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2/22/2011 Predators pay a visit to Columbus

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02-22-2011, 09:28 PM
  #126
kivaerijo
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
This is nothing new about this team or this franchise. We play well for stretches than look like complete and utter crap for stretches. The only thing that's been relatively good or consistent has been Rinne, much like when we had Vokoun. While losing Suter sucks, we should not have looked as disorganized as we did out there tonight. Abysmal is about the only thing I can say about this performance.


I'd rather have Mueller and Halischuk out there than Sully and Dumont. They have wheels and get after people. They play a simple game. Wilson needs to be back with Legwand and Hornqvist as they all have looked like crap since they've been put on different lines. Trotz has no clue where to use Fisher just yet. The PP is back to its old self in that we're looking to pass more than get the puck to the net. We also don't have the ability or willingness to lay a body on anybody.

agree with everything except the PP (a little) thought that there were a couple good moments tonight on the pp. they got a couple decent shots off, and were at least moving the puck around the entire zone and not just from point, to half, to behind, and back up, reapeat. And I cant remember ever being a real physical team

The only thing that's consistent is our inconsistency. While I held out hope that this year would be different, I'm starting to lose that feeling. I wish we'd either decide to be good or bad but this good/bad roller coaster needs to stop. Either suck or be good but this Jeckyl and Hyde thing needs to stop for my sake and everyone else's for that matter.
and hang on..you are right that it is the same way every year, but like i said..at least we have a shot every year. we could be edmonton/islanders/jackets/etc and only have a glimmer of hope every 3-5 years or so. remember it is never life or death..just a team to be a fan of to take our time/money/and passion.

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02-22-2011, 09:30 PM
  #127
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If your not concerned you really are a little in denial. This team hasn't played the way they need to be for awhile now. Preds are 7-6-2 in the last 15. That pace the rest of the way isn't going to get us a playoff spot. This team is better than they are showing. It's getting to crunch time. Time for them to pick it the **** up.

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02-22-2011, 09:35 PM
  #128
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Well, if we're not going to bother to score...

New contract rules for offense:
No contracts with a NMC
No contracts with a NTC
No contracts over 2 years in length
No contracts over 2 mil/year unless contingent on production

Spend 25 to 30 million of D(x7) and G(x2) and the rest (to the floor) on (O) until the deadline: Then either buy (O) to the season-adjusted midpoint for the playoffs or sell, sell, sell for draft picks.

No surprises, season is predictable, Coach is apoplectically happy with all D all the time, and we probably end up clawing into 8th place every year, anyway.


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Old
02-22-2011, 09:38 PM
  #129
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I don't care our past. I hate Columbus. the town, the university there, the hockey team, all 4 fans they have. I hope the shards of glass from my glass house impales their bug.

I hate them more than any other team in the league.
LOL! That's how I feel about Detroit.

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02-22-2011, 09:39 PM
  #130
kivaerijo
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
One bad game? Other than getting up for Detroit and beating a Vancouver team with 4 AHL defensemen, when was the last time we actually played a solid stretch of games in a row? going to go back a month. we played well jan 15,18,20,23,26, feb 3 (i think?),5,9,12,17 (even though it was an ahl defense, we still played well)It's been a month as far as I can recall. so i respectfully disagreeIt's not one bad game, it's multiple games of not caring and giving half-assed effort. The game is 60 minutes. When we play 60 we usually have decent results. When we play 60, no one comes on here and complains about a bad game. When we see a month of hockey that hasn't equated to any sort of consistency or 60 minute efforts, the moaning starts. my other post explains my thoughts on this

Injuries aside, you either have effort or you don't and right now, we're not exerting much. It even goes to the hit on Suter the other night. The team was in an uproar on the bench about it but when it came time to rise up to the challenge and get after Doan for it, they did nothing. It shows me that there is no heart right now. While they talk about being a tight knit group, it sure doesn't show on the ice.are you back on this? I agree with you, but it seems that we go through this once in a while. I actually think missing Francis is part of it, and SOB can do it, and toots used to do it..we will see how things turn out. cant explain it
To get back to something good though, I raelly though Blum looked really good for his first game.

Have a good night guys..and the beauty is that we have a game on thursday to forget about the one that just happened. silver lining, there is always one.
GO PREDS!!!

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02-22-2011, 09:43 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by kivaerijo View Post
and hang on..you are right that it is the same way every year, but like i said..at least we have a shot every year. we could be edmonton/islanders/jackets/etc and only have a glimmer of hope every 3-5 years or so. remember it is never life or death..just a team to be a fan of to take our time/money/and passion.
A shot at what? We've never even won 3 games in a playoff series. What does that mean, we've never even sniffed making it out of the first round. We're stuck in limbo basically. We're not good enough to advance but we never suck enough to really land any top notch players in the draft. We either need to get over the hump or we need to suck. This teeter tot stuff is old. This is not a new discussion. The sky isn't falling by any means but it certainly isn't getting any brighter either. We've now had the same GM, coach and staff for how many years in a row? Nothing changes. Trotz gets a lot out of what he's given. Poile builds a solid roster with the means he's given. Maybe this is all we can be with our limitations. If that's where my expectations need to be maybe I need to find a different team. I don't like mediocrity. I don't like settling. I don't like middle of the road. It would be nice to see change if for nothing else to see if we have it as good as we do it or if there's another level that we can attain. Staying on the fifth floor or wherever we're at right now has been fine but it's gotten stagnant. Either time to go up or down but I'd rather see something different to know.

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02-22-2011, 09:48 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by kivaerijo View Post
To get back to something good though, I raelly though Blum looked really good for his first game.

Have a good night guys..and the beauty is that we have a game on thursday to forget about the one that just happened. silver lining, there is always one.
GO PREDS!!!
Winning games doesn't always equate to playing well. A bunch of those games we played we weren't that good. Games we should've won we didn't. To barely beat Edmonton in a SO and then to get blanked by them at home is inexcusable in a playoff race, especially when you beat Detroit convincingly on either side of the shutout. It's a game we have to win and yet somehow blow. This is inconsistency in a nut shell. This is our problem. You have to win the games you're supposed to and we don't.

I honestly can't remember, other than the two Detroit games, where I thought we've played really well and a full 60. We can agree to disagree but I haven't seen it in them in close to a month. The West Coast road trip is about the last time I remember us playing somewhat decently for a stretch of games.

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02-22-2011, 09:48 PM
  #133
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and remember we were 9-4 in january
we are 4-4-2 so far in this month with three games left. this might be our first losing month on the year, but i doubt it.

I am not concerned just yet. ask me mid march. It always comes down to march/april for us. I think there is a lot of hockey left, and it would be great to be on top the whole time, but come on. If you thought that was going to happen, you havent been a pred fan very long. Love/hate..its always entertaining and gets the blood pressure going

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02-22-2011, 10:03 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
A shot at what? We've never even won 3 games in a playoff series. What does that mean, we've never even sniffed making it out of the first round. We're stuck in limbo basically. We're not good enough to advance but we never suck enough to really land any top notch players in the draft. We either need to get over the hump or we need to suck. This teeter tot stuff is old. This is not a new discussion. The sky isn't falling by any means but it certainly isn't getting any brighter either. We've now had the same GM, coach and staff for how many years in a row? Nothing changes. Trotz gets a lot out of what he's given. Poile builds a solid roster with the means he's given. Maybe this is all we can be with our limitations. If that's where my expectations need to be maybe I need to find a different team. I don't like mediocrity. I don't like settling. I don't like middle of the road. It would be nice to see change if for nothing else to see if we have it as good as we do it or if there's another level that we can attain. Staying on the fifth floor or wherever we're at right now has been fine but it's gotten stagnant. Either time to go up or down but I'd rather see something different to know.
sadly..maybe it is time to find a different team? San jose? wait that wouldnt be any better. Wahington?..oops. Philly? You would know all the players. point is..none of those teams have done anything other than go further in the playoffs. they have won just as much as we have since we have been in the league. If you would rather be the Islanders fan..go for it. at least games matter come april. and as a fan, yes! all i want is a chance to win. If you dont see that, then you are expecting too much from your team. the only way you get that chance is to get into the playoffs..and that we consistantly are in a race for every year. once you are in, you never know what happens. You were a montreal fan..were they suppose to win in 93? what about 86?

oh yeah, your a yankee fan too arent you? I see why you expect a lot. would you rather have not sniffed the playoffs in our history? to have had NO CHANCE EVER? Playoffs are beautiful because anything can happen, and has. Just get me there boys and I will pay every year for the chance to be a fan of the team that wins it all. Thank you very much.

How is FLA?

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02-22-2011, 10:08 PM
  #135
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ZOMG THIS TEAM SUCKS! TRADE WEBER! TRADE SUTER! TRADE RINNE! BURN TROTZ AT THE STAKE!

Chill. I know it was a bad game, but it's one game. We were missing Goc, SK, Suter, Lombardi, ORLY, Boullion, etc. This team is proven to be a winning one. We are 5th in the super competitive West. I don't think a single person here wouldn't have taken that at the beginning of the year. This is just a bump in the road and we'll get back on track. Not like we haven't lost before....

I agree we need a scorer, and I hope it happens, but we aren't hopeless without one.
It's not one bad game. We haven't won back to back games since before the ASG, and we've, with the exception of the two red wings games we won, looked like rotten feces for the vast majority of that stretch. And yes, I include the Vancouver game that we won in a 5 minute span against a defense that featured 4 guys having played a combined 15 games.

The troubling thing is that it's not like we're getting chances and not burying them, there's not been much to be encouraged by that makes you think we're going to turn the corner. We're failing to generate any sustained attack, we've become a team that chases for 30 seconds, regains the puck, dumps, and then goes for a line change. We're getting killed in puck possession game in and game out. The ridiculous line combinations aren't helping.

I know that we've got injuries right now, but this is the first game we've been without Suter or SK in this stretch. It's mind boggling to me that Bouillon and O'Reilly are the reason for this extended stretch of mediocrity. It has to be something else?

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02-22-2011, 10:10 PM
  #136
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we're not making the playoffs.

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02-22-2011, 10:13 PM
  #137
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we're not making the playoffs.
you're going to get lambasted for saying so, accused of being chicken little or whatever, but unless something changes...and I mean that in the sense of not only figuring out whatever is going on for the last 10 or 15 games...but the teams around us cooling off a bit...I don't think so either. We have 23 games left, and figure that we need at the very least 25 points, realistically 30.

Can we go 15-8 the rest of the way? Even with a home-heavy schedule (we're only .500 at home, which is alarming), I'm just not sure we can.

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02-22-2011, 10:13 PM
  #138
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that something else in my opinion..it is no coincidence that we have "sucked" for the same time that lines have been jumbled consistantly. we havent had a stable line up in two weeks + have we.

I actually think it is going to get worse before it gets better. so hold on! will be another late season push to be 8-6

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02-22-2011, 10:15 PM
  #139
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Can we go 15-8 the rest of the way? Even with a home-heavy schedule (we're only .500 at home, which is alarming), I'm just not sure we can.
Its going to be interesting watching though isnt it?

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02-22-2011, 10:16 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
No Suter and SK and we are helpless and teethless "kitties"....

Fun stuff.
Let's not be coy...

We're without Lombardi, O'Reilly, and Goc at center. All three have shown the ability to serve as top-six centers for the Predators. In their place we are going with Smithson and Spaling as our bottom-six centers and thrusting Fisher and Legwand into top-six roles with admittedly hobbled linemates and asking them to score. It doesn't work.

At wing we're without Kostitsyn. Might not sound like much, but when you've got Sully in the top-six sucking the life out of any line he's on and Svatos, who's missed 3+ weeks of action, taking his spot it is cause for serious concern.

Sullivan should NOT be playing. People like to point to his cage as the reason right now, but he shouldn't have been playing even prior to that. He doesn't move his feet, he lacks his top gear, and has been unwilling to engage in battle since his initial injury. He's playing because it's not going to get any better this season. He's playing because he is a UFA this summer. But most importantly, he's playing because no one is stepping up to take his spot.

Hornqvist has been invisible since Sullivan was moved onto his line. Hornqvist needs someone that can get the puck to the net on his line and support on the cycle. Unfortunately, right now Sullivan struggles in transition due to the groin injury and his lack of vision/unfamiliarity with the cage and is a total possession killer every time the puck is moved to him and he turns away.

Svatos looked like he was beginning to catch on a little when he was injured. However, he is not yet fully buying in to the team concepts and is really struggling to catch up to the rest of the team and skate at game speed having spent 3+ weeks recovering from having his knee scoped.

The lack of offense stems from a lack of chemistry. We struggled in Fisher's first game, but looked to be starting to get it back on track when Goc went down and again we were back to the issue of having just 2 two-way centers with complimentary skill and 2 defensive-minded bottom-six centers in the lineup.

Problem is we are a team of complimentary players. We have 3 horses in Weber, Suter, and Rinne. Suter going down lead to heavier ice time for everyone else and little chemistry for anyone paired with Weber. Blum showed some good potential, but also looked rough around the edges as well tonight. He's a rookie making his debut...can't expect him to work miracles.

Anyone saying getting Smid wouldn't help is in denial. Klein is the 3rd best defenseman on this team and is a No. 4. Bouillon is injured and is a No. 5/6. O'Brien is playing really boneheaded recently and is another 5/6. Franson is still very protected, but has been coming around more and more lately. Franson is up to 5/6 level, but still has a long way to go before he can go without protection. Adding Smid to the lineup gives us another No. 4 with the potential to develop into a No. 3 down the stretch. It reduces the gap between our two No. 1 defensemen (Suter & Weber) and the rest and gives us another 3/4 guy to fill in if injuries force an adjustment instead of leaning on 5/6 guys to fill roles that are above them.

Injuries are not an excuse, they are reality. The reality right now is that we have no chemistry. We lack any consistency on offense. Our defense is stretched way too thin and is leaning heavily on Rinne. The tide needs to start tilting the other way. We have to get all 5 guys involved in our offensive attacks. We need to get shots through traffic to generate rebounds and we must capitalize on those chances early and often to provide support to the defensive side of the game and relieve the feeling that Rinne needs to pitch a shutout every night to win.

This isn't about coaching right now. Trotz is a miracle worker with what he's given, but right now I don't think there's any coach in this league that could generate any consistency with this lineup.

This is about the guys that are in the lineup stepping up and filling the roles that need to be filled. We don't have anyone that's going to bring instant offense to the table. Therefore everyone must step up and contribute to that aspect. In order to generate offense though we're gonna need to improve our transition game...again something that's going to take a whole team effort with everyone stepping up. Defense the same thing. Peks has got to remain on top of his game, but I don't think that's where we need to be looking right now. Can't ask for much more there...

We've gotta get healthy, but more importantly we've gotta get guys to step up. Right now that's not happening. Instead I see Sullivan playing without any fire and killing his line on a routine basis. I see Svatos a step slow and not fully integrated into the team. I see a Dumont that continues to be the ultimate square peg in this lineup showing signs of smoke, but never being able to bring the embers to flame. Wilson has been trying way too hard for way too long and has become a puck hog. That's why he's slid down the lineup. He needs to snap out of it and learn to use his teammates better and try to elevate their games rather than simply trying to do everything himself. The list goes on and on...

Not happy tonight at all, but at the same time not condemning this team either. It's gonna be a dogfight. We're going to have to scratch and claw for every point right now until we can find some chemistry and maybe get some guys healthy. Till then though the team needs a gut check. They can't look at who's out of the lineup and lament, they've gotta look at the guys in the room each night and figure out a way to get it done!

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02-22-2011, 10:32 PM
  #141
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One has to question Weber's leadership at this point. Is anyone being held accountable for their efforts? When is this team going to step up and take responsibilty for playing a full 60 minutes? There is no fight in this team and honestly, never has been.

I appreciate your view Seth but I think Trotz is done. The players are not responding to him and the lets fall back on our d and win that way has been exposed. The drawing names out of a hat for lines has got to stop. Put skill sets together and LEAVE THEM there. Let them sink or swim and realize that mistakes will happen. Use them as opportunites to learn instead of punishment.

Everyone railed on me for being critical of Trotz and Poile earlier in the year. Well guess what? We are mired in mediocrity in large part due to them and it's time some of that blame goes on them.

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02-22-2011, 10:39 PM
  #142
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Let's not be coy...

!
pretty much exactly what i have been saying. couldnt agree more.

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One has to question Weber's leadership at this point. Is anyone being held accountable for their efforts? When is this team going to step up and take responsibilty for playing a full 60 minutes? There is no fight in this team and honestly, never has been.

I appreciate your view Seth but I think Trotz is done. The players are not responding to him and the lets fall back on our d and win that way has been exposed. The drawing names out of a hat for lines has got to stop. Put skill sets together and LEAVE THEM there. Let them sink or swim and realize that mistakes will happen. Use them as opportunites to learn instead of punishment.

Everyone railed on me for being critical of Trotz and Poile earlier in the year. Well guess what? We are mired in mediocrity in large part due to them and it's time some of that blame goes on them.
couldnt dis-agree more. feel you have completely missed what happened the last couple weeks

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02-22-2011, 10:45 PM
  #143
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One has to question Weber's leadership at this point. Is anyone being held accountable for their efforts? When is this team going to step up and take responsibilty for playing a full 60 minutes? There is no fight in this team and honestly, never has been.

I appreciate your view Seth but I think Trotz is done. The players are not responding to him and the lets fall back on our d and win that way has been exposed. The drawing names out of a hat for lines has got to stop. Put skill sets together and LEAVE THEM there. Let them sink or swim and realize that mistakes will happen. Use them as opportunites to learn instead of punishment.

Everyone railed on me for being critical of Trotz and Poile earlier in the year. Well guess what? We are mired in mediocrity in large part due to them and it's time some of that blame goes on them.
Shea's leadership has grown as the season has progressed. Only Rinne rivals Shea's competitiveness and regardless this team is built as such. It's a team. When Shea speaks, the guys listen. Wilson has blogged that twice already this season.

Regarding the lineup juggling and lack of chemistry...if Trotz could keep his lines together he would. Injuries have made that impossible. Guys go out, guys come back and take their place, but the chemistry just isn't right anymore. Trotz has to tinker to get something going. Trust me, when he finds combos that work, he'll be glad to ride them as long as possible...

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02-22-2011, 11:09 PM
  #144
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pretty much exactly what i have been saying. couldnt agree more.



couldnt dis-agree more. feel you have completely missed what happened the last couple weeks
Actually no I haven't. I've missed one home game since the ASG and listen to the radio or watch when I can. This team has played a full 60 minute game a handful of times all season. The rest have been 10 minutes here or there with maybe a full period thrown in there. Can you honestly say there was any fight in this team against Edmonton? I understand that injuries have played a role in our difficulties. The wings have had their share of injuries yet they are on pace to win the division again. Lots of teams have had major injuries this year, some have responded and others haven't. Can you honestly say that we have responded?

The coaching staff and the leadership of the team should be held accountable for the results on the ice. And those results have been mediocre at best in the last month or so. And if Poile overpaid the guys who are supposed to produce then he needs to be held accountable for that. He needs to be held accountable for not drafting the offensive production we have needed for years. That is all I am saying.

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02-22-2011, 11:09 PM
  #145
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These boards are too funny after a loss.

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02-22-2011, 11:11 PM
  #146
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I just happen to feel particularly verbose after being shut out by the blue jackets.

But I'm not saying anything I haven't been saying all season and said for most of last season.

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02-22-2011, 11:21 PM
  #147
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These boards are too funny after a loss.
It's pretty much universal.

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02-22-2011, 11:53 PM
  #148
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Sullivan is simply terrible right now, and I don't think the cage has anything to do with it. He shies away from contact, can't handle the puck, is slow, and never finishes. I like the guy, but his time is over.

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02-22-2011, 11:56 PM
  #149
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There's a years-long standing issue with Trotz in that on any given night he'll readily trash any/every line that displays some level of chemistry in the hope of accidentally stumbling upon 4 lines that display any level of chemistry, simultaneously.

There's also a years-long standing issue of Pollyannas proffering excuses as to why the dictum of "No excuses" both applies and doesn't apply, simultaneously: Rose colored FUD, indeed.

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02-23-2011, 12:33 AM
  #150
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoveTheTeamAlready View Post
There's a years-long standing issue with Trotz in that on any given night he'll readily trash any/every line that displays some level of chemistry in the hope of accidentally stumbling upon 4 lines that display any level of chemistry, simultaneously.

There's also a years-long standing issue of Pollyannas proffering excuses as to why the dictum of "No excuses" both applies and doesn't apply, simultaneously: Rose colored FUD, indeed.
Says the poster with the user name and title that shows his extreme cynicism...

Injuries are a MAJOR issue right now. No one can deny that. However there is enough talent on this roster to tough it out right now in the short term and keep the team in good shape as players return from injury. Tonight they didn't get it done. Thursday is a new opportunity.

I guess in your mind we should just chalk Thursday and every game for the foreseeable future as a loss and save our time.

I'm really sick of the "Trotz shuffles lines" crap just like you are of the "never say die" attitude. In my years following the team I've witnessed many lines stay together without fail for large portions of the season. Other lines may shift, but when Trotz has something working, he keeps it together. When a player misses a shift due to an equipment issue or penalty people are quick to jump all over Trotz for switching up the lines...it's absurd. If things aren't working, the same group harping on line changes are the ones screaming at Trotz about the combos and throwing out changes themselves.

Injuries are what's causing the lines to juggle right now. Trotz also shortened his bench tonight in the third period which shuffled some of the lines. I saw a couple combos I liked during those shuffles, let's hope they continue working out and stick together...

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