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Past Kings Draft, Trade, Free Agent Signing Discussion

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Old
02-23-2011, 03:29 PM
  #301
TonySCV
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Yahoo published a list of the top 20 deadline deals of all time:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-325344

It's striking that the Kings were involved in 3 of the 20, and they were on the losing end every time.

19. March 10, 1987: Marcel Dionne traded to New York Rangers by Los Angeles Kings with Jeff Crossman and Los Angeles' 3rd round choice (later traded to Minnesota - Minnesota selected Murray Garbutt) in 1989 Entry Draft for Bob Carpenter and Tom Laidlaw, March 10, 1987.

13. March 10, 1980: Jerry Korab traded from Buffalo Sabres to Los Angeles Kings for Los Angeles' 1st-round pick in the 1982 Entry Draft (Phil Housley).

2. March 10, 1980: Butch Goring traded from Los Angeles Kings to New York Islanders for Billy Harris and Dave Lewis.

---

"During their first 27 years in the league, the Kings traded away their first-round draft pick 20 times.

During this period, the Kings' bizarre trading strategy netted players like Gerry Desjardins, Ron Grahame, Bob Janecyk, Bob Murdoch, Terry Harper, Jerry Korab, Rick Chartraw, Skip Krake, Randy Rota, Gene Carr and Glenn Goldup.

In the process, they lost the chance to draft Ray Bourque, Phil Housley, Steve Shutt, Reggie Leach, Mario Tremblay, Pierre Mondou, Ron Duguay, Eddie Olczyk and Claude Lemieux.

Now which group of players would you rather have?"

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...y-rewind_x.htm

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02-23-2011, 03:32 PM
  #302
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That sounds about right

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02-23-2011, 03:54 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Yea, that is crappy drafting, when you are talking A DECADE of drafting,

10 YEARS of drafting and they ended up with 8 players, 3 of them that never really played for the Kings, Fox was decent but never a "star" but he had a good career, same with Nicholls, who was more talented, etc,

10 years of drafting should net you more than 8 players, hell DL's what, 4 years of drafting has netted the Kings, Doughty, Clifford, Martinez, Lewis, Muzzin, Lotkionov, etc, that's six right there in 4 years, and that's not counting Voynov or Schenn who everyone wants in the NHL today, you count those two, and that's 8 in 4 years, yea, I would say the Kings drafting in the 80's was pretty damn shoddy.
You also have to remember scouting in the 80's meant you actually had to go to where the player was to see him. Al Gore didn't invent the internet yet, it was more of a crapshoot than it is today and the Kings rolled the dice pretty well. What they did with those assets after drafting them is another story entirely.

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02-23-2011, 04:32 PM
  #304
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Regarding the whole draft debate going on, in my opinion if a team gets two players out of a draft, they did well. By two players I mean one guy you'd consider a core player top two line player, top four D-man or number one goalies for about a decade at the NHL level), and one guy who had a serviceable NHL career (say 400 games, or good enough to be a backup at the NHL level for five seasons in the case of goalies).

Now each draft you won't get that, sometimes you'll bust completely, sometimes you'll have a dream draft. For the 80's, just judging by the numbers as I wasn't really following the Kings until 1988 (so correct me if I label someone wrong):

1980: Core: Larry Murphy, Bernie Nicholls
Serviceable: Jim Fox, Steve Bozak, Greg Terrion

1981: Core players: none
Serviceable: Doug Smith, Dean Kennedy

1982: Core: none
serviceable: none

1983: Core: Garry Galley, Kevin Stevens (not a decade as a core player, but when he was at his height he was one of the best in the game).
Serviceable: none

1984: Core: Luc Robitaille
Serviceable: none

1985: Core: none
Serviceable: none

1986: Core: none
Serviceable: Jimmy Carson (I know, three great seasons, but he was more bust than boom overall)

1987: Core: None
Serviceable: Mark Fitzpatrick

1988: Core: Rob Blake
Serviceable: Martin Gelinas (much of his career as a bottom two line forward)

1989: Core: none
Serviceable: none

Basically, we had six core players (Murphy, Nicholls, Galley Stevens, Robitaille and Blake), and eight serviceable players (Jim Fox, Steve Bozak, Greg Terrion, Doug Smith, Dean Kennedy, Jimmy Carson, Mark Fitzpatrick and Martin Gelinas). Several other players had a cup of coffee, but not many of more than 50 games.

The 1980 draft was great and, aside from the 1982 draft, the first four drafts of te decade were solid. It's from 1984 on that the draft went downhill, with just two core players and three serviceable players in the final six drafts. Some big hits, like Robitaille, but not near enough depth.

Additionally, the first round picks we did have in the 1980's largely busted.

1980: Larry Murphy and Jim Fox - one HOFer, 2193 GP, 473 goals, 1221 assists, 1694 points
1981: Doug Smith - 535 GP, 115 goals, 253 points
1982: no first
1983: no first
1984: Craig Redmond - 191 games, 16 goals, 84 points
1985: Craig Duncanson and Dan Gratton - 45 games, 6 goals, 10 points
1986: Jimmy Carson: 626 games, 275 goals, 561 points
1987: Wayne McBean: 211 games, 10 goals, 49 points
1988: Martin Gelinas: 1273 games, 309 goals, 660 points
1989: no first

Of the nine first round picks we did have, only Murphy was a core player over the bulk of his career, while four others were serviceable players arguably worth a 1st round pick, though maybe not as high as they were selected (Doug Smith, 2nd overall). Four others meanwhile, McBean, Duncanson, Redmond and Gratton, can be labelled as busts. Mcbean likely deserves a mulligan due to his knee injury.

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02-23-2011, 04:44 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Regarding the whole draft debate going on, in my opinion if a team gets two players out of a draft, they did well. By two players I mean one guy you'd consider a core player top two line player, top four D-man or number one goalies for about a decade at the NHL level), and one guy who had a serviceable NHL career (say 400 games, or good enough to be a backup at the NHL level for five seasons in the case of goalies).

Now each draft you won't get that, sometimes you'll bust completely, sometimes you'll have a dream draft. For the 80's, just judging by the numbers as I wasn't really following the Kings until 1988 (so correct me if I label someone wrong):

1980: Core: Larry Murphy, Bernie Nicholls
Serviceable: Jim Fox, Steve Bozak, Greg Terrion

1981: Core players: none
Serviceable: Doug Smith, Dean Kennedy

1982: Core: none
serviceable: none

1983: Core: Garry Galley, Kevin Stevens (not a decade as a core player, but when he was at his height he was one of the best in the game).
Serviceable: none

1984: Core: Luc Robitaille
Serviceable: none

1985: Core: none
Serviceable: none

1986: Core: none
Serviceable: Jimmy Carson (I know, three great seasons, but he was more bust than boom overall)

1987: Core: None
Serviceable: Mark Fitzpatrick

1988: Core: Rob Blake
Serviceable: Martin Gelinas (much of his career as a bottom two line forward)

1989: Core: none
Serviceable: none

Basically, we had six core players (Murphy, Nicholls, Galley Stevens, Robitaille and Blake), and eight serviceable players (Jim Fox, Steve Bozak, Greg Terrion, Doug Smith, Dean Kennedy, Jimmy Carson, Mark Fitzpatrick and Martin Gelinas). Several other players had a cup of coffee, but not many of more than 50 games.

The 1980 draft was great and, aside from the 1982 draft, the first four drafts of te decade were solid. It's from 1984 on that the draft went downhill, with just two core players and three serviceable players in the final six drafts. Some big hits, like Robitaille, but not near enough depth.

Additionally, the first round picks we did have in the 1980's largely busted.

1980: Larry Murphy and Jim Fox - one HOFer, 2193 GP, 473 goals, 1221 assists, 1694 points
1981: Doug Smith - 535 GP, 115 goals, 253 points
1982: no first
1983: no first
1984: Craig Redmond - 191 games, 16 goals, 84 points
1985: Craig Duncanson and Dan Gratton - 45 games, 6 goals, 10 points
1986: Jimmy Carson: 626 games, 275 goals, 561 points
1987: Wayne McBean: 211 games, 10 goals, 49 points
1988: Martin Gelinas: 1273 games, 309 goals, 660 points
1989: no first

Of the nine first round picks we did have, only Murphy was a core player over the bulk of his career, while four others were serviceable players arguably worth a 1st round pick, though maybe not as high as they were selected (Doug Smith, 2nd overall). Four others meanwhile, McBean, Duncanson, Redmond and Gratton, can be labelled as busts. Mcbean likely deserves a mulligan due to his knee injury.
Keep in mind, Kevin Stevens, Martin Gelinas, to an extent Jimmy Carson, and Larry Murphy, all achieved their "success" away from L.A. so even when they did hit X on the treasure map, they traded that treasure for something even shinier...and it blew up in their faces.

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02-23-2011, 05:01 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Keep in mind, Kevin Stevens, Martin Gelinas, to an extent Jimmy Carson, and Larry Murphy, all achieved their "success" away from L.A. so even when they did hit X on the treasure map, they traded that treasure for something even shinier...and it blew up in their faces.
Not to mention the goalie situation, which the DL haters comviently ignore.

It's been a mess at that position ever since this franchise began. It's real refreshing we don't have retreads and mediocre goalies there anymore. It's really nice to have some stability there.

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02-23-2011, 05:19 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Not to mention the goalie situation, which the DL haters comviently ignore.

It's been a mess at that position ever since this franchise began. It's real refreshing we don't have retreads and mediocre goalies there anymore. It's really nice to have some stability there.
No argument there but I think we were talking about skaters. The solid goaltending the past 2 whole years has been in a class by itself. Quick pretty much re-wrote the Kings goalie record book in his 2nd season, that's how bad it's always been outside of Vachon. If you don't kiss Lombardi's ring are you a hater or are you allowed to have a different opinion on here?

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02-23-2011, 05:26 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Yea, that is crappy drafting, when you are talking A DECADE of drafting,

10 YEARS of drafting and they ended up with 8 players, 3 of them that never really played for the Kings, Fox was decent but never a "star" but he had a good career, same with Nicholls, who was more talented, etc,

10 years of drafting should net you more than 8 players, hell DL's what, 4 years of drafting has netted the Kings, Doughty, Clifford, Martinez, Lewis, Muzzin, Lotkionov, etc, that's six right there in 4 years, and that's not counting Voynov or Schenn who everyone wants in the NHL today, you count those two, and that's 8 in 4 years, yea, I would say the Kings drafting in the 80's was pretty damn shoddy.
Are you being serious?

You are comparing

Larry Murphy, Jim Fox, Bernie Nicholls, Garry Galley, Luc Robitaille, Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, and Rob Blake

with

Doughty, Clifford, Martinez, Lewis, Muzzin, and Lotkionov

and claiming that the second group is on the same level if not better???!!!!

* even better is your idea that Jim Fox was only a decent pick, yet you are touting Muzzin as a great pick (Muzzin was drafted by the Penguins, BTW) *

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02-23-2011, 05:33 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
No argument there but I think we were talking about skaters. The solid goaltending the past 2 whole years has been in a class by itself. Quick pretty much re-wrote the Kings goalie record book in his 2nd season, that's how bad it's always been outside of Vachon. If you don't kiss Lombardi's ring are you a hater or are you allowed to have a different opinion on here?
No, I've been critical of DL for some things but I also understand the rebuilding project that Dean had to take on was bound to have some speed bumps. Like Cloutier and the other retreads we signed. I also hated the Blake signing and AEG nimrods pretty much forced his hand there. I didn't like the firing of Crawford and hiring TM.

That being said though, the criticism towards DL lately has been unfair. People want him to make a deal at any cost for hemsky or statsny etc. People just don't understand the art of negotiating. They also don't understand that this team won't be a cup contender after those moves. It has to be a trade that works for the Kings now and in the future. There are few if any of those options right now. The market is way too high.

King fans need to learn how to be patient at this point, we have a lot of good young players on the roster and in the pipeline. This could be a scary good team for years and not just a couple.

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02-23-2011, 06:18 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
King fans need to learn how to be patient at this point, we have a lot of good young players on the roster and in the pipeline. This could be a scary good team for years and not just a couple.
I know that these thoughts are well intentioned, but I've heard this all before too many times. Here is part of a post from 2004 - see if it sounds familiar:

Quote:
We can build around a nice solid young core
Frolov-21
Gleason-21
Grebeshkov-20
Brown-19
Barney-24
Sean Avery 23
Cristobal Huet 28 (Young in goalie years)
Lubomir Visnovsky 27 - we can probably get 8-10 more years from Lubo
Zizka is only 25 and got better before he was sent down

Here are some prospects we will have available next year
Petr Kanko-20
Tambellini-20
Rome-21
Petiot-21
Karlsson-22
Steckel-22
Clarke-24
Hogeboom-22
Connor James-21

Not to mention
Pushkarov
Boyle
Murray

The Monarchs are going to be stacked next year. I think several in this group could/will be impact players in the NHL. Several scouts have already mentioned Rome and Petiot could already be in the NHL. Kanko is a 2nd or 3rd line guy. Karlsson and Steckel are going to surprise some people. Their games are better suited for the NHL and they can't be any worse than John Tripp.
...

At this point we are years away from being a perennial powerhouse. Depending on who you talk to the 2005 draft is supposed to be better than the 2003 was. We can trade some of our older players build around our yound core and be serious contenders for the first time since the Gretz years Our drafting and scouting have gotten MUCH MUCH better over the last 3 years and I think we can finally trust them
This post received nearly universal agreement at the time.

While I really want it to - why is it going to be different this time?

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02-23-2011, 06:23 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Keep in mind, Kevin Stevens, Martin Gelinas, to an extent Jimmy Carson, and Larry Murphy, all achieved their "success" away from L.A. so even when they did hit X on the treasure map, they traded that treasure for something even shinier...and it blew up in their faces.
I agree, but this was just a discussion on draft success/failure. Sad to say, as bad as the drafting arguably was, the trade front was absolutely attrocious at some points.

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02-23-2011, 06:42 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I know that these thoughts are well intentioned, but I've heard this all before too many times. Here is part of a post from 2004 - see if it sounds familiar:

This post received nearly universal agreement at the time.
Here's the thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=63667

The people in the thread were agreeing that a youth rebuild was in order (which it was)... of course that never went anywhere for a number of reasons - a lack of a proper development system being a primary reason. You could argue that personnel was another, but it's hard to know when it's evident that the Kings didn't put any real emphasis on developing the talent they had.

Guys like Cammalleri and Frolov became the players they are in spite of the development system the Kings had in place at the time they came through the system, certainly not because of it.


Last edited by TonySCV: 02-23-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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02-23-2011, 06:58 PM
  #313
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Here is an article from 2004 using a term that's become a buzzword now in the Lombardi regime...
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...in_manchester/

Quote:
When Dave Taylor took over as General Manger for the Los Angeles Kings, a new philosophy of draft and develop from within was installed. The first wave of talent resulting from this philosophy has already reached Los Angeles with varying degrees of success over the past two seasons. Just behind it, the second wave stands knocking on the door from Manchester waiting for the NHL season to start. Fate has thrust them into a single group. Together, they will develop. Together, they will take their rookie lumps. And together, they will be the future of the Los Angeles Kings.
Laugh if you will at some of the names in that list, but like I said in a previous post, I guarantee you that 7 years from now people will look back at some of the prospects in our current list and laugh at how much we overrated them. Prospects are just that...prospects for the future. Nothing is for certain, and like PSP said earlier, we've heard this same song and dance about prospects leading us to the promised land before. For god's sake, who can forget the essays that the poster 'jt' used to write on the other site about how Dave Taylor and the Kings were finally doing it the right way by going with a young movement.

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02-23-2011, 07:12 PM
  #314
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Oh and for those who say DL inherited a farm system that was completely bare, here's the HF organizational rankings from a few months before he was hired.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...l_rankings115/

Quote:
4. Los Angeles Kings
Strengths: The Kings impressive collection of young forwards got even better on draft day when Slovenian sensation Anze Kopitar fell to them at the 11th overall pick. He joined a forward corps that already includes Dustin Brown, Michael Cammalleri, Lauri Tukonen, Jeff Tambellini, Brian Boyle and Konstantin Pushkarev. Tim Gleason, Denis Grebeshkov, Richard Petiot, and Paul Baier are all blue chip defensive prospects, with others like TJ Fast and Patrik Hersley who are full of potential. For the first time in the history of the franchise, the Kings goaltending pipeline is showing promise. Betting on quantity, the Kings have ended up with several solid but unspectacular prospects. Recent draftee Jonathon Quick has the highest potential of the group, but Yutaka Fukufuji, Daniel Taylor and Matt Zaba are starting to make a name for themselves.
Weaknesses: The wave is cresting and several of the Kings elite prospects are going to graduate into regular NHL players. Although the goaltending situation is light years ahead of where it was a few years ago, it is still the weak point of the prospect pool.
Top Prospects: Dustin Brown (RW), Tim Gleason (D), Michael Cammalleri (C), Denis Grebeshkov (D), Anze Kopitar (C)

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02-23-2011, 07:32 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I know that these thoughts are well intentioned, but I've heard this all before too many times. Here is part of a post from 2004 - see if it sounds familiar:

This post received nearly universal agreement at the time.

While I really want it to - why is it going to be different this time?
Difference is, I don't just talk to King fans. If you were to talk to Canadians and fans around the league they point out how stacked we are in the pipelines. Difference is Gleason is no Doughty and a lot of those players were young but didn't nearly recieve any praise outside the organization. Lots of hockey insiders, HF writers, and fans around the league generally like the crop of youngsters we have in the pipleline. Some routinely rank us in the top 5 in the league.

Has that happened before with the Kings? No.

So while it's easy to compare the Dave Taylor Pipeline to the DL pipeline just by looking at age and nothing else. It's better if you conversate with actual hockey people that know what they are talking about and not a bunch of shrill fans.

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02-23-2011, 07:35 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Are you being serious?

You are comparing

Larry Murphy, Jim Fox, Bernie Nicholls, Garry Galley, Luc Robitaille, Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, and Rob Blake

with

Doughty, Clifford, Martinez, Lewis, Muzzin, and Lotkionov

and claiming that the second group is on the same level if not better???!!!!

* even better is your idea that Jim Fox was only a decent pick, yet you are touting Muzzin as a great pick (Muzzin was drafted by the Penguins, BTW) *
I never compared the two groups of players FFS, if you guys would actually sit and READ.

PSP claimed the drafting in the 80's was good, I said not a chance in hell it was good and proceeded to show that there were 8 players in a decade of drafting THAT EVER DID ANYTHING IN THE NHL, BE IT HOF TO MORE THAN 50 GAMES,

8 players in 10 years is not good drafting, sorry, it's simply not.

I then compared the drafting of the 80's, to DL's 4 years of drafting, where he already has players who have DONE SOMETHING IN THE NHL,

But hell, you guys don't wanna read, and just make **** up, why be different, Doughty is to Murphy as Clifford is to Gretzky, hell there it is, ffs.

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02-23-2011, 07:35 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
Oh and for those who say DL inherited a farm system that was completely bare, here's the HF organizational rankings from a few months before he was hired.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...l_rankings115/

The problem wasn't the players in the system so much as it was the system around the players.

Facilities, organization, staff, etc. This is what was **** when DL got here and this is what he improved. Sure we had good prospects... but we busted on so many of them because we didn't develop them properly once they got here.

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02-23-2011, 07:37 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
Here is an article from 2004 using a term that's become a buzzword now in the Lombardi regime...
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...in_manchester/



Laugh if you will at some of the names in that list, but like I said in a previous post, I guarantee you that 7 years from now people will look back at some of the prospects in our current list and laugh at how much we overrated them. Prospects are just that...prospects for the future. Nothing is for certain, and like PSP said earlier, we've heard this same song and dance about prospects leading us to the promised land before. For god's sake, who can forget the essays that the poster 'jt' used to write on the other site about how Dave Taylor and the Kings were finally doing it the right way by going with a young movement.
Except the "youth movement" by DT was abandoned, by DT, whoops, forgot to point that out eh?

Also as other posters have pointed out, the scouting/development of those prospects was absolutely atrocious, so of course it didn't work,

Things are all around different this time, we aren't trading Clifford for Recchi ffs, and we actually have a farm system that develops players.

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02-23-2011, 07:38 PM
  #319
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I really laugh at anyone who says "Kings fans need to LEARN how to be patient."

There are only two kinds of Kings fans... the patient kind and the new kind. Because either you have been a fan for a while and have to be patient to still be a fan, or you just haven't been a fan for more than 2-3 years.

If anyone is impatient, its only after years and years and years of being frigging patient. So while some more patience may be a virtue, don't anyone dare tell us we need to LEARN how to do it. Been there, done that, sick of it.

I guess there is one other kind of Kings fan, but it kind of applies to all of us - the masochistic kind.

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02-23-2011, 07:40 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
Oh and for those who say DL inherited a farm system that was completely bare, here's the HF organizational rankings from a few months before he was hired.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...l_rankings115/
Who said DL didn't inherit anybody?

DL built a great development program for our youngsters. Something the kings never had.

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02-23-2011, 07:47 PM
  #321
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I never compared the two groups of players FFS, if you guys would actually sit and READ.

PSP claimed the drafting in the 80's was good, I said not a chance in hell it was good and proceeded to show that there were 8 players in a decade of drafting THAT EVER DID ANYTHING IN THE NHL, BE IT HOF TO MORE THAN 50 GAMES,

8 players in 10 years is not good drafting, sorry, it's simply not.

I then compared the drafting of the 80's, to DL's 4 years of drafting, where he already has players who have DONE SOMETHING IN THE NHL,

But hell, you guys don't wanna read, and just make **** up, why be different, Doughty is to Murphy as Clifford is to Gretzky, hell there it is, ffs.
So those 8 players drafted by Lombardi have done more than ALL players drafted in the 80s (aside from the 8 great picks discussed already)?

Maybe what you wrote is not what you meant, but you clearly compared the two:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Yea, that is crappy drafting, when you are talking A DECADE of drafting,

10 YEARS of drafting and they ended up with 8 players, 3 of them that never really played for the Kings, Fox was decent but never a "star" but he had a good career, same with Nicholls, who was more talented, etc,

10 years of drafting should net you more than 8 players, hell DL's what, 4 years of drafting has netted the Kings, Doughty, Clifford, Martinez, Lewis, Muzzin, Lotkionov, etc, that's six right there in 4 years, and that's not counting Voynov or Schenn who everyone wants in the NHL today, you count those two, and that's 8 in 4 years, yea, I would say the Kings drafting in the 80's was pretty damn shoddy.
So in the 80's decade, according to you, the Kings drafted 8 "players"... Yet in 4 years alone, DL has drafted 8. Yes you clearly compared the two.

You also continue to claim that Muzzin was drafted by DL, which is wrong. Muzzin was drafted by Pittsburgh, and later signed with LA as a free agent.


Last edited by RonSwanson*: 02-23-2011 at 07:52 PM.
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02-23-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Maybe what you wrote is not what you meant, but you clearly compared the two:



So in the 80's decade, according to you, the Kings drafted 8 "players"... Yet in 4 years alone, DL has drafted 8. Yes you clearly compared the two.

You also continue to claim that Muzzin was drafted by DL, which is wrong. Muzzin was drafted by Pittsburgh, and later signed with LA as a free agent.
Yea, I was wrong on Muzzin,

As far as comparing the two groups, again, did not happen in the sense that you, PSP, Tikkanen and JT wanted it to.

The only comparison is that they have played in the NHL, otherwise, WTF would I bring up draft picks?

If I am comparing a drafting time 30 years ago, to 4 years ago, why in the hell would I even consider bringing up games played, points etc, that's idiotic.

What I did say was, in a decade of drafting, the Kings over the 80's drafted 8 players that stuck, could be as many as 14 though if the other poster posted guys like Terrion etc, but let's say between 8 and 14, that is crap drafting,

Just for considersation and nothing to deep here,

Edmonton same time frame - easily 16 players
Detroit same time frame - easily 30 players
Montreal same time frame - easily 29 players
Philadelphia same time frame - easily 15 players
Toronto same time frame - easily 22 players,

LA had easily EIGHT PLAYERS, 14 is a stretch,

But let's go with the illusion that LA drafted well in the 80's

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02-23-2011, 08:10 PM
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The logic I don't understand is "Since the Kings traded away 90% of their 1st round draft picks in the 80s and 90s, that means that the Kings should not trade one 1st round draft pick now."

I know no one has said this specifically, but its an argument that is used a lot.

"Hey, we should offer around Voynonv or Schenn or someone."

"DT traded all the youth! ON NOS!"

As if a decade of a philosophy of trading youth for vets is the same as making one carefully considered move that involves getting a more established player for a less established player.

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02-23-2011, 08:16 PM
  #324
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Jimmy Carsons only real success was with the Kings. He may have had his one team success away from LA but as far as his overall play the only time he ever played at such a high level was with LA. His first season with Edm was his best away.

There are just too many huge differences between the Kings and the type of talent that is in our system today to even begin to compare them with anytime before in Kings history in my opinion.

The other and most critical thing to consider is that we finally have a system that has been designed to be or become a pipeline of that will provide talented young players to our big club as they become read and need requires.

We have never, not one time ever in our teams history had a generational talent on our blue line and then doubly so when you consider the fact that many consider JJ to be developing into a player that could eventually be on par with players of Rob Blake's talent level.

Not to mention the fact that we also have two legitimate starting NHL goalies both young and both true #1's, that has never happened at any point in Kings history and really, the closest we came to it was when we had RV in net but he was without a true number one as a back up. We also have a rapidly developing Jones on the farm who is starting to make people consider that he could become a number one goalie down the line as well.


We are totally different now then we have ever been. Our depth has never had so many touted/coveted young players on it. I also agree that it isn't just HF or Kings fans that are saying this, its pretty much everyone.

Its cool to have your doubts about our ability to take the skill that we have on the team and down on the farm and win a cup with it but its silly to try and compare where we are today with any other point in Kings history in as far as a total team. From top to bottom, from juniours to the echl to the ahl and the NHL we have never been so staked.

I would also add that how do you compare todays GM and staff with any of the GM's and staffs we have had before? I liked DT and feel that he was on the cusp of doing something solid before he got the axe but that was then and again, we have an entirely different amount of depth and an entirely different amount of structure today then we did then so I can't see any true basis for comparison.

In my opinion anyway and none of what I have written should be construed as anything other than conjecture and opinion and then only as my own.


Last edited by etherialone: 02-23-2011 at 08:22 PM.
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02-23-2011, 08:24 PM
  #325
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I also agree that there is a time when you can not only start trading org depth for key pieces but also draft picks whether it is a first second or whatever.

That is were DL steps in and does the right thing hopefully.

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