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Old
02-22-2011, 04:55 PM
  #26
Flamesfan 26
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1st of all I am not an Avs fan I live in Calgary and love the Flames. My name is Avalanche 26 for other reasons. 2nd of all it's speculation because I'm speculating the Flames would consider trading him after his 1 good game of the season. I honestly don't think you guys watch the Flames if you think he is a good team player. Many of you seem to be overshadowed by his 1 good game. I have watched every game this year and about 95% of the games he has played for us. I think my opinion of him is very valid as I have watched and been involved with hockey my whole life, which is more than most of you. With the way Bourque plays he may cost the Flames a big game by taking one of his stupid selfish penalties. Now I'm not saying he is not a good player, which many of you think I am. He definatley has talent and skills which got him to the NHL. But if anyone who has closely watched the Flames and the way he has played thinks that he is a team player and isn't out for himself, I strongly disagree with you. I really think he has some value as a good hockey player and would supply the Flames with some good assets. Especially after his good game. But I do feel like there are other players who can come in and produce like him, but be more of a team player. I put Juice's name out there because he is a player we all know. I can suggest another 20-30 more if you'd like. Anyway you all are entitled to your opinions and I asked everyone for there views. I did not however ask people to come on and be childish with their responses. If you don't agree then come on and tell me your point and I will respect your post. I have no respect for people who bash and don't put thought into their posts. Thank you to those who did give me their opinions. I'm just curios to see if people notice the same things I do.

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Old
02-22-2011, 05:01 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
1st of all I am not an Avs fan I live in Calgary and love the Flames. My name is Avalanche 26 for other reasons. 2nd of all it's speculation because I'm speculating the Flames would consider trading him after his 1 good game of the season. I honestly don't think you guys watch the Flames if you think he is a good team player. Many of you seem to be overshadowed by his 1 good game. I have watched every game this year and about 95% of the games he has played for us. I think my opinion of him is very valid as I have watched and been involved with hockey my whole life, which is more than most of you. With the way Bourque plays he may cost the Flames a big game by taking one of his stupid selfish penalties. Now I'm not saying he is not a good player, which many of you think I am. He definatley has talent and skills which got him to the NHL. But if anyone who has closely watched the Flames and the way he has played thinks that he is a team player and isn't out for himself, I strongly disagree with you. I really think he has some value as a good hockey player and would supply the Flames with some good assets. Especially after his good game. But I do feel like there are other players who can come in and produce like him, but be more of a team player. I put Juice's name out there because he is a player we all know. I can suggest another 20-30 more if you'd like. Anyway you all are entitled to your opinions and I asked everyone for there views. I did not however ask people to come on and be childish with their responses. If you don't agree then come on and tell me your point and I will respect your post. I have no respect for people who bash and don't put thought into their posts. Thank you to those who did give me their opinions. I'm just curios to see if people notice the same things I do.
This is where you are 100% wrong. For the 1st month and a half of the year he was hands down our best forward and no one can argue that. Furthermore I rarely see him take dumb penalties. And how is he not a team player? The guy works hard (outside of his recent slump, which is coming out of), is great in the media, and has never been mentioned as a bad locker room guy. Where do you draw your analysis from? I've watched just as many games as you and can definitly say I 100% disagree with you.

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Old
02-22-2011, 05:12 PM
  #28
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Not to mention he's signed in Calgary for another 4 seasons for a reasonable 3.3m, is a dependable forward on our right wing and Calgary has no reason to trade him for a pending UFA like Huselius who is notoriously defencively lazy, streaky, and does not forecheck like Bourque. The only thing Bourque shares with him is streakiness. There is no reason to get an upgrade in that particular position for the Flames.

Just because you have "been involved with hockey your whole life" =/= make you a knowledgeable person on it. Look at Mike Milbury, you'd think his GM skills would be better. I know yours certainly aren't.

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02-22-2011, 05:25 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
This is where you are 100% wrong. For the 1st month and a half of the year he was hands down our best forward and no one can argue that. Furthermore I rarely see him take dumb penalties. And how is he not a team player? The guy works hard (outside of his recent slump, which is coming out of), is great in the media, and has never been mentioned as a bad locker room guy. Where do you draw your analysis from? I've watched just as many games as you and can definitly say I 100% disagree with you.
I've noticed he usually takes penalties when we're down or late in periods. Those are very critical points in the game. And usually a slash or hook because he stops moving his feet or also he'll take a roughing call because he loses his cool. He's very easy to provoke. These are definatley not the calls you need to take.

I've also noticed he shoots from bad postions when he has an open man. Iggy would easily be over 30 goals by now if Bourque passed instead of taking a bad shot. Yes I'll admit getting shots on net is good. But when your shooting from the side of the goal or when there is a Dman to block the shot and you have the pass to an open player, it's more often than not the better play.

He also has been bad defensivley. His team worst -11 will show you that. Although I have seen improvement in his play, I think trading him and getting good assets while his value is high, would be better for the team overall. There are alot of guys you can get to score 20 goals a year and be a valuable teammate.

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02-22-2011, 05:27 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Conroy View Post
Not to mention he's signed in Calgary for another 4 seasons for a reasonable 3.3m, is a dependable forward on our right wing and Calgary has no reason to trade him for a pending UFA like Huselius who is notoriously defencively lazy, streaky, and does not forecheck like Bourque. The only thing Bourque shares with him is streakiness. There is no reason to get an upgrade in that particular position for the Flames.

Just because you have "been involved with hockey your whole life" =/= make you a knowledgeable person on it. Look at Mike Milbury, you'd think his GM skills would be better. I know yours certainly aren't.
If you notice in the first post I suggested trading him to Pit for Bennett and a pick, not for Huselius.

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02-22-2011, 05:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
I've noticed he usually takes penalties when we're down or late in periods. Those are very critical points in the game. And usually a slash or hook because he stops moving his feet or also he'll take a roughing call because he loses his cool. He's very easy to provoke. These are definatley not the calls you need to take.
He's not the only one when it comes to those situations. JayBo also took a few but pretty much all of these were back prior to December/January.

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Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
I've also noticed he shoots from bad postions when he has an open man. Iggy would easily be over 30 goals by now if Bourque passed instead of taking a bad shot. Yes I'll admit getting shots on net is good. But when your shooting from the side of the goal or when there is a Dman to block the shot and you have the pass to an open player, it's more often than not the better play.
Would Iggy really be up that many goals at this point? Bourque typically doesn't play with him anyways, minus substituting for Tanguay so that point seems moot. Even if and when he did, letting him to set up Iggy is the same thing we've tried with Jokinen. He's a goal scorer and he shoots for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
He also has been bad defensivley. His team worst -11 will show you that. Although I have seen improvement in his play, I think trading him and getting good assets while his value is high, would be better for the team overall. There are alot of guys you can get to score 20 goals a year and be a valuable teammate.
Jokinen is -10, Gio is -5. Can you say either of those have been bad defensively of late? Heck, can you even say Gio is bad defensively often? Using that stat is too narrow of a measurement.
If you really think that trading him to get these "assets" which will better the team overall and consists of a 20 goal scoring "valuable teammate", I'd like to see you propose a few realistic ones. Until then, I think we're happy with what we have in Bourque.

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02-22-2011, 06:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Xelstyle View Post
He's not the only one when it comes to those situations. JayBo also took a few but pretty much all of these were back prior to December/January.

Would Iggy really be up that many goals at this point? Bourque typically doesn't play with him anyways, minus substituting for Tanguay so that point seems moot. Even if and when he did, letting him to set up Iggy is the same thing we've tried with Jokinen. He's a goal scorer and he shoots for a reason.

Jokinen is -10, Gio is -5. Can you say either of those have been bad defensively of late? Heck, can you even say Gio is bad defensively often? Using that stat is too narrow of a measurement.
If you really think that trading him to get these "assets" which will better the team overall and consists of a 20 goal scoring "valuable teammate", I'd like to see you propose a few realistic ones. Until then, I think we're happy with what we have in Bourque.
No he's not the only one. Of course every player in the NHL will take a selfish play at some point. But when I keep seeing bad plays like that and quite often it's #17 then it's becoming a problem. Once or twice I can live with.

I would say 5 goals is pretty accurate for this season. As I said it's not bad getting shot's on net. But getting bad shots on net is, especially when you can make a play to another teammate who is in a better scoring position.

Yeah I can agree that the plus minus stat is not a good basis. But it is pretty bad for a guy who scores often to be a minus by so much. Keep in mind all the points he scores and is on the ice for and he's still been on the ice for minus 11. Now if I do some rough math he's been on the ice for about a third of all the goals scored against. That seems like a lot to me.

Like I said before tho he has improved as of late. But thats also why I feel they may consider moving him now when he does have value. Remember how many people wanted him off the team a couple of months ago. He's on a hot streak right now and thats good for value. But do you really want that guy from the 1st half of the season on this team for the next 4 years.

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Old
02-22-2011, 07:13 PM
  #33
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I'd like to point out that while Bourqueleads the team in minor penalties... he still only has 16 of them through 59 games... one every 4 games is not as bad as you are making it out to be

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02-22-2011, 07:41 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
If you notice in the first post I suggested trading him to Pit for Bennett and a pick, not for Huselius.
Your writing skills leave something to be desired, particularly your inability to format in such a way that would allow for easy reading.

Exactly why do the Flames do this? Pittsburgh gets a reliable 2nd line RW for Malkin when he returns... and the Flames get a mid pick, EVEN in the first round, would be such a crap shoot in this year's weak draft.

Bennett, is a promising 19 year old who hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and at this point is a pretty big risk for the Flames before the trade deadline due to team chemistry, and could not reliably replace Bourque in our lineup. Not saying he's going to be ****, but you can't say he will be the next Yzerman, either.

In the off-season, in a scenario where the Flames are truly down-and-out and about to have a fire-sale, full-scale rebuild, Bourque still holds value to the team as he is signed through his prime and could act as a veteran for a rebuilding Flames team. If you trade a player like Bourque, you trade him for a number one, young centreman in a scenario where the Flames add player/prospect/pick, not for more spare parts or anything straight across.

Your personal opinion of him might not be very high but it doesn't affect his actual trade value.


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02-22-2011, 07:46 PM
  #35
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02-22-2011, 08:08 PM
  #36
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Bourque would net a whole lot more than Bennett and a pick, IF he was traded to the Pens as per your example, he could probably get a 1st and Tangradi. I actually would not be totally against trading Bourque, but it all depends on what the return would be. For example, we are in the middle of a playoff run so if Bourque was used in a package to aquire a number centre (ie. Lecavalier, which was discussed in another thread) then that would be an acceptable/understandable trade to fans here in this city. But the proposal made in the OP was awful.

The other problem that I have in the OP is the suggestion that Bourque is cocky, lazy, and takes bad penalities. First of all, what has Bourque ever done to indicate that he is cocky. To me he has always seemed like he is a very modest and down to earth kind of guy. He actually seems kind of quiet and that is probably part of the reason why he hasn't become a huge fan favorite in Calgary like Conroy has.

I don't think Bourque ever played lazy this year, I think a better word would be frustrated. You can tell he was in a slump and it was obviously affecting his game. He wasn't skating like he normally does and going to the open spots or he was not meshing at all with his linemates. When things are not going your way, everything usually goes bad, like clutching your stick to much and not getting quality shots on net.

Again, depending on what the return would be I would not trade Bourque. This team is playing really well right now, and when Bourque is on, he is great value for his contract. Moving Bourque would be moving out a key cog in the Flames lineup and could disrupt chemisty with the team. It would have to be a very enticing deal to me if Bourque was ever traded.

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02-22-2011, 09:12 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
1st of all I am not an Avs fan I live in Calgary and love the Flames. My name is Avalanche 26 for other reasons. 2nd of all it's speculation because I'm speculating the Flames would consider trading him after his 1 good game of the season. I honestly don't think you guys watch the Flames if you think he is a good team player. Many of you seem to be overshadowed by his 1 good game. I have watched every game this year and about 95% of the games he has played for us. I think my opinion of him is very valid as I have watched and been involved with hockey my whole life, which is more than most of you. With the way Bourque plays he may cost the Flames a big game by taking one of his stupid selfish penalties. Now I'm not saying he is not a good player, which many of you think I am. He definatley has talent and skills which got him to the NHL. But if anyone who has closely watched the Flames and the way he has played thinks that he is a team player and isn't out for himself, I strongly disagree with you. I really think he has some value as a good hockey player and would supply the Flames with some good assets. Especially after his good game. But I do feel like there are other players who can come in and produce like him, but be more of a team player. I put Juice's name out there because he is a player we all know. I can suggest another 20-30 more if you'd like. Anyway you all are entitled to your opinions and I asked everyone for there views. I did not however ask people to come on and be childish with their responses. If you don't agree then come on and tell me your point and I will respect your post. I have no respect for people who bash and don't put thought into their posts. Thank you to those who did give me their opinions. I'm just curios to see if people notice the same things I do.
Thanks for reaffirming my negative opinion of your "opinions"

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02-22-2011, 10:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
1st of all I am not an Avs fan I live in Calgary and love the Flames. My name is Avalanche 26 for other reasons. 2nd of all it's speculation because I'm speculating the Flames would consider trading him after his 1 good game of the season. I honestly don't think you guys watch the Flames if you think he is a good team player. Many of you seem to be overshadowed by his 1 good game. I have watched every game this year and about 95% of the games he has played for us. I think my opinion of him is very valid as I have watched and been involved with hockey my whole life, which is more than most of you. With the way Bourque plays he may cost the Flames a big game by taking one of his stupid selfish penalties. Now I'm not saying he is not a good player, which many of you think I am. He definatley has talent and skills which got him to the NHL. But if anyone who has closely watched the Flames and the way he has played thinks that he is a team player and isn't out for himself, I strongly disagree with you. I really think he has some value as a good hockey player and would supply the Flames with some good assets. Especially after his good game. But I do feel like there are other players who can come in and produce like him, but be more of a team player. I put Juice's name out there because he is a player we all know. I can suggest another 20-30 more if you'd like. Anyway you all are entitled to your opinions and I asked everyone for there views. I did not however ask people to come on and be childish with their responses. If you don't agree then come on and tell me your point and I will respect your post. I have no respect for people who bash and don't put thought into their posts. Thank you to those who did give me their opinions. I'm just curios to see if people notice the same things I do.
Can someone translate? I don't speak textwall...

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02-23-2011, 10:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Avalanche 26 View Post
I've noticed he usually takes penalties when we're down or late in periods. Those are very critical points in the game. And usually a slash or hook because he stops moving his feet or also he'll take a roughing call because he loses his cool. He's very easy to provoke. These are definatley not the calls you need to take.

I've also noticed he shoots from bad postions when he has an open man. Iggy would easily be over 30 goals by now if Bourque passed instead of taking a bad shot. Yes I'll admit getting shots on net is good. But when your shooting from the side of the goal or when there is a Dman to block the shot and you have the pass to an open player, it's more often than not the better play.

He also has been bad defensivley. His team worst -11 will show you that. Although I have seen improvement in his play, I think trading him and getting good assets while his value is high, would be better for the team overall. There are alot of guys you can get to score 20 goals a year and be a valuable teammate.
It's comments like this that make me think you do not watch CGY on a regular basis.

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