up good numbers for a team, you can bet they will get the type of raise Leighton got. Its not like they gave him a DiPietro deal. It is a 2 year $3.1 mil deal. Which is what happens when you play well. Think about it. When you are negotiating a contract, the team's side isn't going to get anywhere with signing players by only looking at what they did before last season. Yeah, it comes into play but that isn't all that matters. If that were the case Mike Modano wouldn't be making $1.75 mil. He has had one hell of a career so just because he is getting old he deserves more money because he played well before then? No, he gets less money because his stats and skills are declining. Leighton (and many other players) was in a different position. He had his first good season with the Flyers and was in a contract. He will benefit from that. You can't say well yeah last year you played well but before that you sucked so you don't get anything. If that were how it worked it would take a while for players to get some of the money they are getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Did you watch the SCFs?

You're acting like this is hindsight critique... when, in fact, some of us were harping on Leighton being a looming disaster all along. It's easy to look good defensively and as a goalie against weak offenses (they, ya know, aren't as good at scoring goals). Leighton blew up as many of us predicted when he faced a good offense.

He didn't play poorly against the Blackhawks, he played like Michael Leighton... a not so good goalie.
This goes back to what I say every time we get into this argument. I AM NOT SAYING THAT MICHAEL LEIGHTON IS SOME SUPERSTAR GOALIE. I KNOW HE IS NOT AN ELITE GOALTENDER. I KNOW HE IS PROBABLY JUST AVERAGE AT BEST. But when you have the type of season he had for the Flyers last year, you get a raise. It isn't a difficult concept. The fact that it is a shocking amount of nearly a $1 million dollar rase for a player that was the goalie for the Eastern Conference champions, had multiple playoff shutouts, and did a pretty damn good job in helping to salvage last season from utter disappointment is not really such a travesty. Just curious. What would you have signed him for? More or less than $1 mil a year?

Quote:
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I want you think about this statement real hard. They were specifically a terrible indication of what the market would be like. The market was exactly what everyone expected, a ****-tastic one if you were an UFA goalie. Nabokov ended up in the KHL, and Turco ended up taking a cheap one-year deal in Chicago.

Holmgren could have waited and gotten a better deal.
This may be true. I'm not saying he couldn't have gotten a better deal, but as the GM, attempting to sign the two best goalies and offering them at least double what they paid for Leighton and both of them turning it down is an indicator of what the market will be like. Yes, Turco and Nabby turned out to be bad indicators of what the market would be like. But if you don't strike you could miss out on Leighton, Ellis, Mason, etc all together. So could he have gotten a better deal? Maybe. Maybe Leighton signs somewhere else. Maybe they get Dan Ellis or Chris Mason. But Homer didn't want to risk it after seeing first hand what people were turning down.


Quote:
And that is a terrible argument justifying that deal.
Not really. The article says that of people with similar career stats he is making more money. While it may have some bearing, you don't get signed to contracts based solely on career stats. If that were the case, than that article is proof positive that this was a blatant overpayment. It fails to factor in team needs, the previous season's stats/play, the goalie market, and many other factors. This article only proves that Leighton has the 72nd highest save percentage among goalies over the last ten years. I highly doubt GMs are consulting this list when signing players. They are looking at stats form last season and how the player played then. People can improve and people can regress. If all you looked at was career stats things would be a lot different.

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Old
02-21-2011, 06:17 PM
  #986
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****ing Ray Shero...I hate that guy. He really is trying to come at our ****.



At least the Niskanen- Engelland pairing has the potential to get blasted in the ass by whatever third pairing the Flyers or Bruins roll out.

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Old
02-21-2011, 06:19 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
You can't do it all all the time. The Flyers are trying to win a cup right now.
That depends. So is Vancouver - the only team with more points than the Flyers. Take a look at all the defensemen they had to use. Yann Sauve started the year in the ECHL.

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Old
02-21-2011, 06:22 PM
  #988
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Haha, this was just posted on Twitter...


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