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Old
02-24-2011, 01:15 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
You make sure he's the right fit because, though you could just waive him if he doesn't, you only get one shot at bringing someone in.
Not necessarily. For example you could afford cap wise to bring in both Zherdev and a guy like Chris Higgins.

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02-24-2011, 01:22 AM
  #77
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Well he's not the right fit. 60% of the players in this league aren't the right fit because Bylsma think he knows something. In actuality he just doesn't know how to coach finesse players, but whatever I'm getting off topic. Zherdev is a bad example anyways because he obviously has some glaring deficiencies that teams don't want to touch.

The main point is that yeah he's not the right fit. He's also skilled and can score goals. If you're Shero unless you're afraid of the 1% chance of losing in the first round instead of the second because he had a lazy backcheck or coughed up the puck, stop thinking so much and just pick him up.

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02-24-2011, 01:32 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Aud Won View Post
Not necessarily. For example you could afford cap wise to bring in both Zherdev and a guy like Chris Higgins.
The point is, there is only one deadline.

They could bring in Kovalev & Arnott instead, and you know what you can expect from Kovalev & Arnott because they have been there before. Deep into playoffs.

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02-24-2011, 01:35 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
The point is, there is only one deadline.

They could bring in Kovalev & Arnott instead, and you know what you can expect from Kovalev & Arnott because they have been there before. Deep into playoffs.
Cap wise those two players wouldn't fit. Heck just to get Kovalev we'd have to send three players down. An at the moment it appears we'll have to call up another defense men.

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02-24-2011, 02:22 AM
  #80
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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. Are people really *****ing that a guy is only concerned with offense? Do you not know how many forwards we have out right now? Do you know how that last three games played out?

Would playing Zherdev over Connor or Wallace suddenly turn the defensive sound Pens into the 2010 Caps? Or is it much more likely the Pens score a few more goals and maybe get an extra win or two?

With the injuries we're going through right now, we can give Z a week or two tryout to see if he fits. If he doesn't just waive him again, no harm no foul. Like I said, he'd be taking the spot of a Connor or Wallace not a Cooke or Kennedy, so what's the big ****ing deal? Hell, there's a possibility (although small) that he clicks here and now the winger situation is solved.

Goin by that same logic I'd claim Svatos as well for the same reasons. This is a no risk/high reward situation, or do people really think that a few weeks of Z is going to completely ruin the Pens?

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02-24-2011, 03:16 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
The point is, there is only one deadline.

They could bring in Kovalev & Arnott instead, and you know what you can expect from Kovalev & Arnott because they have been there before. Deep into playoffs.
Theres literally no way the Penguins can aquire BOTH Arnott and Kovalev, especially if Crosby is expected to return at anytime before the playoffs

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02-24-2011, 06:22 AM
  #82
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Shero should put in the claim, but i doubt he will.

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02-24-2011, 06:38 AM
  #83
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I don't see the harm if he doesn't see a lot of ES ice time and is used primarily on the PP.

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02-24-2011, 07:17 AM
  #84
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Absolutely not. He's the TO of hockey and he was even a big enough d-wash to get thrown off of the Flyers.

Pass pass pass. People that want this guy aren't thinking clearly.

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02-24-2011, 07:19 AM
  #85
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Absolutely not. He's the TO of hockey and he was even a big enough d-wash to get thrown off of the Flyers.

Pass pass pass. People that want this guy aren't thinking clearly.
What do you think the team could accomplish that would be endangered by having Zherdev on the team for 2 months?

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02-24-2011, 07:23 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
What do you think the team could accomplish that would be endangered by having Zherdev on the team for 2 months?
Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt his talent at all. The thing that worries me is that he's been a cancer in 3 different locker rooms, including the sewer in Philly.

He's got a reputation as a pain in the ass and that's the last thing we really need right now. We need to keep the locker room upbeat and pushing forward or we're already dead in the water.

The only benefit (play on the ice aside) that I can see to adding this guy to the locker room would be as a focal point of someone to not like and rally around that. Sounds like a dicey situation at best for me.

Do you really want to take a chance on a guy with a history like this and at this point that we're currently at?

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02-24-2011, 07:24 AM
  #87
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They also think Sterling needs to be on the big club next year. Noted.

As far as Zherdev goes, there is zero.....repeat......ZERO risk in taking him on. You give up no assets, only pay a fraction of his salary, and you don't have to worry about whether or not you want him here next year. If he passes through it's a mistake sorry. They lose absolutely nothing by taking him on. With all his flaws he's better than 75% of their forwards, end of story.
This is pretty much it. Besides, do people really think Zherdev is more of a liability than Sterling? Or that he will provide less than Talbot does at the moment? Please.

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02-24-2011, 07:30 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt his talent at all. The thing that worries me is that he's been a cancer in 3 different locker rooms, including the sewer in Philly.

He's got a reputation as a pain in the ass and that's the last thing we really need right now. We need to keep the locker room upbeat and pushing forward or we're already dead in the water.

The only benefit (play on the ice aside) that I can see to adding this guy to the locker room would be as a focal point of someone to not like and rally around that. Sounds like a dicey situation at best for me.

Do you really want to take a chance on a guy with a history like this and at this point that we're currently at?

Sorry, but I just don't buy that. Wasn't Bill Guerin also supposed to be a locker room cancer? Show me a link from each team where it states he was a distraction. And even IF he's a ******, so what? We can just wave him. We won two cups with one of the biggest locker room cancers of all time in goal.

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02-24-2011, 07:31 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt his talent at all. The thing that worries me is that he's been a cancer in 3 different locker rooms, including the sewer in Philly.

He's got a reputation as a pain in the ass and that's the last thing we really need right now. We need to keep the locker room upbeat and pushing forward or we're already dead in the water.

The only benefit (play on the ice aside) that I can see to adding this guy to the locker room would be as a focal point of someone to not like and rally around that. Sounds like a dicey situation at best for me.

Do you really want to take a chance on a guy with a history like this and at this point that we're currently at?
Those are great points to be honest. As far as the last question, I don't really know what chance we're taking. This season is shot unless Crosby comes back and I don't know how anyone can't be thinking in the back of their minds that that's simply not happening. Is it optimal? Hell no. My point is just if we can add a guy that can score and still add one or two more then what the hell? I'd argue the complete opposite of what you implied at the end. This season has gone from great to worst case scenario. Like I already wrote a ways up on this page, what are the risks really? There really are none realistically.

One player is not going to lose us a series or single-handedly drop us out of the playoffs. There's a slight chance he could win a game or two for us though. Hell play him once in a blue moon like they did with Satan in the playoffs when they won the Cup if you must.

I know most of this sounds like I disagree with you but like I said you made a bunch of valid points. I'm just speaking from the "what do we have to lose?" club.

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02-24-2011, 07:36 AM
  #90
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It would make me very, very happy if we got Zherdev. Both because of how good he could be if he played to capacity and got the role he needs, and also because of it saying that it isn't COMPLETELY alien to Shero to go for a skill winger.

Not that I believe Zherdev won't be picked up much sooner than we could pick him off waivers, but if..... should Zherdev be a success for us, there'd be that much more of a chance to sign him for next season, and if you think of having Sid, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz and Zherdev for 5 of the top6 spots with Staal, Kennedy and Cooke for the third line and Letestu, Jeffrey and Tangradi somewhere in the mix.... and you don't find yourself getting hard.... then I'd be consulting with a man in white for some of those blue pills.

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02-24-2011, 07:51 AM
  #91
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Sorry, but I just don't buy that. Wasn't Bill Guerin also supposed to be a locker room cancer? Show me a link from each team where it states he was a distraction. And even IF he's a ******, so what? We can just wave him. We won two cups with one of the biggest locker room cancers of all time in goal.
Sometimes winners don't do well in a loser room. Zherdev is allegedly a loner (CBJ fans), demonstrably a dog on D (Philthy), and kind of a punchline (Rags fans).

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02-24-2011, 07:56 AM
  #92
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It would make me very, very happy if we got Zherdev. Both because of how good he could be if he played to capacity and got the role he needs, and also because of it saying that Shero is not COMPLETELY alien to go for a skill winger.

Not that I believe Zherdev won't be picked up much sooner than we could pick, but if..... should Zherdev be a success for us, there'd be that much more of a chance to sign him for next season, and if you think of having Sid, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz and Zherdev for 5 of the top6 spots with Staal, Kennedy and Cooke for the third line and Letestu, Jeffrey and Tangradi somewhere in the mix.... and you don't find yourself getting hard.... then I'd be consulting with a man in white for some of those blue pills.
I may be bordering on troll territory with this but here goes.....

The thing is Bylsma will never allow any of the possible positive outcomes you mentioned to happen. One reason is that he loathes players like Zherdev. Not just Zherdev, who is a husk of a prideful hockey player that happens to be very talented, but ALL players like him i.e., total finesse players. The other reason is related to the first: He hates them partly because his dirty little secret is that he can't coach them. If a guy doesn't go kamikaze into the corners and throw low percentage pucks at the net he doesn't know what to tell them to do.

Malkin is tolerated because he's so good, however he's still not completely immune. Any time experimentation occurs with the lines or the power play Malkin is tossed around like a rag doll. Mind you this isn't an excuse for anything. He's still out on the ice playing and I've had far less of a problem with his personal play than many so I'm not making excuses for faults I mostly don't believe exist.

Bylsma's "philosphy" (which is just the basic message every coach tries to instill in his team and nothing more) and shortcomings prevent a player like Zherdev, slug or not, to thrive. When things don't go well he'll just bury you and cite poor play, production be damned while someone that's never scored more than 12 goals takes your place. Because that's how he rolls.

When Malkin wasn't scoring and Bylsma was asked why he began his response with "I don't know". Yes he literally said that. Then he said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "His totals look good in terms of shots, scoring chances, etc. so we don't know". See this is why I have an underlying hatred for Bylsma. He can't figure out a player's struggles because quantitative analysis tells him he should be scoring. You know what that means? IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO START COACHING. Instead he says "I don't know."

A player like Zherdev that has heart anything short of Marian Hossa's will never succeed here. He'll be bounced around the lineup and jerked around because he doesn't "fit in" here, when in actuality we're just a hockey team and the player has magically had success in other cities. Why is that? Because the other team just didn't know what they were doing? That they weren't doing it "the Penguins way"? BS. There's more than one way to skin a cat or in this case, win a Cup. We're not better than everyone else, period.

There are many positives to Bylsma's style of coaching. There are many negatives too. Make no mistake it does not lend itself to optimizing offensive players. This is shrouded by the fact that Crosby is just so damn good it doesn't matter who's coaching him. Neal is here now and I would imagine at least one satisfactory addition will be made to the top 6 over the summer. We'll see how it all plays out, but from what I've seen and what I know I believe that this time next year we'll be happy but wondering why player X and player Y aren't doing quite as well as we expected.

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02-24-2011, 08:07 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I may be bordering on troll territory with this but here goes.....

The thing is Bylsma will never allow any of the possible positive outcomes you mentioned to happen. One reason is that he loathes players like Zherdev. Not just Zherdev, who is a husk of a prideful hockey player that happens to be very talented, but ALL players like him i.e., total finesse players. The other reason is related to the first: He hates them partly because his dirty little secret is that he can't coach them. If a guy doesn't go kamikaze into the corners and throw low percentage pucks at the net he doesn't know what to tell them to do.

Malkin is tolerated because he's so good, however he's still not completely immune. Any time experimentation occurs with the lines or the power play Malkin is tossed around like a rag doll. Mind you this isn't an excuse for anything. He's still out on the ice playing and I've had far less of a problem with his personal play than many so I'm not making excuses for faults I mostly don't believe exist.

Bylsma's "philosphy" (which is just the basic message every coach tries to instill in his team and nothing more) and shortcomings prevent a player like Zherdev, slug or not, to thrive. When things don't go well he'll just bury you and cite poor play, production be damned while someone that's never scored more than 12 goals takes your place. Because that's how he rolls.

When Malkin wasn't scoring and Bylsma was asked why he began his response with "I don't know". Yes he literally said that. Then he said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "His totals look good in terms of shots, scoring chances, etc. so we don't know". See this is why I have an underlying hatred for Bylsma. He can't figure out a player's struggles because quantitative analysis tells him he should be scoring. You know what that means? IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO START COACHING. Instead he says "I don't know."

A player like Zherdev that has heart anything short of Marian Hossa's will never succeed here. He'll be bounced around the lineup and jerked around because he doesn't "fit in" here, when in actuality we're just a hockey team and the player has magically had success in other cities. Why is that? Because the other team just didn't know what they were doing? That they weren't doing it "the Penguins way"? BS. There's more than one way to skin a cat or in this case, win a Cup. We're not better than everyone else, period.

There are many positives to Bylsma's style of coaching. There are many negatives too. Make no mistake it does not lend itself to optimizing offensive players. This is shrouded by the fact that Crosby is just so damn good it doesn't matter who's coaching him. Neal is here now and I would imagine at least one satisfactory addition will be made to the top 6 over the summer. We'll see how it all plays out, but from what I've seen and what I know I believe that this time next year we'll be happy but wondering why player X and player Y aren't doing quite as well as we expected.
You have very good points. One thing I always wondered though, why was he in love with Goligoski. I mean I always loved him and thought he was a great player, but I also like skill players unlike DB. I mean Gogo is pretty much "Skill guy who doesn't play tough"-mothership. So what is it? Yes he hussles, but Poni tried too and yet he was buried on the 4th line after a couple of games. Is it because he is a defensman or because he does so many other things DB likes? If Shero doesn't put in a claim because of Bylsma, we have a problem.

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02-24-2011, 08:12 AM
  #94
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You have very good points. One thing I always wondered though, why was he in love with Goligoski. I mean I always loved him and thought he was a great player, but I also like skill players unlike DB. I mean Gogo is pretty much "Skill guy who doesn't play tough"-mothership. So what is it? Yes he hussles, but Poni tried too and yet he was buried on the 4th line after a couple of games. Is it because he is a defensman or because he does so many other things DB likes? If Shero doesn't put in a claim because of Bylsma, we have a problem.
I don't really think he loved or hated Goligoski I just think he played him where and when he should play to his credit. 5th Dman, try not to get stuck with him out there against really good forwards, point man on the PP. I thought he used him properly.

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02-24-2011, 08:14 AM
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You have very good points. One thing I always wondered though, why was he in love with Goligoski. I mean I always loved him and thought he was a great player, but I also like skill players unlike DB. I mean Gogo is pretty much "Skill guy who doesn't play tough"-mothership. So what is it? Yes he hussles, but Poni tried too and yet he was buried on the 4th line after a couple of games. Is it because he is a defensman or because he does so many other things DB likes? If Shero doesn't put in a claim because of Bylsma, we have a problem.
I think DB loved Goligoski because he was a "get pucks north quickly" player. If you watch the post game presser from last night he almost sounds more impressed with Niskanen than Neal.

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02-24-2011, 08:22 AM
  #96
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I don't really think he loved or hated Goligoski I just think he played him where and when he should play to his credit. 5th Dman, try not to get stuck with him out there against really good forwards, point man on the PP. I thought he used him properly.
I think he really really liked him. Shero also said DB was very upset that Gogo was traded. And the minutes suggest he wasn't really a number 5. I just think Zherdev could be used the same way. Play him 12 minutes on ES and 5 minutes on the PP and there it is.

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02-24-2011, 08:23 AM
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I think DB loved Goligoski because he was a "get pucks north quickly" player. If you watch the post game presser from last night he almost sounds more impressed with Niskanen than Neal.
True. I just think that if you're a good coach you think of yourself to be able to get a skilled guy like Zherdev to fit into your system.

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02-24-2011, 08:25 AM
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I have NEVER wanted Zherdev on this team.....................until now. I agree with most of what you say here Brooks44, but if he falls to the Pens, Shero claims him, and his negatives are still prevalent even though he was just waived by a team, then he won't be here long. No real harm done. There's no contract to make things muddy. There's nothing sent the other way in terms of picks or prospects, so there's no gamble at all. Some on here are saying he's worth the risk because the line-up is so depleted. What risk? He comes here, Shero and Byslma, can give him the lecture, "These are the things we expect from you, these are the things that won't be tolerated," and if he doesn't or won't learn, then he sits until he's gone. Do you think our players are going to be swayed or divided by 2-3 months of some prima-donna attitude? There are guys in that locker room that wouldn't let that happen. (Brooks anyone?) Personally, with things as bad as they are right now, I'd have NO problem with Shero claiming Z and trading a late round pick for Kovalev. No real long term negatives if either don't work out. Just my 2 pennies.

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02-24-2011, 08:26 AM
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I think we have nothing to lose if we put in a claim for Zherdev and Svatos.

Both are UFA so it doesn't really matter, right?

If we get Zherdev, he'll just get the Sykora/Satan treatment from Bylsma AT WORST, but nothing to lose really.

I think Shero should put a claim in on both...really what the **** do we have to lose?
Not like our team chemistry will be ****ed because some LAZY players come here for 2 months...

If we get one or both, let them play for 2 months and let them walk.
If not, who the **** cares? Makes no difference.

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02-24-2011, 08:30 AM
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I have NEVER wanted Zherdev on this team.....................until now. I agree with most of what you say here Brooks44, but if he falls to the Pens, Shero claims him, and his negatives are still prevalent even though he was just waived by a team, then he won't be here long. No real harm done. There's no contract to make things muddy. There's nothing sent the other way in terms of picks or prospects, so there's no gamble at all. Some on here are saying he's worth the risk because the line-up is so depleted. What risk? He comes here, Shero and Byslma, can give him the lecture, "These are the things we expect from you, these are the things that won't be tolerated," and if he doesn't or won't learn, then he sits until he's gone. Do you think our players are going to be swayed or divided by 2-3 months of some prima-donna attitude? There are guys in that locker room that wouldn't let that happen. (Brooks anyone?) Personally, with things as bad as they are right now, I'd have NO problem with Shero claiming Z and trading a late round pick for Kovalev. No real long term negatives if either don't work out. Just my 2 pennies.
You won't hear me arguing with you because in addition to that long post of mine if you scroll up a little more I basically said exactly what you just said haha.

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