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Old
02-22-2011, 12:15 AM
  #26
The Tikkanen
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I would've waited to write this article til after the deadline.

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02-22-2011, 12:20 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Thats kinda the point, if JJ is to much for Neal (or that much better than Goligoski) then who would the Kings trade??? We know Dallas has needed defense all year, and that was probably all they were willing to accept for Neal. There is a giant gap in the Kings depth chart as far as value goes from JJ to Amart or any other prospect. So in theory the Kings/Stars would not have made great trading partners (without adding in other factors).
Not to mention that the Pens are about as far from the Pacific division as you can get.

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02-22-2011, 12:20 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Why would Neal cost Johnson? Has anyone officially stated that was what it would cost, or are you making that up?

Johnson >>>>>> Goligoski


I get that Dallas and the Kings are in the same division, and L.A. probably would have had to overpay for Neal (unless Dallas just wanted to get rid of him which appear to be the case), but I have yet to see that Dallas was asking for Johnson in return.
Because clearly Dallas wanted a D man for Neal, and the only two D-men we have that are as good or better than Gologoski would be Johnson or Doughty. There's no way of knowing if Dallas/LA discussed Neal, but if they did, it would have almost guaranteed centred around a defenseman as good as or greater than Gologoski. Would you trade Doughty or Johnson for Neal and Niskanen? I doubt it, nevermind the fact Dallas may ask for more simply because we are in the same conference.

I'm sure if Pittsburgh had landed Neal for a few draft picks DL would have been involved, but for Johnson/Doughty he'd have been lynched if he did that deal.

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02-22-2011, 12:23 AM
  #29
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Whether it's a buyers market or a sellers market it's not a Dean Lombardi market. He likes to do 2 things only. Attain players and staff from old teams he was previously involved with and further to this, he likes to watch prospects get older, which allows him to take no risk further protecting his job... In this NHL you can turn around a team in 3 years. After 5 years in we are in danger of missing the playoffs ... With 23 games remaining we still week to week alter the lineup due to a lack of proactive management. The fact he will manage after this season shows us that the upper executive(above Lombardi and above Luc) in this organization do not understand the game. Luc must be truly disgusted at what he witnesses and is essentially involved in... We need a managerial movement and I am not talking about someone on the staff taking a #2....

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02-22-2011, 12:29 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Whether it's a buyers market or a sellers market it's not a Dean Lombardi market. He likes to do 2 things only. Attain players and staff from old teams he was previously involved with and further to this, he likes to watch prospects get older, which allows him to take no risk further protecting his job... In this NHL you can turn around a team in 3 years. After 5 years in we are in danger of missing the playoffs ... With 23 games remaining we still week to week alter the lineup due to a lack of proactive management. The fact he will manage after this season shows us that the upper executive(above Lombardi and above Luc) in this organization do not understand the game. Luc must be truly disgusted at what he witnesses and is essentially involved in... We need a managerial movement and I am not talking about someone on the staff taking a #2....
LOLOL, I know many people on here like to bash Murray for changing up the lines, but its a NHL wide thing. Not sure if people (out side of Kim Johnsson mod)know but when the Kings played Philly they were messing with their lines. It outraged the fans...now ask yourself this, why the hell was (arguably) the best team in the league messing up their lines...not to mention they continue to yank Zherdev in and out of the line-up (sound like some team you know) and guess who they put in his place?? O yea Shelly and Carcillo....fighters (pre-Steeg obviously)

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02-22-2011, 12:30 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I would've waited to write this article til after the deadline.
A) He does do a a big trade, Helen takes credit as the motivator for calling him out publicly.
B) He doesn't do anything, or does a mid-tier Jeff Halpern type deal, Helen says I told you so.

Win win

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02-22-2011, 12:32 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Because clearly Dallas wanted a D man for Neal, and the only two D-men we have that are as good or better than Gologoski would be Johnson or Doughty. There's no way of knowing if Dallas/LA discussed Neal, but if they did, it would have almost guaranteed centred around a defenseman as good as or greater than Gologoski. Would you trade Doughty or Johnson for Neal and Niskanen? I doubt it, nevermind the fact Dallas may ask for more simply because we are in the same conference.

I'm sure if Pittsburgh had landed Neal for a few draft picks DL would have been involved, but for Johnson/Doughty he'd have been lynched if he did that deal.
I agree with this.

However, I feel that we won't know how good our lower-tier defensemen are until we give them NHL minutes. Are Voynov, Muzzin, and Hickey ready for the big stage? Considering the depth at D, I might have considered trading Johnson for Neal.

At least DL would fill a glaring hole without necessarily opening up a new one. Yeah it would suck to lose JJ, but you have to give to get.

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02-22-2011, 12:35 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Whether it's a buyers market or a sellers market it's not a Dean Lombardi market. He likes to do 2 things only. Attain players and staff from old teams he was previously involved with and further to this, he likes to watch prospects get older, which allows him to take no risk further protecting his job... In this NHL you can turn around a team in 3 years. After 5 years in we are in danger of missing the playoffs ... With 23 games remaining we still week to week alter the lineup due to a lack of proactive management. The fact he will manage after this season shows us that the upper executive(above Lombardi and above Luc) in this organization do not understand the game. Luc must be truly disgusted at what he witnesses and is essentially involved in... We need a managerial movement and I am not talking about someone on the staff taking a #2....
Turn a team around in 3 years, from where the Kings where? Brian Burke school of management eh? LOL Ask Leaf fans how that's working out for them...

As far as DL only getting players he was associated with, you would think the acquisition of Ryan Smyth, Willie Mitchell and Alexei Ponikarovsky would put that stupid rumour to bed.

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02-22-2011, 12:37 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
A) He does do a a big trade, Helen takes credit as the motivator for calling him out publicly.
B) He doesn't do anything, or does a mid-tier Jeff Halpern type deal, Helen says I told you so.

Win win
I just look at the number of trades, the number of surprising trades and I don't see why the Kings won't possibly be involved in the next 6 days. Given the bare free agent market this summer GM's will hit the panic button eventually.

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02-22-2011, 12:41 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Turn a team around in 3 years, from where the Kings where? Brian Burke school of management eh? LOL Ask Leaf fans how that's working out for them...

As far as DL only getting players he was associated with, you would think the acquisition of Ryan Smyth, Willie Mitchell and Alexei Ponikarovsky would put that stupid rumour to bed.
Let's not forget to add Stoll, Greene, Richardson, and Scuderi.

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02-22-2011, 12:44 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
I agree with this.

However, I feel that we won't know how good our lower-tier defensemen are until we give them NHL minutes. Are Voynov, Muzzin, and Hickey ready for the big stage? Considering the depth at D, I might have considered trading Johnson for Neal.

At least DL would fill a glaring hole without necessarily opening up a new one. Yeah it would suck to lose JJ, but you have to give to get.
I could agree with this. Maybe not Johnson straight up for Neal though. I feel JJ's value has really sky rocketed this season, but we DO indeed have very talented defenseman in the system, who can ALL play in the NHL.

But as far as Lombardi goes...

Are we good enough to win the Stanley Cup if we acquire one of:

Hemsky
Penner
Booth
Richards?
Statsny?
Another player?

If your answer is "I don't know" then I'm not sure its worth the risk of trading any of Moller, Loktionov, Schenn, Voynov, Hickey, Muzzin, and to some people... Bernier.

P.s. I think people fall in love with the label of "position." Most of these fowards the Kings have and could acquire have all played the game long enough to know how to play either wing. Granted, Loktionov is OBVIOUSLY better as a center, but the flipside is, does it REALLY matter what wing Dustin Brown plays on? Or Sturm? Or Poni? Or Richardson? You can place those types of guys wherever and make it work.

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02-22-2011, 12:44 AM
  #37
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Man.. Pittsburgh absolutely robbed the Stars on that deal? Niskanen is a top 4 defenseman lol and James Neal is perfect for Crosby.

I would've given up Voynov or Martinez and a 1st for just James Neal lol

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02-22-2011, 12:50 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Man.. Pittsburgh absolutely robbed the Stars on that deal? Niskanen is a top 4 defenseman lol and James Neal is perfect for Crosby.

I would've given up Voynov or Martinez and a 1st for just James Neal lol
Niskanen scored 15 points last season and has 6 points this season, he USED to be a top 6er but Dallas had lost confidence in him. No doubt he could bounce back on a talented Pittsburgh team but the deal is basically Neal for Gogi. And this is all assumed that Crosby even plays again this season.

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02-22-2011, 12:51 AM
  #39
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Preissing, McCauley, Stuart, Sturm, Thornton, Gauthier. Coaches Murray and Stevens.

That is a lot of people from two NHL teams. No one is saying everyone he has acquired are former picks or players, but quite a bit have. Has any team in the NHL picked up that many players from one or two teams, maybe Burke picking up ex-Ducks?

Also, how can anyone use the excuse that "It's not Dean's fault there aren't any forwards available" when it was Dean himself who created the Kings lack of talent up front.

Everyone seems to always have an excuse not to acquire a player. Cammy wasn't worth five million, Gaborik wasn't worth 5 years, Hemsky is injury prone, Semin could leave as a FA, Penner is soft.

Risk adverse people rarely make it big in the NHL or in any facet of life, eventually you have to be willing to roll the dice and make a move, there is going to be a risk in any FA or trade the Kings make.


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02-22-2011, 12:55 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Preissing, McCauley, Stuart, Sturm, Thornton, Gauthier. Coaches Murray and Stevens.

That is a lot of people from two NHL teams. No one is saying everyone he has acquired are former picks or players, but quite a bit have. Has any team in the NHL picked up that many players from one or two teams, maybe Burke picking up ex-Ducks?

Also, how can anyone use the excuse that "It's not Dean's fault there aren't any forwards available" when it was Dean himself who created the Kings lack of talent up front.

Everyone seems to always have an excuse not to acquire a player. Cammy wasn't worth five million, Gaborik wasn't worth 5 years, Hemsky is injury prone, Semin could leave as a FA.

Risk adverse people rarely make it big in the NHL or in any facet of life, eventually you have to be willing to roll the dice and make a move, there is going to be a risk in any FA or trade the Kings make.
lol this.

Speaking of ex players, the more I think about it, the more I feel like we're going after Milan Michalek

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02-22-2011, 01:00 AM
  #41
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lol this.

Speaking of ex players, the more I think about it, the more I feel like we're going after Milan Michalek
I wouldn't be shocked to see something built around Moller or Toffolli for Michalek. Not that I would be happy about it.

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02-22-2011, 01:02 AM
  #42
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Also, how can anyone use the excuse that "It's not Dean's fault there aren't any forwards available" when it was Dean himself who created the Kings lack of talent up front.

Everyone seems to always have an excuse not to acquire a player. Cammy wasn't worth five million, Gaborik wasn't worth 5 years, Hemsky is injury prone, Semin could leave as a FA, Penner is soft.

Risk adverse people rarely make it big in the NHL or in any facet of life, eventually you have to be willing to roll the dice and make a move, there is going to be a risk in any FA or trade the Kings make.
I think the real trick is waiting for your team to be that one piece away. Detroit and Chiacgo did it with Hossa, and they both went to the cup finals, with one of them winning it. On the reverse, a team which did sign several of those big ticket players, the NYR, weren't one piece away, and where have those signings got them? They were lucky to unload Gomez, they can't give away Drury and gaborik is having an up-and-down year on the ice and health wise, just as many were concerned about. Imaigine if Gainey didn't help them out and take Gomez? They'd have about $22.5 million tied up in three players, or nearly 38 per cent of their cap, only one of which is remotely worth it.

If DL thinks LA is that one player away from being a cup contender, he needs to do the trade/signing. If not, sit back and keep building the talent/depth from within.

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02-22-2011, 01:03 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Preissing, McCauley, Stuart, Sturm, Thornton, Gauthier. Coaches Murray and Stevens.

That is a lot of people from two NHL teams. No one is saying everyone he has acquired are former picks or players, but quite a bit have. Has any team in the NHL picked up that many players from one or two teams, maybe Burke picking up ex-Ducks?

Also, how can anyone use the excuse that "It's not Dean's fault there aren't any forwards available" when it was Dean himself who created the Kings lack of talent up front.

Everyone seems to always have an excuse not to acquire a player. Cammy wasn't worth five million, Gaborik wasn't worth 5 years, Hemsky is injury prone, Semin could leave as a FA, Penner is soft.

Risk adverse people rarely make it big in the NHL or in any facet of life, eventually you have to be willing to roll the dice and make a move, there is going to be a risk in any FA or trade the Kings make.
Risk adverse people rarely make it big.....calling Ken Holland, please, Ken Holland you are needed, Ken....Ken Holland please....

What "risks" do you think Detroit had made? Just curious.

Mike Gillis, after Ken Holland, please to answer this, Mike Gillis, please...anyone, please, Mike Gillis...

But to answer your question, Cammalleri wasn't worth 5 million, Gaborik is now showing why DL didn't want him on a 5 year contract, Hemsky IS injury prone, Semin is gonna cost to much for just one year, and Penner I could live with the acquisition if the price is right.

As far as acquistions, think about that, 5 of the 8 were acquired in his first year or two as FILLER PLAYERS, Stevens was hired after Hardy resigned, it's not like he fired an assistant coach to hire him,

but hey, you gotta love revisionist history.

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02-22-2011, 01:07 AM
  #44
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Risk adverse people rarely make it big.....calling Ken Holland, please, Ken Holland you are needed, Ken....Ken Holland please....

What "risks" do you think Detroit had made? Just curious.

Mike Gillis, after Ken Holland, please to answer this, Mike Gillis, please...anyone, please, Mike Gillis...

But to answer your question, Cammalleri wasn't worth 5 million, Gaborik is now showing why DL didn't want him on a 5 year contract, Hemsky IS injury prone, Semin is gonna cost to much for just one year, and Penner I could live with the acquisition if the price is right.

As far as acquistions, think about that, 5 of the 8 were acquired in his first year or two as FILLER PLAYERS, Stevens was hired after Hardy resigned, it's not like he fired an assistant coach to hire him,

but hey, you gotta love revisionist history.
This is part that I don't understand. Cost too much of what? Money? Cap space? Prospects? I would argue that the hole at LW is costing the Kings MORE.

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02-22-2011, 01:10 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Risk adverse people rarely make it big.....calling Ken Holland, please, Ken Holland you are needed, Ken....Ken Holland please....

What "risks" do you think Detroit had made? Just curious.

Mike Gillis, after Ken Holland, please to answer this, Mike Gillis, please...anyone, please, Mike Gillis...

But to answer your question, Cammalleri wasn't worth 5 million, Gaborik is now showing why DL didn't want him on a 5 year contract, Hemsky IS injury prone, Semin is gonna cost to much for just one year, and Penner I could live with the acquisition if the price is right.

As far as acquistions, think about that, 5 of the 8 were acquired in his first year or two as FILLER PLAYERS, Stevens was hired after Hardy resigned, it's not like he fired an assistant coach to hire him,

but hey, you gotta love revisionist history.
Detroit was smart enough to draft Lidstrom, one of the best defensemen of all time. Any comparisons to the Kings and how they should build their organization stop right there. NHL players are not stocks and bonds, there is no one way to build a winner. Did Detroit rely on 2 good, young goaltenders for years or did they bring in veteran goalie afer veteran goalie based on need? How does that compare in any way to what the Kings are doing? Brett Hull, Igor Larionov, Luc, Paul Coffey, there is a long list of future HOF players Detroit brought in not only to help the team win but to teach the kids how to be NHL players on and off the ice. The Kings are not even close to copying Detroit's method in any way!

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02-22-2011, 01:10 AM
  #46
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This is part that I don't understand. Cost too much of what? Money? Cap space? Prospects? I would argue that the hole at LW is costing the Kings MORE.
LOL all of the above, if you think you can get Semin at one year mind you, for less than Simmonds, a 1st, Johnson possibly, Voynov for sure, etc, you are kidding yourself,

In fact, one could argue that without Johnson or Schenn it's a non-starter,

The hole at LW is costing the Kings more? Do they lose prospects if someone isn't there? Do they lose a game or two because of it, yea, of course, is it worth risking the future of the organization, not a chance.

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02-22-2011, 01:11 AM
  #47
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This is part that I don't understand. Cost too much of what? Money? Cap space? Prospects? I would argue that the hole at LW is costing the Kings MORE.
I cautiously agree. We don't know what the cost is on Semin is, assuming he is available. I think I'd be willing to pay a lot for him though, starting with Voynov/Hickey and adding any forward they want outside of Schenn and Kopitar. We can go from there.

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02-22-2011, 01:13 AM
  #48
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Detroit was smart enough to draft Lidstrom, one of the best defensemen of all time. Any comparisons to the Kings and how they should build their organization stop right there. NHL players are not stocks and bonds, there is no one way to build a winner. Did Detroit rely on 2 good, young goaltenders for years or did they bring in veteran goalie afer veteran goalie based on need? How does that compare in any way to what the Kings are doing? Brett Hull, Igor Larionov, Luc, Paul Coffey, there is a long list of future HOF players Detroit brought in not only to help the team win but to teach the kids how to be NHL players on and off the ice. The Kings are not even close to copying Detroit's method in any way!
How is that risky though? There was no risk in bringing in Hasek when you had Joseph or Osgood behind him, How is bringing in Hull, Larionov, Luc, Coffey, risky when you have the core of Federov, Fetisov, Lidstrom, Shanahan, etc?

The guy said that risk-adverse people don't make it big in the NHL, I am asking him, what risks have Detroit taken?

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02-22-2011, 01:14 AM
  #49
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The hole at LW is costing the Kings more? Do they lose prospects if someone isn't there? Do they lose a game or two because of it, yea, of course, is it worth risking the future of the organization, not a chance.

It all depends. If you think they team can have a very strong chance at winning a cup by acquiring that player (in this case Semin), then it is totally worth risking the future. If you think you have a chance at winning the cup, you make the move. I'd rather we make that push when we really think we have a shot than holding off. If DL thinks we are a cup threat by adding that one piece, than as a fan I give him the green light to way overspend to get it.

that said, I think DL believes we aren't at that stage yet, but should be soon, maybe this off-season or by the next trade deadline.

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02-22-2011, 01:18 AM
  #50
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The hole at LW is costing the Kings more? Do they lose prospects if someone isn't there? Do they lose a game or two because of it, yea, of course, is it worth risking the future of the organization, not a chance.
Signing Gaborik or Havlat was risking the future of the organization?

Signing Cammalleri to a 5/25 deal was risking the future of the organization?

Once again, you keep giving reasons not to sign or trade for these players. Every signing or trade comes with a risk, who is going to fill these holes for the Kings. There is not a blue chip prospect in the system to fill the Kings hole on the LW.

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