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When will we win the division?

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Old
02-21-2011, 06:22 PM
  #26
HatTrick Swayze
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When the Angels win the pennant.

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02-21-2011, 07:33 PM
  #27
Kel Varnsen
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The same people who were touting the isles as a threat this year seem to just be doubling down on that. They are young. They have quantity in youth, not as much quality though.

Tavares is never going to be an elite goal scorer. Never. He can be very good, but not elite. You can't be an elite goalscorer if you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself, and you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself if you can't skate. Tavares can't skate.

They have no goalie.

They hired their backup goalie to be GM and their owner is Charles Wang. Bad as Dolan is, he's no Charles Wang. The isles are a joke of a franchise.

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02-21-2011, 08:13 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
The same people who were touting the isles as a threat this year seem to just be doubling down on that. They are young. They have quantity in youth, not as much quality though.

Tavares is never going to be an elite goal scorer. Never. He can be very good, but not elite. You can't be an elite goalscorer if you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself, and you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself if you can't skate. Tavares can't skate.

They have no goalie.

They hired their backup goalie to be GM and their owner is Charles Wang. Bad as Dolan is, he's no Charles Wang. The isles are a joke of a franchise.
Im not sold the Islanders will be a force in the future, but John Tavares will be a better player than any Ranger coming up through our system - and by a pretty wide margin, in my opinion.

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02-21-2011, 10:34 PM
  #29
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We will win the division before the Isles do. You don't develop young players by teaching them to lose, you teach them to win. The Islanders are a disgrace to the NHL. The new CBA has allowed a shrewd businessman in Wang to to create the NHL's version of the Detriot Lions, Scramento Kings, and KC Royals. Niel Smith was fired because he wouldn't play the game. Garth Snow is his puppet GM.

The Rangers will just make it to the playoffs. Their young players will get a taste for it. Sather is right to NOT sell the farm for rentals, NYR is in a different position then Boston. Once he'll continue to retain the team's core over the years to come as they closer and closer while augmenting the team with UFAs (something the Islanders can't or won't be able to do because of their reputation which is absolutely ruined at this point. It wasn't long ago UFA's didn't want to sign with NYR either.)

The 92-93 Season injuries on the Rangers allowed the opportunities for other younger players to step up. We all know what happened the following year.


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02-21-2011, 10:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
The same people who were touting the isles as a threat this year seem to just be doubling down on that. They are young. They have quantity in youth, not as much quality though.
No one claimed that the Islanders were going to be a threat this year, just that they'd show signs of improvement. Hard to say that they haven't when their best player and one of their top 2-3 forwards have been injured all year, with Streit not returning at all this season.

Their prospect pool is hardly the league's best, but de Haan and Hamonic are both terrific blueline prospects and Nino and Nelson are both solid forward prospects. Not bad, considering they already have Tavares, Moulson, Grabner, Okposo, and Nielsen already on the big club.

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Tavares is never going to be an elite goal scorer. Never. He can be very good, but not elite. You can't be an elite goalscorer if you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself, and you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself if you can't skate. Tavares can't skate.
And yet he's still easily better than any player that the Rangers have in their system. He's been at a more than PPG pace over the last 2 or 3 months, BTW.

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They have no goalie.
Maybe, maybe not. In any event, getting a goalie in the NHL isn't particularly challenging these days. I doubt they're very concerned about finding a goaltender. When their team is ready to take the next step, they won't have a problem finding a goaltender.


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They hired their backup goalie to be GM and their owner is Charles Wang. Bad as Dolan is, he's no Charles Wang. The isles are a joke of a franchise.
With just as many Stanley Cup wins as this joke of a franchise. Not really sure what being a backup goalie has to do with the job that Garth Snow has done, which has been at the very least decent. Certainly much better than the job Glen Sather has done, given the VAST difference in extenuating circumstances that each have to deal with.

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02-21-2011, 11:08 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
Tavares is never going to be an elite goal scorer. Never. He can be very good, but not elite. You can't be an elite goalscorer if you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself, and you can't create your own scoring chances by yourself if you can't skate. Tavares can't skate.
He's going to score 30 goals this year, as a 20-year old. With minimal established talent around him. Absolutely no reason to think he won't become a 40-goal scorer. Is that elite? Who freaking cares, it's 40 goals.

I've seen him create his own offense plenty. He's an ace at picking up lose pucks and getting them to the net. And he's a smart player. He knows where to be to turn a benign and uneventful possession into legitimate goal scoring opportunities. And he's getting better and better.

I fully expect him to become perennially a top ten player in this league in the next few years.

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02-21-2011, 11:12 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He's going to score 30 goals this year, as a 20-year old. With minimal established talent around him. Absolutely no reason to think he won't become a 40-goal scorer. Is that elite? Who freaking cares, it's a 40 goals.

I've seen him create his own offense plenty. He's an ace at picking up lose pucks and getting them to the net. And he's a smart player. He knows where to be to turn a benign and uneventful possession into legitimate goal scoring opportunities. And he's getting better and better.

I fully expect him to become perennially a top ten player in this league in the next few years.
Agree fully. Just watching him against the Cats today, he was phenomenal at making something out of nothing. Watch the replay of the first goal. Tavares made an unreal play to get Moulson the puck, he swiveled and forced his way to the back of the net, and beat two Panthers down low to feed Moulson for the goal. It was incredible to watch. Who cares if he doesn't have much speed? He's very strong on his skates, and down low around the boards, to go with his absolutely off the charts hockey sense. He's gonna be a damn good player for a long, long time. Tavares with Moulson is already magic. Imagine them together when Tavares gets fully comfortable at the NHL level. It's gonna be scary.

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02-21-2011, 11:40 PM
  #33
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
No one claimed that the Islanders were going to be a threat this year, just that they'd show signs of improvement. Hard to say that they haven't when their best player and one of their top 2-3 forwards have been injured all year, with Streit not returning at all this season.

Maybe, maybe not. In any event, getting a goalie in the NHL isn't particularly challenging these days. I doubt they're very concerned about finding a goaltender. When their team is ready to take the next step, they won't have a problem finding a goaltender.
The part I bolded if just a flat out lie. I usually disagree with your constant pessimism but I didn't know you as one to lie, and to say no one was saying the isles might be a threat this year is a lie.

On the other part there, I guess we should trade Henrik then. Right?

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02-22-2011, 12:00 AM
  #34
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
The part I bolded if just a flat out lie. I usually disagree with your constant pessimism but I didn't know you as one to lie, and to say no one was saying the isles might be a threat this year is a lie.

On the other part there, I guess we should trade Henrik then. Right?
Yeah, clearly we should trade Henrik. That's exactly what I'm saying.

My constant pessimism? Like when I talk about Ryan Callahan being the best role player in the league today? Henrik Lundqvist being one of the top 3 goalies in the league? When I talk about Michael Sauer, Jesper Fasth, Pavel Valentenko, Ryan McDonagh, Christian Thomas, etc...all constant pessimism. Maybe to you, I guess. But you're like the Squealer to Sather's Napoleon.

If anybody said that the Islanders would be a threat this season, then they aren't worth listening to in the first place, unless they meant threat as in a threat to improve on their performance from last season.

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02-22-2011, 01:13 AM
  #35
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Yeah, clearly we should trade Henrik. That's exactly what I'm saying.

My constant pessimism? Like when I talk about Ryan Callahan being the best role player in the league today? Henrik Lundqvist being one of the top 3 goalies in the league? When I talk about Michael Sauer, Jesper Fasth, Pavel Valentenko, Ryan McDonagh, Christian Thomas, etc...all constant pessimism. Maybe to you, I guess. But you're like the Squealer to Sather's Napoleon.

If anybody said that the Islanders would be a threat this season, then they aren't worth listening to in the first place, unless they meant threat as in a threat to improve on their performance from last season.
You said every team can find a goalie easy. That a goalie won't stop the isles from being very dangerous in the future. Seems like you don't really think Hank is all that valuable.

I didn't say you hate every specific player on the team. You do however think the future isn't bright. And so in the most important sense you are constantly pessimistic. You think we have no chance to win now, and no chance to win in the foreseeable future.

Perhaps so, but neither of us restricted our comments to only worthwhile knowledgeable people. It was simply that there were significant minorities of people saying the isles would be a threat this year, which you then said wasn't true that actually no one was saying that. Perhaps you didn't actually mean it that way, but that's what you said.

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02-22-2011, 01:16 AM
  #36
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Kevin Poulin has looked good for the Isles, but he had a freak injury in practice and is out for the season. Still he's only 20 (IIRC) and has a solid skillset.

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02-22-2011, 01:36 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
You said every team can find a goalie easy. That a goalie won't stop the isles from being very dangerous in the future. Seems like you don't really think Hank is all that valuable.
First of all, I never said the Islanders were ever going to be very dangerous. I just think you're an incredibly biased homer and you're selling them way short. The last thing any fan of this franchise has a right to say about any other franchise is that they are a joke. As far as their goaltending situation, all I said was that goaltending isn't hard to find in this league. How you go from there to me not thinking Lundqvist is not valuable, I don't know. Even if it os becoming more and more obvious that you can win in this league without having elite goaltending, provided the rest of your team is top notch, having an elite goaltender like Lundqvist is a positive. For this team, it's a must, since Lundqvist is the only part of the team that is top notch.

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I didn't say you hate every specific player on the team. You do however think the future isn't bright. And so in the most important sense you are constantly pessimistic. You think we have no chance to win now, and no chance to win in the foreseeable future.
That's not true. I think we can win...provided that we get Brad Richards, at least. Also, at what point does now become the future? Because when now was last season and the present was the future, we didn't win. We aren't winning now. If my "pessimism" is justified year after year, at what point do I stop being a pessimist and start being a realist?

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Perhaps so, but neither of us restricted our comments to only worthwhile knowledgeable people. It was simply that there were significant minorities of people saying the isles would be a threat this year, which you then said wasn't true that actually no one was saying that. Perhaps you didn't actually mean it that way, but that's what you said.
Significant minorities? How significant, exactly? Who said this and where are these comments?

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02-22-2011, 05:46 AM
  #38
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Im not sold the Islanders will be a force in the future, but John Tavares will be a better player than any Ranger coming up through our system - and by a pretty wide margin, in my opinion.
i agree 100% . Tavares may not be a burner but he has something not even Gaborik has any more pure goal scoring instinct/skill. I pray Kreider with allhis speed and size can have 1/2 the touch around the net of JT. JT is an almost point a game player at 20 . The one knock on him and any of the Isles scoring is they are playing loose and with house money and under Both gordon and capuano played the safe is death game that Torts wishes he could play .I wonder how their individualstats would be if they played a more defensive grind it out game like us The diffferance with the Isles and us is that we have Goaltending and are commited to play to win enough to jsut make the play offs while the Isles are playing at the league cap minimum and they are still paying Yashin. If the Isles get their building ever with ,JT Okposo,Bailey Comeau , Hamonic Macdonald ,Grabner and MM they have IMO a far beter offensive core than us . IN MSG world with high priced seats and coaches and players not making hte playoffs in at lest the 8 seed is fianacially unacceptable and generally leads to coaches losing their big coaching contracts . The menatlity of being just good enough to maybe make a run with a hot goalie will never lead you to a division let alone a cup .The Flyers team who made it tothe finals as an 8th seed was a far better team than their seed ,i think they are proving that this year .

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02-22-2011, 05:50 AM
  #39
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I dont think it helps that we have played in one of the most competitive divisions in the league year in and year out.

Flyers had a good portion of the 70's
Islanders had the late 70's and most of the 80's...
we snuck in there a bit i nthe late 80/90's
Pens emerged early 90's again snuck in there in 1994
Then the Devils and FLyers went bac kand forth for a while and then it was mainly the devils post conucussed lindros.

Now its the penguins and flyers jockying back and forth for the next 5-6 years probably.

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