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Macarthur more valuable then Versteeg?

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:26 PM
  #51
Bill_Crosby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
Agreed, I think Burke is just using the media to aid in
negotiations with MacArthur. Mac has made it clear that he'd like to stay in Toronto, burke is throwing out a phony rumor...to make Mac sweat a little and maybe accept a lower price in order to stay.
So Dreger is a patsy, and Burke is lying? Now all we need is Doug Gilmour in the grassy knoll.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:30 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyguy1993 View Post
I would rather keep a young, relatively established player, over picks

Picks are ridiculously over rated.

Hopefully the 1st and/or 2nd would be as good as Mac, but doubtful.

Plus he has great chemistry with his line/team.
Hold on a second.... are you saying hopefully the first and second overall picks end up being as good as Clark Macarthur but you doubt it? Seriously? Because if so that's probably bar none the most stupid thing I've heard all day.

As for the thread title, I'd say Macarthurs value is near or a little higher than Versteegs. He has been having a hell of a year and that could be worth a lot to a contender looking to bulk up on goal scoring and depth.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:33 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyguy1993 View Post
I would rather keep a young, relatively established player, over picks

Picks are ridiculously over rated.

Hopefully the 1st and/or 2nd would be as good as Mac, but doubtful.

Plus he has great chemistry with his line/team.
I see you were probably talking about the first and second picks you would get in a trade for MacArthur, not the first and second overall hopefully being as good as him.

I apologize for misreading that.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:35 PM
  #54
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Leafs and MacArthur will work something out. I doubt he gets traded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Norris View Post
The Leafs had 9 picks in the 2008 draft and it looks like 8 busts and 1 high quality player(Schenn) from the draft. Drafts don't always work out.
lol

Funny to see how many of our 2008 picks were traded

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:36 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
Burke might as well pull the trigger since he's in rebuild mode now.

Sure the Leafs have a lot of late 1st round picks but the draft is suppose to be one of the weakest in recent memory. Dont start planning the parade just yet I woudnt be surprise one bit if Burke tries to move up at the draft...I dont see the leafs picking at 25+ two times.
I don't either I think he's building assets to make some big additions before next year either at the deadline or the draft

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
doesn't really matter if you have 5 picks in the top 60, 6 in the top 90 and 13 overall your lookin good no matter what.

Besides nobody really knows what those crop is like until they play in the NHL.
Consider anyone who had multiple picks in 1999, a team like the Islanders who had 4 1st rounders wound up with 4 marginal players. If this crop is indeed as weak as the 1999 group then in theory you could strike out with that many picks. To be fair Burke did have multiple picks in 1999, and he did 'alright'.

Either way, I think Burke is going to use them as a means to acquire further NHL talent and I doubt he ends up drafting 3 times in the 1st round this year. He's in a good position to flip those picks for players that will accelerate their "retool".

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:43 PM
  #57
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I don't mind trading CMac.

Yes, he has produced for us, but at best he will always be a second line player. I think we can all agree that Toronto has enough second line players to go around for a while.

If we could get a good prospect or a couple high picks for him, I would do it.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:55 PM
  #58
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"Macarthur more valuable THAN Versteeg?"

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:09 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby View Post
So Dreger is a patsy, and Burke is lying? Now all we need is Doug Gilmour in the grassy knoll.
Darren Dreger is the cousin of David Nonis.


Many consider Dreger an extended member of the Maple Leafs front office. He is a shill.

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02-24-2011, 09:11 PM
  #60
Chandrashekhar Limit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Hold on a second.... are you saying hopefully the first and second overall picks end up being as good as Clark Macarthur but you doubt it? Seriously? Because if so that's probably bar none the most stupid thing I've heard all day.

As for the thread title, I'd say Macarthurs value is near or a little higher than Versteegs. He has been having a hell of a year and that could be worth a lot to a contender looking to bulk up on goal scoring and depth.


Sad attempt at trolling. Any1 with a brain can tell he's talking about the 1st or 2nd round pick.

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:18 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrikSedinFan View Post
Darren Dreger is the cousin of David Nonis.


Many consider Dreger an extended member of the Maple Leafs front office. He is a shill.
Oh come on, this is getting ridiculous. He's nothing of the sort.

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:22 PM
  #62
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I wouldn't be suprised if the team offering up a 1st for Mac was Vancouver. They're the kind of team that would place a very high value on getting a player who has a very small cap hit to possibly play alongside Ryan Kesler or give them some more offensive depth.

First rounders sound great -- but when you're talking about picks in a weak draft and belonging to 3 out of the 4 (arguably) best teams in the league, it's problably better off that they keep MacArthur.

One thing to consider about this though -- this could all be posturing by Burke & Co. He wants to sign MacArthur, MacArthur obviously wants to stay, but if he's turning down 1sts + 2nds, then Mac has to give him one heck of a deal so that he doesn't get traded.

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:23 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Norris View Post
The Leafs had 9 picks in the 2008 draft and it looks like 86 bust, and three of them were traded for other assets, 1 good prospect and 1 high quality player(Schenn) from the draft. Drafts don't always work out.
Fixed.

Leafs had 8 draft picks that year, no?

Andrew MacWilliam will make a good fight for the NHL. One of our more underrated prospects atm.

Hayes got us Brad Ross...
Stefanovich got us a good AHLer in Brunnstrom
Pattyrn(sp) helped us get Grabovski

Joel Champagne, Grant Rollheiser and Jerome Flaake aren't looking great though

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:25 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Oh come on, this is getting ridiculous. He's nothing of the sort.
No he very much is. He gets so much info from the Leafs and he puts it out there. Where does this info come from? the Leafs gm Burke or cousin Dave. Dreger ALWAYS has something to say about everything concerning the Leafs or players they may be looking at.

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:44 PM
  #65
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C-Mac has been a very pleasant surprise but if he wants more than 1 year and over 2.5 million on his contract I just don`t see him being in the Leafs plans.

Looking towards making the Leafs a contender they need to address there forward needs. The two biggest being a big net presence who can play on the top 2 lines winger and a top 2 line center (preferably number 1 center).

For addressing the big net presence C-Mac will probably be the odd man out because Kessel and Kulemin are far more valuable than him. Lupul is unmovable with his contract and actually has higher upside.

Even if we can`t get that big net presence by next season C-Mac may also not fit into the plans because Colborne and Kadri could be challenging him for that spot.
So there is a good chance C-Mac becomes a third line option. Except he really isn`t built to be a checker and would also be very expensive in that role.

Plus there is UFA options to replace him with that will get around 3 million like Ryder, Williams, Cole, Leino. You can make a case that C-Mac is more valuable than any of these guys but not a 1st and 2nd rounder much better if that is available in a trade.

We would be selling C-Mac at probably the highest value he will ever have and gaining draft picks which will only increase in value after the deadline which Burke can use to draft players or most likely trade for a high end center.


Last edited by Ricky Bobby: 02-24-2011 at 10:06 PM.
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Old
02-24-2011, 10:01 PM
  #66
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If it's true that Toronto could get a first - let alone a 2nd or a 3rd as well, I assume they'll pull the trigger without hesitation.

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Old
02-24-2011, 10:03 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrikSedinFan View Post
No he very much is. He gets so much info from the Leafs and he puts it out there. Where does this info come from? the Leafs gm Burke or cousin Dave. Dreger ALWAYS has something to say about everything concerning the Leafs or players they may be looking at.
Burke is also one of the most active GMs in regards to trades and regularly uses the media to attempt to drive up the value of his players by letting teams know what is going on and trying to create bidding wars.

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Old
02-24-2011, 10:31 PM
  #68
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
C-Mac has been a very pleasant surprise but if he wants more than 1 year and over 2.5 million on his contract I just don`t see him being in the Leafs plans.

Looking towards making the Leafs a contender they need to address there forward needs. The two biggest being a big net presence who can play on the top 2 lines winger and a top 2 line center (preferably number 1 center).

For addressing the big net presence C-Mac will probably be the odd man out because Kessel and Kulemin are far more valuable than him. Lupul is unmovable with his contract and actually has higher upside.

Even if we can`t get that big net presence by next season C-Mac may also not fit into the plans because Colborne and Kadri could be challenging him for that spot.
So there is a good chance C-Mac becomes a third line option. Except he really isn`t built to be a checker and would also be very expensive in that role.

Plus there is UFA options to replace him with that will get around 3 million like Ryder, Williams, Cole, Leino. You can make a case that C-Mac is more valuable than any of these guys but not a 1st and 2nd rounder much better if that is available in a trade.

We would be selling C-Mac at probably the highest value he will ever have and gaining draft picks which will only increase in value after the deadline which Burke can use to draft players or most likely trade for a high end center.
There's something that you have to consider -- at $2.25m, you can problably afford to stick Joffery Lupul on the 3rd line and get somewhat of an offensive catalyst there. At $3m, you may not be able to do that, which is where you have to consider whether or not it's in your best interest to part with a 26 year old player who is your leading point-getter.

The whole "selling while his value is high" notion is also extremely overplayed on these boards. Every player is fairly valued at all times, it's only the value to his team that changes. For MacArthur, he's valued based on the fact that he's only had 1 good year, so his value would go up with a repeat performance, or down with a bad year. The big thing that may make his value higher to other teams is his cap hit for this year, which really isn't all that relevant to Toronto down the stretch. They've got enough cap space to make practically any addition they want.

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Old
02-24-2011, 10:52 PM
  #69
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Mcarthur is worth more than Versteeg. He's having a better season than Versteeg and is very underpaid, whereas Versteeg was arguably overpaid.

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02-24-2011, 10:52 PM
  #70
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If only those draft picks were for the past couple of years of strong draft classes or even next year.

The Leafs just have bad luck but hey, here's to seeing them pull a couple of gems out the class?

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Old
02-24-2011, 10:54 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
If only those draft picks were for the past couple of years of strong draft classes or even next year.

The Leafs just have bad luck but hey, here's to seeing them pull a couple of gems out the class?
Why is it that everyone was arguing with Leaf fans about how it wasn't a bad draft year until Burke acquired two first rounders?

I agree it's not a strong draft year but I had so many people disagree with me until Burke got two firsts.

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Old
02-24-2011, 11:02 PM
  #72
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Not surprising. He's a gun and has a wicked shot.

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Old
02-24-2011, 11:03 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Chill View Post
Don't be fooled. Anyone who thinks MacArthur is worth anything more than a 1st....
Versteeg only will get a 2nd...

Beauch wont even get a 7th...

Kaberle? Wheeler and 2nd MAAAAX...


lol I love reading peoples comments because it just shows that they know jack ****

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Old
02-24-2011, 11:04 PM
  #74
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
There's something that you have to consider -- at $2.25m, you can problably afford to stick Joffery Lupul on the 3rd line and get somewhat of an offensive catalyst there. At $3m, you may not be able to do that, which is where you have to consider whether or not it's in your best interest to part with a 26 year old player who is your leading point-getter.

The whole "selling while his value is high" notion is also extremely overplayed on these boards. Every player is fairly valued at all times, it's only the value to his team that changes. For MacArthur, he's valued based on the fact that he's only had 1 good year, so his value would go up with a repeat performance, or down with a bad year. The big thing that may make his value higher to other teams is his cap hit for this year, which really isn't all that relevant to Toronto down the stretch. They've got enough cap space to make practically any addition they want.
This whole leading point getter thing is getting out of hand.

If Kessel had a decent center or even someone like Lupul (basically anybody but 4th line/ahl guys like Crabb, Caputi) on his wing most of the year he would have far more points than C-Mac. But he hasn't and Kessel has basically been an island of a player because he couldn't trust his linemates (at least until Lupul came in) to help him in anyway (feeds, opening space, etc.)

C-Mac also only has a few more points than his linemates Kulemin and Grabo. But out of those 3 C-Mac is the least valuable player moving forward for this team.

They would be selling C-Mac at a high point because the competition to get into the playoffs is fierce this year and most of his cap hit is already gone. If he is willing to take a hometown discount then by all means I'm for Burke keeping him but if he wants UFA type money then Burke should trade him. Get the assets from the trade then actually go sign a UFA to take his place. I would consider it a very proactive trade for Burke instead of a reactive one which he'd probably need to do late next year when C-Mac wouldn't really have a proper place as this team gets closer to being a good team.

But overall I think me and you are actually agree on the same basic concept.

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Old
02-24-2011, 11:10 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by The Big Chill View Post
Don't be fooled. Anyone who thinks MacArthur is worth anything more than a 1st....
How many times can people be proven wrong? Beauchemin, Versteeg and Kaberle all returned much more than anyone thought they would.

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