HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Past Kings Draft, Trade, Free Agent Signing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-23-2011, 07:30 PM
  #326
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
PSP claimed the drafting in the 80's was good, I said not a chance in hell it was good and proceeded to show that there were 8 players in a decade of drafting THAT EVER DID ANYTHING IN THE NHL, BE IT HOF TO MORE THAN 50 GAMES,
Link?

Please stop exaggerating and misstating my position

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 07:43 PM
  #327
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,416
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
The logic I don't understand is "Since the Kings traded away 90% of their 1st round draft picks in the 80s and 90s, that means that the Kings should not trade one 1st round draft pick now."

I know no one has said this specifically, but its an argument that is used a lot.

"Hey, we should offer around Voynonv or Schenn or someone."

"DT traded all the youth! ON NOS!"

As if a decade of a philosophy of trading youth for vets is the same as making one carefully considered move that involves getting a more established player for a less established player.
Right, which finally brings us back to Helene's point. You can stare at numbers, depth charts, a magic 8 ball but sometimes you do have to go with your gut. That LW position isn't going to fix itself. Let's say Lombardi does trade Schenn for Richards-BOTH teams are taking a risk. Schenn could be the next Aki Berg. I love the kid, love his game and his attitude but he still hasn't prven he is going to be as good as most of us think. He could bomb out. Richards could not play a single game in a Kings uniform suffering from a concussion (which is very likely). The bottom line is both GM's are taking a risk when making a deal. These guys aren't robots or stocks.

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 08:09 PM
  #328
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,828
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
I wonder when Dean will figure out that the problems with the Kings offense is Murray and the stupid philosophy that all 20 players must play "hard" at all times.

Boyle, Moulson and Purcell have all found success outside of Tedey's stupid board system. Will Loktionov, Martinez and Moller be next?

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 08:16 PM
  #329
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I wonder when Dean will figure out that the problems with the Kings offense is Murray and the stupid philosophy that all 20 players must play "hard" at all times.

Boyle, Moulson and Purcell have all found success outside of Tedey's stupid board system. Will Loktionov, Martinez and Moller be next?
I usually agree with most of what you have to say.

But come on man, you really need to realize that this isn't just Murray's system. This is exactly the kind of team Dean wants to build. Murray is the ideal coach to run Dean Lombardi's defense first, grind it out, try and win every game 2-1 style.

As long as Lombardi is GM and the Kings are playing deadpuck 1997 style hockey we probably won't have a better coach for that system than TM.

Herby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 08:23 PM
  #330
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
PSP claimed the drafting in the 80's was good, I said not a chance in hell it was good and proceeded to show that there were 8 players in a decade of drafting THAT EVER DID ANYTHING IN THE NHL, BE IT HOF TO MORE THAN 50 GAMES,

8 players in 10 years is not good drafting, sorry, it's simply not.

I then compared the drafting of the 80's, to DL's 4 years of drafting, where he already has players who have DONE SOMETHING IN THE NHL,
IMO, anyone who plays more than 500 NHL games qualify as "doing something" in the NHL

FWIW, the Kings drafted 13 players in the 80s who played more than 500 games. They also signed Steve Duchesne as an undrafted free agent - that's 14

Was it good drafting? No, not really

Was it as bad as you make it out to be? Clearly no

The proof will be in the tangible results - until then, it's all bluster

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 08:44 PM
  #331
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,828
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I usually agree with most of what you have to say.

But come on man, you really need to realize that this isn't just Murray's system. This is exactly the kind of team Dean wants to build. Murray is the ideal coach to run Dean Lombardi's defense first, grind it out, try and win every game 2-1 style.

As long as Lombardi is GM and the Kings are playing deadpuck 1997 style hockey we probably won't have a better coach for that system than TM.
Did the Sharks play the same dead-puck style while Dean was GM? Crawford didn't and Dean was the GM that hired him.

Dean has drafted a lot of skilled, smallish players. Hickey, Moller, Loktionov, Azevedo and Kozun.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 08:59 PM
  #332
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
1986: Core: none
Serviceable: Jimmy Carson (I know, three great seasons, but he was more bust than boom overall)
... LMAO are you serious with this??? I suppose the next Kings' player to come along and score 50 goals as a 19-year-old, you're going to say "well, that guy right there, he's a serviceable player."

Carson was the best player the Oilers received when they traded away Wayne Gretzky. That's a tremendous amount of pressure for a guy turning only 20. It turned out to be too much for him. It's easy in hindsight to say Carson was a bust, but there were very unusual circumstances involved; circumstances we'll likely never see again in the NHL.

The Kings had been looking to acquire Gretzky since 1985. When the opportunity finally came after three years, the Kings had to jump on it. Carson was a center, he had to be the one to go in the trade. If Gretzky were a left wing, Robitaille would have been traded away instead - and we might all be here today looking at Carson as the current executive VP of the Kings, in the Hall of Fame, his #17 retired and on the wall of Staples Center, right next to Dionne's #16 - the true heir to Dionne's throne as the Kings' great center. Imagine that, huh? #16 replaced by #17, with #18 playing right wing alongside both of them. Sometimes, life isn't that symmetrical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
IMO, anyone who plays more than 500 NHL games qualify as "doing something" in the NHL

FWIW, the Kings drafted 13 players in the 80s who played more than 500 games. They also signed Steve Duchesne as an undrafted free agent - that's 14

Was it good drafting? No, not really

Was it as bad as you make it out to be? Clearly no

The proof will be in the tangible results - until then, it's all bluster
... Pretty much 100% in agreement with this.

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 09:18 PM
  #333
DryIslandBartender
KCCO
 
DryIslandBartender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... LMAO are you serious with this??? I suppose the next Kings' player to come along and score 50 goals as a 19-year-old, you're going to say "well, that guy right there, he's a serviceable player."

Carson was the best player the Oilers received when they traded away Wayne Gretzky. That's a tremendous amount of pressure for a guy turning only 20. It turned out to be too much for him. It's easy in hindsight to say Carson was a bust, but there were very unusual circumstances involved; circumstances we'll likely never see again in the NHL.

The Kings had been looking to acquire Gretzky since 1985. When the opportunity finally came after three years, the Kings had to jump on it. Carson was a center, he had to be the one to go in the trade. If Gretzky were a left wing, Robitaille would have been traded away instead - and we might all be here today looking at Carson as the current executive VP of the Kings, in the Hall of Fame, his #17 retired and on the wall of Staples Center, right next to Dionne's #16 - the true heir to Dionne's throne as the Kings' great center. Imagine that, huh? #16 replaced by #17, with #18 playing right wing alongside both of them. Sometimes, life isn't that symmetrical.



... Pretty much 100% in agreement with this.
I'm glad Carson was traded away, he wasn't going to replicate that 50 goal season. He stated so, saying his heart wasn't into the game. He's had talent, no question but he just wasn't into the game anymore.


“In a weird way, I knew Jimmy’s heart was not as much into it,” says McNall of his friend, who neither smoked, drank nor partied with teammates. “He was an intellectual, multidimensional guy, read the Wall Street Journal, and so many other players just don’t have his opportunities and interests. So I always thought, deep down, that maybe long-term hockey wouldn’t be for him.”


http://thehockeywriters.com/what-eve...-jimmy-carson/

DryIslandBartender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 11:54 PM
  #334
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
No good drafts - like when they had 2 of the 3 Calder candidates in 1987?
PSP,

You asked for links, you are implying that the Kings had a good draft in 86, completely false, I just extended 86 to include the 80s so you can see how extremely bad the Kings were at drafting.

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 11:57 PM
  #335
no name
Registered User
 
no name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 11,754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
But come on man, you really need to realize that this isn't just Murray's system. This is exactly the kind of team Dean wants to build. Murray is the ideal coach to run Dean Lombardi's defense first, grind it out, try and win every game 2-1 style.

.
Nothing in Dean's career with the Kings and his career prior to the Kings supports this statement. San Jose was nothing like this and Dean has gone out of his way to take chances on players polar opposite of the system fit.

no name is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2011, 11:57 PM
  #336
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I assume that you are aware that free agency didn't exist back then - if you wanted a veteran talented player, you had to trade for them...
You do realize the reserve clause and the NHL parted ways directly after the WHA came to town right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_clause

Back in the day? Back in what day, I am pretty sure everyone here is talking minimum, 1980 and up.

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 12:30 AM
  #337
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... LMAO are you serious with this??? I suppose the next Kings' player to come along and score 50 goals as a 19-year-old, you're going to say "well, that guy right there, he's a serviceable player."

Carson was the best player the Oilers received when they traded away Wayne Gretzky. That's a tremendous amount of pressure for a guy turning only 20. It turned out to be too much for him. .
As I said, my definition of a core player was someone who could play on the top two lines for an NHL team for a decade, give or take. Outside of about five seasons, Carson wasn't that. I agree he had three incredible seasons, but regardless of if the Gretzky trade ruined him or not (I don't think it did personally), the bottom line is he didn't even have 10 full seasons in the NHL, nevermind being a core player for that length of time.

If it was based on just those three seasons, I'd agree he's a core guy, butthree seasons does not a career make.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 12:36 AM
  #338
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
IMO, anyone who plays more than 500 NHL games qualify as "doing something" in the NHL

FWIW, the Kings drafted 13 players in the 80s who played more than 500 games. They also signed Steve Duchesne as an undrafted free agent - that's 14

Was it good drafting? No, not really

Was it as bad as you make it out to be? Clearly no

The proof will be in the tangible results - until then, it's all bluster
500 games? Ok, let's use that as the benchmark, I was being more generous and using 300, but 500, ok, will use 300 for goaltenders.

Anaheim - Not around
Atlanta - Not around
Boston - 16 players from 80-89 at 500
Buffalo - 22 players
Calgary - 17 including Hakan Loob at 450 games, and Sergei Makarov at 424 games, I don't see how you can leave those 2 out when talking about Calgary.
Carolina - Not around
Chicago - 14 players
Colorado - Not around
Dallas - Not around
Detroit - 26 players including Konsantinov and Stefan who was at 299.
Edmonton - 12 players
Hartford - 16 players
Los Angeles - 13 players
Minnesota - 11 players
Montreal - 27 players
Nashville - Not around
New Jersey - 18 players and they only started in 1982
New York Islanders - 18 players
New York Rangers - 20 players
Philadelphia Flyers - 11 players
Phoenix Coyotes - Not around
Pittsburgh Penguins - 17 players
Quebec Nordiques - 22 players
San Jose Sharks - Not around
St. Louis Blues - 12 players
Tampa Bay Lightning -Not Around
Toronto Maple Leafs - 19 players
Vancouver Canucks - 17 players
Washington Capitals - 19 players
Winnipeg Jets - 19 players

FOUR out of 21 teams did worse than the Kings,

Edmonton
Philadelphia
Minnesota N.S.
St. Louis

Out of those 4, Edmonton drafted Lowe, Messier and Anderson in their first draft, 1979.

Out of those 4, between 1980 and 1989

Los Angeles had 8 of 13 hit 500 points
Edmonton had 3 of 11 hit 500 points
Philadelphia had 4 of 11 hit 500 points
Minnesota had 2 of 11 hit 500 points
St. Louis had 3 of 11 hit 500 points and Emerson was 12 points away,

So you can say they where the BEST of the WORST, but in no way can you say they were actually GOOD at drafting in the 1980's.

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 12:58 AM
  #339
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
500 games? Ok, let's use that as the benchmark, I was being more generous and using 300, but 500, ok, will use 300 for goaltenders.

Anaheim - Not around
Atlanta - Not around
Boston - 16 players from 80-89 at 500
Buffalo - 22 players
Calgary - 17 including Hakan Loob at 450 games, and Sergei Makarov at 424 games, I don't see how you can leave those 2 out when talking about Calgary.
Carolina - Not around
Chicago - 14 players
Colorado - Not around
Dallas - Not around
Detroit - 26 players including Konsantinov and Stefan who was at 299.
Edmonton - 12 players
Hartford - 16 players
Los Angeles - 13 players
Minnesota - 11 players
Montreal - 27 players
Nashville - Not around
New Jersey - 18 players and they only started in 1982
New York Islanders - 18 players
New York Rangers - 20 players
Philadelphia Flyers - 11 players
Phoenix Coyotes - Not around
Pittsburgh Penguins - 17 players
Quebec Nordiques - 22 players
San Jose Sharks - Not around
St. Louis Blues - 12 players
Tampa Bay Lightning -Not Around
Toronto Maple Leafs - 19 players
Vancouver Canucks - 17 players
Washington Capitals - 19 players
Winnipeg Jets - 19 players

FOUR out of 21 teams did worse than the Kings,

Edmonton
Philadelphia
Minnesota N.S.
St. Louis

Out of those 4, Edmonton drafted Lowe, Messier and Anderson in their first draft, 1979.

Out of those 4, between 1980 and 1989

Los Angeles had 8 of 13 hit 500 points
Edmonton had 3 of 11 hit 500 points
Philadelphia had 4 of 11 hit 500 points
Minnesota had 2 of 11 hit 500 points
St. Louis had 3 of 11 hit 500 points and Emerson was 12 points away,

So you can say they where the BEST of the WORST, but in no way can you say they were actually GOOD at drafting in the 1980's.
Good analysis.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 12:59 AM
  #340
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
These arguments, that have taken over every thread I mean we did all notice that this was a thread about an article by HE and while yes, she did raise the topic regarding whether we should or shouldn't be making a deal (by the way, the first rule in the journalism hand book is that Controversy Sells. I am not kidding, go check out the AP handbook and see how often its mentioned and how valued it is) for this argument to be running rampant over every thread is somewhat ridiculous.

I mean I understand that it is the time of year for people to start panicking and over reacting in both directions but are we really going to allow ourselves to become yet another one of those fan sites that are ruined and over run by petty bickering?

I am not trying to say that there aren't some interesting points being made but the combative nature of these debates are starting to become reminiscent of every other fan site that I have seen.

HF is supposed to be a better place then the rest, that is why allot of fans come here. Sure the trade board has always been a madhouse but that is to be expected and you could argue the same about the main board if you wanted but I would disagree for the most part.

Maybe one thread discussing the merits of our teams drafting habits would do. Isn't there someway to make that happen?

Keep up the debate but I would caution us all to remember that it is a really slippery slope between fun and even heated debate and the same old argumentative B.S. that you see on every other website.

I am becoming a middle aged grumpy old man I guess and really who the F am I to speak out like this, maybe its time for a nap and a cookie or something. I guess I am just sick of watching something that I really enjoy wasting my time doing start to become something common.

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 01:06 AM
  #341
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,290
vCash: 500
It's really a shame that Edmonton was so terrible in the 80s due to their terrible drafting

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 01:34 AM
  #342
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
It's really a shame that Edmonton was so terrible in the 80s due to their terrible drafting
No one said that terrible drafting equates to a terrible team by itself. that said, Edmonton's terrible drafting in the 80's, especially the late 80's, was a key reason the team struggled in the mid-90's as stars left in not always so great trades and, outside of a few good picks, they couldn't be replaced adequately from within.

In my opinion, the Oilers, from about 1984 onward, are the worst drafting team in the NHL. Atlanta gives them a run for their money if you only look from 1999 to the present.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 01:48 AM
  #343
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,553
vCash: 500
Just wondering if the Kings make the playoffs if Not Helen is going to give Dean credit for standing pat and not giving away the store for a second tier star.

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 01:53 AM
  #344
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Just wondering if the Kings make the playoffs if Not Helen is going to give Dean credit for standing pat and not giving away the store for a second tier star.
Of course she will, Hack writers are not worried about their rep.

damacles1156 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 06:56 AM
  #345
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
It's really a shame that Edmonton was so terrible in the 80s due to their terrible drafting
LOL it helps when you draft 3 HOF's in 1979, you draft 2 HOF's in 1980, and 1 more in 1981, and you don't even have to draft the greatest player in the game, you buy him from Indianapolis.

But hey, let's not have facts stand in your way, k?

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 08:03 AM
  #346
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Just wondering if the Kings make the playoffs if Not Helen is going to give Dean credit for standing pat and not giving away the store for a second tier star.
16 of 30 teams make the playoffs. Making the playoffs in year five is not some kind of an achievement.

The Kings should win a round this year and be ready to compete next season.

Herby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 09:52 AM
  #347
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
16 of 30 teams make the playoffs. Making the playoffs in year five is not some kind of an achievement.

The Kings should win a round this year and be ready to compete next season.
I agree with this statement. WHile I have advocated that we don't make a big deal, especially given the prices of players at the deadline, with the current team assembled we need to not only make the playoffs but also win a round. Make some sign of progress.

And then load up for next year. I wish DL would extend Doughty already, be nice to see a little more clearly how much cap space we'll have going forward.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 12:04 PM
  #348
DryIslandBartender
KCCO
 
DryIslandBartender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
16 of 30 teams make the playoffs. Making the playoffs in year five is not some kind of an achievement.

The Kings should win a round this year and be ready to compete next season.
Making the playoffs in back to back seasons is quite an achievement.

Especially with this group.

DryIslandBartender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 12:07 PM
  #349
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
If the Kings miss the playoffs, does anyone think we have even a hope of resigning Williams?

If we don't resign Williams, all of a sudden we have two huge holes in the top 6 going into next year.

I have my doubts about Williams willingness to resign even if we make the playoffs but get trounced early on.

TEAM MUST MAKE PROGRESS!

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 12:10 PM
  #350
DryIslandBartender
KCCO
 
DryIslandBartender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I agree with this statement. WHile I have advocated that we don't make a big deal, especially given the prices of players at the deadline, with the current team assembled we need to not only make the playoffs but also win a round. Make some sign of progress.

And then load up for next year. I wish DL would extend Doughty already, be nice to see a little more clearly how much cap space we'll have going forward.
This team has already improved from last years squad. By far.

Quick is going to be fresher, hope Williams continues his great play, Doughty/Johnson etc. have more seasoning under them. This is a far better club than last years. IMO.

Plus they will know what to expect when it comes to the playoffs. We're at 6th seed right now, and who knows where they go from here but the Kings don't have to make a deal.

DryIslandBartender is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.