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Should the Flyers Retire 88?

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Old
02-21-2011, 07:50 PM
  #51
MountainHawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We both know that Ashbee is an exception for a very specific reason.
So let's retire Primeau's number then.

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02-21-2011, 07:57 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
So let's retire Primeau's number then.
As soon as he wins that Cup for us.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
So let's retire Primeau's number then.
I missed out on the parade, I guess.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:11 PM
  #54
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I don't like retiring numbers anyway.

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02-21-2011, 08:15 PM
  #55
Jester
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Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
I don't like retiring numbers anyway.
I like it, but it should be a truly special thing. Not something you do just because you want to retire numbers (this argument that a generation is being ignored... if there aren't any worthy players, then that's the way it is). If you check out Denver, they retire everyone's number... it's crazy. I thought them retiring Bourque, for example, was a massive slap in the face to Boston. It's nice that he went to Denver and won a Cup there, but that's making a claim to the legacy of Bourque that is completely and utterly absurd.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:21 PM
  #56
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The organization rewards winners and truly special players. Leave it that way. We should be holding a higher standard than some of these other organizations.

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02-21-2011, 08:29 PM
  #57
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No cup, no HOF, no retired number.

It really is as simple as all of that. I can't justify retiring 10, because you'd have to retire 2, 12, and a couple of other numbers.

I like that you can be in the Flyers HOF and not have your number retired. It honors the great and the truly legendary players accordingly.

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02-21-2011, 08:35 PM
  #58
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Ashbee was on a team that won the Cup, but he got hurt before the Finals. If not for his story, it likely would have been Ed Van Impe instead. Both are of the same ilk of guys like Glen Wesley or Ken Daneyko where only fans of the teams will get it.

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Old
02-21-2011, 09:52 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Ashbee was on a team that won the Cup, but he got hurt before the Finals. If not for his story, it likely would have been Ed Van Impe instead. Both are of the same ilk of guys like Glen Wesley or Ken Daneyko where only fans of the teams will get it.
It's just an extreme situation. First expansion team Cup, and the guy gets a career ending injury in the process. Overreaction happens.

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:00 PM
  #60
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Being part of a cup winning team should have no bearing on whether an individual number is retired. It's not an individual award, it takes a team to win.

The idea that Parent or Clarke wouldn't have their numbers retired if they hadn't won a cup is absurd. If Gretzky hadn't ever won a cup, his number shouldn't be retired? It should be based solely on individual achievements.

That being said, Lindros in no way deserves to have 88 retired. I loved the guy, he should be in the Flyers HOF for sure, but that's it.

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02-21-2011, 10:02 PM
  #61
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If you don't think winning a championship plays a huge role in a player's legacy, I don't know what to tell you. Moreover, the issue isn't whether anyone else feels that's a good standard, it's the standard the Flyers have set. The only guys in the rafters are Ashbee (discussed situation) and three guys with two Cups and the HHoF on their resume.

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:28 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If you don't think winning a championship plays a huge role in a player's legacy, I don't know what to tell you. Moreover, the issue isn't whether anyone else feels that's a good standard, it's the standard the Flyers have set. The only guys in the rafters are Ashbee (discussed situation) and three guys with two Cups and the HHoF on their resume.
No I don't. That's why I said it was absurd. You don't need to tell me anything, I didn't ask you.

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02-21-2011, 10:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by phillyflu View Post
No I don't. That's why I said it was absurd. You don't need to tell me anything, I didn't ask you.
You don't need to post on a public message board, you did.

So, you don't think Mark Messier's legacy was altered considerably by the fact that he won Cups? How about Steve Yzerman? Stevie Y was known as a good player that couldn't lead his team out of a paper bag... and then what happened? He won a championship.

Similarly, Lindros' legacy was marked by the fact that he never won anything, which was part of a larger story about his abject failure as a leader. Prima donna brats tend not to lead their teams to a whole lot of glory.

Winning a championship isn't the end all be all, but it is what playing the sport is ultimately about: winning. Bobby Clarke wouldn't be known as one of the better leaders in the history of the sport if he never won a Cup. Them the stakes.

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02-22-2011, 12:29 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
There will be a huge number of Flyers number retirements when the idiot club of Clarke and Snider finally move on.
idiot club? Clarke was the best player this organization ever had and Snider is a great owner. getting your number up in the rafters isnt a popularity contest, sorry. So Lindros wont get his number up in the rafters.

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02-22-2011, 01:40 AM
  #65
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The "idiot club" has helped put a consistently competitive team on the ice for over 30 years now, and has a record that most other fans would be jealous of. So when you say idiot, this immediately comes to mind:


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02-22-2011, 02:32 AM
  #66
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Nope... which is a shame. Had all the bad **** not gone down, and if the organization was more aware and cautious with his concussions... things may have been different.

His parents also killed his chances, they seemed very overbearing (mostly his dad, since he was also his agent).

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02-22-2011, 02:59 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
If Lindros wasn't good enough or with the Flyers long enough, let's take Ashbee down. Lindros was the only time in Flyers history where we had the best player in the NHL for a couple of seasons.
really ?

#16 Hart Memorial Trophy - 1973, 75, 76



had lindros been more successful, like Bobby Clarke, he'd be in the HHOF and his # retired.....he wasn't

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02-22-2011, 08:39 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by 04' hockey View Post
really ?

#16 Hart Memorial Trophy - 1973, 75, 76



had lindros been more successful, like Bobby Clarke, he'd be in the HHOF and his # retired.....he wasn't
There's a decent chance Lindros will wind up in the HHoF given the precedent of Neely.

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02-22-2011, 08:56 AM
  #69
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No, next number to get retired has to have won a Stanley Cup, period.

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02-22-2011, 10:01 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
There's a decent chance Lindros will wind up in the HHoF given the precedent of Neely.
I absolutely think Lindros deserves to be in the HHOF, but no retired number. Mark Howe deserves to be in too, but probably won't because the voters are stupid.

We've got enough retired numbers already. 'No' to LeClair, Hextall/Leach or anyone else.

I posted this in another thread, but if/when the Flyers win the Cup, we can talk about retiring some of those key players. Will that be Pronger? Richards? Carter? Bobrovsky?

It's way too early yet.

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02-22-2011, 10:48 AM
  #71
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How in the world can anyone say anything bad about Ed Snider's tenor as owner of the Flyers. He's one of the best owners in all of sports and respected throughout the league for how the organ-i-zation is run. He built the buildings, brought the team to philly and kept it very competitive for almost every year since inception. The man is an institution.

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Old
02-22-2011, 11:21 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I absolutely think Lindros deserves to be in the HHOF, but no retired number. Mark Howe deserves to be in too, but probably won't because the voters are stupid.

We've got enough retired numbers already. 'No' to LeClair, Hextall/Leach or anyone else.

I posted this in another thread, but if/when the Flyers win the Cup, we can talk about retiring some of those key players. Will that be Pronger? Richards? Carter? Bobrovsky?

It's way too early yet.
I personally don't think it should be Pronger. Even if we win a Cup before he retires, I still wouldn't want it to be Pronger, I don't think.

When I think of jerseys being retired by a franchise, I think of a player who exemplified that franchise for a long and significant portion of his career. Pronger being here for only the last 5 years, having already won a Cup elsewhere...I don't know. I just don't know that, when Pronger's career is all said and done, he will only or mostly be thought of as a Flyer.

In my estimation, to be retired by this franchise, you must have made your career here, won a championship, and been a truly outstanding player...barring significant unfortunate circumstances (Ashbee).

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Old
02-22-2011, 11:34 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I absolutely think Lindros deserves to be in the HHOF, but no retired number. Mark Howe deserves to be in too, but probably won't because the voters are stupid.
.
its just a numbers game. it doesnt matter how well you play the position anymore. Just like the trophys that are given out in todays game.

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Old
02-22-2011, 11:35 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I personally don't think it should be Pronger. Even if we win a Cup before he retires, I still wouldn't want it to be Pronger, I don't think.

When I think of jerseys being retired by a franchise, I think of a player who exemplified that franchise for a long and significant portion of his career. Pronger being here for only the last 5 years, having already won a Cup elsewhere...I don't know. I just don't know that, when Pronger's career is all said and done, he will only or mostly be thought of as a Flyer.

In my estimation, to be retired by this franchise, you must have made your career here, won a championship, and been a truly outstanding player...barring significant unfortunate circumstances (Ashbee).
I agree with this 100%

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Old
02-22-2011, 12:11 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by RyK15 View Post
It'll have been Pronger once all's said and done.
Yup, His number will be raised. 44 in St. Louis. 25 in Anaheim. Maybe 44 in Edmonton too. Unless he carries this team to consecutive cup titles before his contract/career runs out, he won't be in our rafters. This team is built so he won't have to carry us.

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