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ATD 2011 Draft Thread V

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Old
02-24-2011, 02:29 PM
  #976
markrander87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
Considering that scoring usually drops when talent increases, and the ATD is quite a step up from NHL talent level, I would expect that unless you have a Bobby Clarke on you 2nd line type checking line, that nobody used in a checking role will net 50-60 points.

Here is a table comparing yearly average % of the league leaders in goals, assists and points. Walker is compared to the league leader, the others are compared to the 4th place finisher.

PlayerYearsGoalsAssistsPoints
Walker1628.8%44.6%36.6%
Gillies1443.8%38.0%43.5%
Duff1847.2%34.7%41.1%
Gainey1628.4%22.8%26.8%
Olmstead1441.8%74.0%63.6%

Note that Walker's NHA assist lead is capped at 100% by comparing to himself, and many of his other years will suffer from his being compared to Cyclone Taylor. Also his points % will be hurt by assists being awarded at less than 1 per goal during his career. His averages are further hurt by his playing only 1 game in 2 seasons. One he jumped to another league that isn't counted, and the other he went into military service during WWI.

Interesting table. Just curious to why you picked that certain group of players?

Also great pick with Malkin, he was on my shortlist

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02-24-2011, 02:39 PM
  #977
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God I am bad at judging goalies , and looking at the last ATD the order of goalie drafted is BRUTAL.

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02-24-2011, 02:42 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Interesting table. Just curious to why you picked that certain group of players?
They are all in the HHoF, and play LW. Although that last means little for Walker. I looked at 3 game recaps for the Detroit Cougars in 26-27, and Walker started all 3 games at a different forward position.

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Old
02-24-2011, 02:50 PM
  #979
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A guy that I think is just about on the same level of Dean Prentice, John Tonelli, and Rick Tocchet as glue guys because of his two-way ability, physicality, goal scoring ability, ability to turn it to a level that few could in the playoffs, and added chemistry bonus with Jean Beliveau, LW Dick Duff



7x NHL All Star Game Participant
6x Stanley Cup Champion
Hockey Hall of Famer
5x Top 20 Goals (8, 9, 11, 16, 20)
2x Top 20 Points (17, 18)
4x Top 10 Playoff Goals (4, 5, 7, 7)
6x Top 10 Playoff Assists (3, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9)
5x Top 10 Playoff Points (3, 4, 8, 9, 10)
Conn Smythe Runner Up 1969

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Dick was one of the central figures as the Maple Leafs re-built the team through the late-fifties, enjoying three consecutive seasons with 25 or more goals for Toronto between 1956-57 and 1959-59...Duff played a pivotal role in the Stanley Cup championship won by the Toronto Maple Leafs in 1962... Dick scored the Stanley Cup-winning goal on April 22, 1962, as Toronto edged Chicago 2-1... Having the chance to play for the Canadiens revitalized Duff's spirit and his play. With the Canadiens, Dick was part of four more Stanley Cup championships, winning hockey most treasured prize in 1965, 1966, 1968 and 1969.
-loh.net

Quote:
...Dick Duff had carved out a reputation as a guy who came to play every night. Pound-for-pound one of the toughest men in the game... Too small to be considered a power forward, Duff still managed to play like one. The 5-foot-9, 165-pound left winger did everything expected of bigger forwards. He battled for the puck, carried it through traffic and staked a claim to his spot in front of the enemy net.

The determined play and drive to win that made Duff a pivotal member of successful Toronto teams was not something he had left behind... Duff quickly became a fan favorite and an essential component of the Canadiens team that won the Stanley Cup in the spring of 1965, picking up nine playoff points along the way.

Long recognized as one of the NHLís most dogged competitors, Duff took his game to another level when the stakes were raised... Playoff pressure, while weighing heavily on many playersí shoulders, simply drove Duff to new heights
-ourhistory.canadiens.com

Quote:
Dick Duff was known as one of the best "money players" of all time. He tasted the sweet smell of Stanley Cup success six times during a 18-year NHL career. He always seemed to reach his peak in the playoffs where he earned his reputation as one of the greatest clutch playoff performers of all time.

Duff was a small and fast player. His was also the ultimate team player. He never made an All-Star team or won an individual trophy; wins and Cup titles were more important to Duff.

By no means was Duff the most spectacular player on the ice, but when the game was on the line, Duff was the go-to guy. Though small he was scrappy and determined. He had a little bit of Glenn Anderson or xxx in him with his flair for the big playoff goal.
-Pelletier

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He did well in his rookie year, scoring 18 goals and, in his aggressive play drew quite a few penalties... proved himself a good penalty killer. He was of somewhat slight build but did not hesitate to go into the corners with some of the hard rocks in the league. It was said, he wanted to Emulate the fiery Ted Lindsay.
-Trail of the Stanley Cup Vol. 3

Quote:
Jean Beliveau once said that Duff was uncanny around the goal, while Yvan Cournoyer loved playing alongside Duff because of his playmaking skills...He was a rare player who excelled during the regular season yet managed to raise his game to another level when The Stanley Cup was on the line... The Habs squeezed Chicago in game 7 in 1965 for the Cup. Duff Led the way with a goal and two assists in that deciding game... His heart was the biggest part of his body, and his skill was virtually limitless. He was hands down a player any coach in the league would have wanted on his team. Winning was his greatest strength.
-Honoured Canadiens

Quote:
He could be used on any line and fill any role. In 1969, Duff led the team in goals with six and finished second to Jean Beliveau in points with 14, and also finished second to Serge Savard in voting for the Conn Smythe Trophy.
-Habs Heroes: Greatest Habs from 1 to 100

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A smallish but tough LW
-Fischler's Hockey Encyclopedia

Quote:
A couple of Leafs showed some life when Dick Duff got under the skin of Rocket Richard (the Canadiens star roughed up the Leaf player and when Duff tried to retaliate, the Pocket Rocket intervened)
-Cold War: A Decade of Hockey's Greatest Rivalry, 1959-1969

Quote:
Still holds the record for the fastest two goals from the start of a playoff game (68 seconds), Indicative of his superior play when the Cup was at stake.
-Players: The Ultimate A-Z Guide Of Everyone Who Has Ever Played In the NHL

Quote:
Tiny but tough... an aggressive player and was effective both offensively and as a penalty killer...
-Hockey's Glory Days

Quote:
Duff was as tough as nails and never hesitated to drop the gloves if he had to... he was simply determined to score goals.
-Maple Leafs Legends

Quote:
Another problem, one that related directly to Mahovlich, was the fact that, offensively, Dick Duff had been carrying the team singlehandedly
-The Big M

Quote:
Speedy Dick Duff, to the confusion of many, hadn't been used much... "One thing I'll always wonder about this series, is why Toe didn't use Duff more", Boom Boom Geoffrion said afterwards.
-'67: The Maple Leafs, Their Sensational Victory, and The End Of An Empire

Quote:
Duff had a move that would drive defenders to distraction. He would come in quickly and low, kick the puck into his skates and through a defenseman's feet, and pick it up again behind the opponent. In effect, he was passing to himself, and it worked more often than not. He'd make that move while driving toward the net or crossing the ice out at the blueline, opening up miles of room for Yvan and myself.
-Jean Beliveau: My Life in Hockey

Quote:
In Montreal, Duff blossomed again as one of the best money players in the game, the most dangerous man on the ice when there was a big game to be won, especially in the playoffs. He still is, for my money.
-Hockey is a Battle

(thanks to seventies for that part of the bio)

Quote:
A prime catalyst in the Toronto Maple Leafs' 1962 Stanley Cup win...

A splendid two-way player
http://books.google.com/books?id=wpb...hockey&f=false

Quote:
Former Leafs star Dick Duff...
http://books.google.com/books?id=lcV...hockey&f=false

Quote:
The miracle Leafs of 1959 reached the Finals against Montreal but managed only one win on an overtime goal by none other than Dick Duff
http://books.google.com/books?id=Lrd...ed=0CEYQ6AEwBg

Quote:
Dick did all the work. He got past two guys and made a perfect play to set me up.-George Armstrong
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ick+duff&hl=en

Quote:
Toronto coach Punch Imlach said after the game the Blackhawks found "they can't push us around."

The man he singled out for special mention was Duff. Although Duff had no goals, "he was really going in after the puck. He sure was going hard."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ick+duff&hl=en

Quote:
The Toronto Maple Leafs, with Dave Keon and Dick Duff pacing their blistering attack...
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ick+duff&hl=en


Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 02-24-2011 at 03:21 PM.
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Old
02-24-2011, 02:53 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
God I am bad at judging goalies , and looking at the last ATD the order of goalie drafted is BRUTAL.
How so?

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02-24-2011, 02:57 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
A guy that I think is just about on the same level of Dean Prentice, John Tonelli, and Rick Tocchet as glue guys because of his two-way ability, physicality, goal scoring ability, ability to turn it to a level that few could in the playoffs, and added chemistry bonus with Jean Beliveau, LW Dick Duff)
Taken.

Edit: By you Always put the "This is for a player I already took" tag for bios in this thread, I reckon.

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02-24-2011, 03:01 PM
  #982
BenchBrawl
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
How so?
If you start at the last goalie that was drafted in the atd2011 , I quickly checked every goalie after that and the order is just really weird.

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Old
02-24-2011, 03:02 PM
  #983
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The problem with Tkachuk is that he was counted on to lead his team's offense and failed in the playoffs. He's one of a long line of power forwards who got too caught up in the physical game to take care of what was most important. So don't put him in that role here. Let him take on a secondary role - I think someone with his talent would excel if used as a physical presence to help a more talented player, who can take the attention and scoring pressure off of Keith.
Ehhhh...Tkachuk is like Heatley in that if you don't use him on a first unit powerplay, you are losing the biggest chunk of his offensive value. The guy was only three times a top-10 even strength goal-scorer, but seven times a top-10 powerplay goal-scorer. There will be players available 200 picks from now who were as good all-around as Tkachuk at even strength. But being the slotman on an ATD first unit powerplay is a lot of pressure...and therein lies the rub.

It's a bit of a paradox. I don't remember if you used Tkachuk on your first unit powerplay in ATD 2010...did you? Because if you didn't, you really slipped one by the rest of the GMs here. You don't draft Keith Tkachuk for his even strength offense, but you're a brave man, indeed, if you give him a prominent position on your first unit powerplay. He is the very poster child for a player whose scoring stats in real life look much better than they would in the ATD because no GM is actually crazy enough to give him the keys to the car.

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02-24-2011, 03:04 PM
  #984
Velociraptor
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
If you start at the last goalie that was drafted in the atd2011 , I quickly checked every goalie after that and the order is just really weird.
Yeah with 40 teams, reaches are much more common, I see where you're coming from, are you aware you are up?

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02-24-2011, 03:09 PM
  #985
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Yes I am aware.I just don't know what to do.Seems the 2 best goalies have something I really don't like about them , size and not winning the cup , I might take my 3rd choice , just thinking about it.

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02-24-2011, 03:10 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Yes I am aware.I just don't know what to do.Seems the 2 best goalies have something I really don't like about them , size and not winning the cup , I might take my 3rd choice , just thinking about it.
No one likes goalies.

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Old
02-24-2011, 03:22 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Taken.

Edit: By you Always put the "This is for a player I already took" tag for bios in this thread, I reckon.
Sorry about that, will do next time.

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02-24-2011, 03:38 PM
  #988
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Gordie "Doc" Roberts Bio

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02-24-2011, 03:45 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I wish more GMs would do this, rather than posting the full bio in this thread long after they drafted the player.

And sturm, Tkachuk was on my second PP unit last time. I wasn't exactly going to take Busher Jackson or Gordie Howe off the first unit.

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02-24-2011, 03:55 PM
  #990
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Montreal Canadiens are proud to finally select a pre-expansion player who have a nice mix of regular season and playoff success :

Goaltender Alec Connell


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02-24-2011, 03:57 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I wish more GMs would do this, rather than posting the full bio in this thread long after they drafted the player.

And sturm, Tkachuk was on my second PP unit last time. I wasn't exactly going to take Busher Jackson or Gordie Howe off the first unit.
I do it because it annoys me too.

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02-24-2011, 04:02 PM
  #992
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Detroit Riots listpick Reed Larson.

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02-24-2011, 04:05 PM
  #993
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Does anyone know if Connell had a number? Can't find one anywhere.

If not I will take the liberty of giving him number 1 , because a numberless jersey is ugly.

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02-24-2011, 04:07 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
And sturm, Tkachuk was on my second PP unit last time. I wasn't exactly going to take Busher Jackson or Gordie Howe off the first unit.
Yeah...I actually went back and checked. With what you had on the first unit powerplay, I can't imagine you giving your second unit more than 25-30% of the man advantage icetime, and if that's the case...well, I don't know how much credit the other GMs gave you for Keith's offense, but it was likely too much. He was basically just a grinder for you, which was ok I guess because you had a lot of other talent on that second line. Bugg would have to pull an enormous rabbit out of his hat at this point to end up with a second line where Tkachuk isn't expected to be a big part of the offense, and in theory he's already got Drillon filling the slot role on the first unit powerplay. He could bump Drillon, but that would torpedo most of his offensive value.

There may have been some teams in this thing that could have made good use of Tkachuk, but I don't think Bugg's team is one of them.

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02-24-2011, 04:19 PM
  #995
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Does anyone know if Connell had a number? Can't find one anywhere.

If not I will take the liberty of giving him number 1 , because a numberless jersey is ugly.
According to the Detroit Red Wings all-time numbers, he wore 1 with Detroit:
http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=44018

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02-24-2011, 04:33 PM
  #996
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According to the Detroit Red Wings all-time numbers, he wore 1 with Detroit:
http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=44018
thanks , already made him number 1 since it's the classic goalie number but now looks like it was truly his number.

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02-24-2011, 04:45 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I wish more GMs would do this, rather than posting the full bio in this thread long after they drafted the player.

And sturm, Tkachuk was on my second PP unit last time. I wasn't exactly going to take Busher Jackson or Gordie Howe off the first unit.
Tkachuk could have centred them.

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02-24-2011, 05:00 PM
  #998
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Time for someone to start a new thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
Considering that scoring usually drops when talent increases, and the ATD is quite a step up from NHL talent level, I would expect that unless you have a Bobby Clarke on you 2nd line type checking line, that nobody used in a checking role will net 50-60 points.

Here is a table comparing yearly average % of the league leaders in goals, assists and points. Walker is compared to the league leader, the others are compared to the 4th place finisher.

PlayerYearsGoalsAssistsPoints
Walker1628.8%44.6%36.6%
Gillies1443.8%38.0%43.5%
Duff1847.2%34.7%41.1%
Gainey1628.4%22.8%26.8%
Olmstead1441.8%74.0%63.6%

Note that Walker's NHA assist lead is capped at 100% by comparing to himself, and many of his other years will suffer from his being compared to Cyclone Taylor. Also his points % will be hurt by assists being awarded at less than 1 per goal during his career. His averages are further hurt by his playing only 1 game in 2 seasons. One he jumped to another league that isn't counted, and the other he went into military service during WWI.
Excellent chart; this is basically what I expected.

And you are right, no one's gonna get 60 points on the 3rd line here.... literally no one. Even if it's a scoring 3rd line.

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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Yeah...I actually went back and checked. With what you had on the first unit powerplay, I can't imagine you giving your second unit more than 25-30% of the man advantage icetime, and if that's the case...well, I don't know how much credit the other GMs gave you for Keith's offense, but it was likely too much. He was basically just a grinder for you,
that's a bit unfair. First of all, what's wrong with three top-10s in goals? Secondly, the years where he was top-10 in total goals but not in ES, his ES ranking would have been very close to 10th, certainly top-20. For a guy in the post-euro era, that is very solid no matter what angle you take the knife to it.

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