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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix XXII: It's Now or Never

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Old
02-25-2011, 12:15 AM
  #326
Dado
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
There ya go with the Voltaire again...
Not my fault. Had poutine for lunch. And poutine always reminds me of Voltaire.

 
Old
02-25-2011, 12:20 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
In Manitoba hearing the voice of Riel is considered, by some to be of a naturally occurring phenomona.
Sure enough, Ive heard the same from me buddies at Shannons who avoid the Cemetary Gates at St. Boniface Cathedral like the Plague; takin the long way home after a night of draughts or dominos, nervously whistlin that little ditty by Roger Hodgson into the cold black night of eternity.....


Last edited by Killion: 02-25-2011 at 12:25 AM.
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02-25-2011, 12:30 AM
  #328
davemac1313
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Here we go...sumptin

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ds0224-ON.html

those cog dudes....always pokin that stick....sometimes thats what gets ya stung though

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02-25-2011, 12:31 AM
  #329
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http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/0224...toagencies.pdf

retort you say

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02-25-2011, 12:34 AM
  #330
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hmmm...sooooo

The bonds have not yet been offered.

still himming and hawwing about going all in, with fingers crossed looking for an in between straight off the river, from the looks of things

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02-25-2011, 12:41 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by davemac1313 View Post
Here we go...sumptin

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ds0224-ON.html

those cog dudes....always pokin that stick....sometimes thats what gets ya stung though
And perhaps the GWI should say "we can't promise not to sue until you turn over all the documents requested under the Freedom of Information" request.

It seems like GWI would not have to sue to stop the issuance of bonds and to stop the deal. All they would have to say is that they intend to sue to stop this. Incredible that Glendale would leave such an open option for the GWI. At this point, why would the GWI have to commit itself? Because the COG wants a scapegoat? The GWI could just run out the clock here it seems, telling the COG that they are studying the matter and will come to a conclusion about their legal strategy "imminently".

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02-25-2011, 12:42 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Not my fault. Had poutine for lunch. And poutine always reminds me of Voltaire.
Hope not, or were all in trouble...

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02-25-2011, 12:50 AM
  #333
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Goldwater attorney Carrie Ann Sitren said an attorney retained by Glendale, Jordan Rose, told Goldwater on Thursday that the NHL would walk away from the Glendale deal unless Goldwater agreed not to sue.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...#ixzz1EwysJ3zm


what the hell is imminent anyway?? Is it the same as "in perpetuity" business that has bored me to tears for days?? Seems like this whole mess will be solved in perpetuity.....

per·pe·tu·i·ty (pūrp-t-t, -ty-)
n. pl. per·pe·tu·i·ties
1. The quality or condition of being perpetual: "The perpetuity of the Church was an article of faith" (Morris L. West).My head is spinning around and around
2. Time without end; eternity. Yep
3. Law Depends which HF lawyer I believe
a. The condition of an estate that is limited so as to be inalienable either perpetually or longer than the period determined by law. Not sure what this means but appears to be applicaable
b. An estate so limited. My current patience with this whole thing
4. An annuity payable indefinitely. This covers arena mangement fees

im·mi·nent (m-nnt)
adj.
About to occur; impending: in imminent danger.appears to be the state of the deal...in imminent danger

Got it...all the legal speak going on was unnecessary...This deal is in imminent perpetuity....unless Gary says otherwise, or my new girlfriend Carrie Anne decides that Beasley is a worthy dance partner...my gawd already

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02-25-2011, 12:54 AM
  #334
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From the article:

Quote:
Goldwater attorney Carrie Ann Sitren said an attorney retained by Glendale, Jordan Rose, told Goldwater on Thursday that the NHL would walk away from the Glendale deal unless Goldwater agreed not to sue.

...

Sitren said the group's timeline would not be swayed by outside pressure but a decision could be made within a few days.
Sounds like this saga really is finally coming to a close.

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02-25-2011, 12:59 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Currently the NHL owns those rights.

Those rights were not granted by the AMULA.

They were granted to Ellman (and later assumed by Moyes) under the Westgate MUDA and parking agreements. Those contracts were assumed from Moyes estate by the NHL when they bought the team in bankruptcy.
Okie dokie...so if the NHL owns the rights to the parking....why is the CoG paying a ridiculous amount for them in the form of an arena lease with Hulsizer?

Shouldn't that be part of the sale of the franchise and not part of the arena lease??

Unless the NHL only owns those rights because they currently have a temporary lease with Glendale for the arena and the parking rights are included. In which case, again....the rights would be a negotiated item. Glendale would have the rights in their possession and be able to reach an agreement (within the arena lease) to give those rights to a new owner.

The only other alternative is that even with a sale the rights remain those of the NHL, the current holder of them, to sell.

Where am I going wrong here?

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02-25-2011, 01:00 AM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
From the article:



Sounds like this saga really is finally coming to a close.
Freakin Twilight Zone,,,betcha I could find that exact quote more than 100 times in these Phoenix threads

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02-25-2011, 01:01 AM
  #337
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"The bonds have not yet been offered."

Good god.

What the **** are these people doing?

 
Old
02-25-2011, 01:05 AM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
Okie dokie...so if the NHL owns the rights to the parking....why is the CoG paying a ridiculous amount for them in the form of an arena lease with Hulsizer?

Shouldn't that be part of the sale of the franchise and not part of the arena lease??

Unless the NHL only owns those rights because they currently have a temporary lease with Glendale for the arena and the parking rights are included. In which case, again....the rights would be a negotiated item. Glendale would have the rights in their possession and be able to reach an agreement (within the arena lease) to give those rights to a new owner.

The only other alternative is that even with a sale the rights remain those of the NHL, the current holder of them, to sell.

Where am I going wrong here?
Your on the same track as GWI according to the letter...so your legal opinion is on one side...the differing opinion is the COG side...Both think the other side is wrong.....need Judge Baum....or with the history of this saga....Judge Judy would probably present the best legal opinion.....who knows anymore...keep sitting around waiting for the other to play and before you know it.....they will both be arguing over who spilt the milk...and I'll be buyin season tickets....I say they should both hold out imminently and in perpetuity.

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02-25-2011, 01:10 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by davemac1313 View Post
hmmm...sooooo

The bonds have not yet been offered.

still himming and hawwing about going all in, with fingers crossed looking for an in between straight off the river, from the looks of things
To me this delay means this has happened.....

CoG: How is this?
GWI: Nope, we'll sue.
CoG: Ok, we changed it a bit, howsabout now?
GWI: Nope.
CoG: Dagnabbit! Ok...we tweaked a few things...what about this?
GWI: Well..no!
Hulsizer: I gotsta get paid!
CoG: Ugghhh...we moved some punctuation around....good now?
GWI: Stop wasting our time.....no.
NHL: What on earth is taking so long?!?
CoG: Uhh...hey...you got any pull with GWI?
NHL: No.
CoG: Crap...we mean...umm....just sit tight for a bit.
GWI: A bit?
CoG: So....how can we give this guy more than the value of the arena just so he buys the team that is valued at less than what we are giving him?
GWI: You can't.
CoG: Ok....we need some more time to tweak this a bit.
GWI: No...err..wait. Ok, take your time. Sorry, got so used to rejecting your ridiculous offers...it was just instinct. No offense.
CoG: None taken.

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02-25-2011, 01:16 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by davemac1313 View Post
Freakin Twilight Zone,,,betcha I could find that exact quote more than 100 times in these Phoenix threads
I think it's important because it's the first time we've been told that the NHL will not keep the team in Glendale if GWI files a lawsuit.

And based on the statements and actions by GWI to this point, I have no reason to believe that they won't file a lawsuit.

IMO, it's time to play the blame game in Glendale..

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02-25-2011, 01:20 AM
  #341
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And perhaps the GWI should say "we can't promise not to sue until you turn over all the documents requested under the Freedom of Information" request.
The letter to Moodys' et al is dated January 31st Whileee, which wouldve' been contemporaneous with the draft prospectus we got a peek at at that time that included the "threat of litigation" warning. They thereafter submerged, running silent, running deep.....And so here we are with todays article. What I dont get is what the Sam Peckinpah is Carrie Anne doing "waiting for a consultants report who had to revise his/her/its figures when the COG revised its parking guesstimates in January before deciding if we'll proceed with a suit"?. Now she's obfuscating. The Hocking/Walker/BCRE figures have been out long enough for a Grade 12 math brat to breakdown, in an afternoon. Im certain the Bonds are in play & already out there. Sure of it. Yet here we have conflicting statements; Dalys munificence & now this new player Rose contradicting both Daly & Sitren out of both sides of his mouth; saying nothing thats straight & down the middle. This is gettin real hairy & just plain crazy.

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02-25-2011, 01:23 AM
  #342
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Breaking news: Glendale pressuring group to decide on Coyotes lawsuit

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ds0224-ON.html

Quote:
Glendale is under intense pressure by the National Hockey League to complete bond financing within days for its deal with the Phoenix Coyotes or risk losing the team, according to watchdog group, the Goldwater Institute.

The city, in turn, is demanding an answer from Goldwater about whether it intends to sue to block the deal.

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02-25-2011, 01:24 AM
  #343
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Of course the lawyer who drafted the deal for the COG says its bullet proof.....soooooo COG whats the holdup...don't trust the lawyer?

Probably each of you who voted for this deal, don't believe it's bulletproof......maybe Beasley can just talk in circles to GWI and not answer a simple question with a simple answer, as he does so well, and they will walk away.

I smell another council meeting brewing.....to let Beasley continue doing what he is doing......until the NHL pulls the plug and the COG can blame GWI

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02-25-2011, 01:25 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
Okie dokie...so if the NHL owns the rights to the parking....why is the CoG paying a ridiculous amount for them in the form of an arena lease with Hulsizer?

Shouldn't that be part of the sale of the franchise and not part of the arena lease??

Unless the NHL only owns those rights because they currently have a temporary lease with Glendale for the arena and the parking rights are included. In which case, again....the rights would be a negotiated item. Glendale would have the rights in their possession and be able to reach an agreement (within the arena lease) to give those rights to a new owner.

The only other alternative is that even with a sale the rights remain those of the NHL, the current holder of them, to sell.

Where am I going wrong here?
Read Post #36 on page 2 of this thread. The answers to your questions are in there.

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02-25-2011, 01:30 AM
  #345
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Hey K - I too have high confidence the bonds are at least "sort of" for sale - seen 'em on offer. But I don't personally know anybody who bought any so at this point I'm unable to be certain that they're *actually* for sale.

 
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02-25-2011, 01:31 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I think it's important because it's the first time we've been told that the NHL will not keep the team in Glendale if GWI files a lawsuit.

And based on the statements and actions by GWI to this point, I have no reason to believe that they won't file a lawsuit.

IMO, it's time to play the blame game in Glendale..
Actually, it's a bit more dire than that, and tilted in the GWI's favor. According to the article the deal will fall through unless the GWI agrees not to sue. The implication is that even if the GWI simply refuses to agree not to sue, the deal falls through without them taking the trouble of filing suit.

It is interesting to speculate why they want this stipulation from the GWI. The most obvious reason is that investors have showed insufficient interest in the bond issue with this legal uncertainty hanging around. But I wonder whether this might also have a political dimension. I have speculated for several weeks that the COG and its city council and administration are very reluctant to see this go to court, lest that force the disclosure of some rather unflattering processes in the negotiations, etc. That would bring the political risks into sharper focus.

Whatever the reason, it would seem that the fate of the deal does indeed rest with the GWI and their political will to scuttle the deal. I had an inkling that this might come down to politics. The unnerving aspect for the COG and the NHL is that the GWI could just remain somewhat uncommitted on this, saying that they are reserving their right to sue, or even indicating that they will take a decision if a citizen or group of citizens emerges and asks them to intervene.

Interesting that this came out at 11 pm on Friday evening, by the way.

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02-25-2011, 01:34 AM
  #347
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Hey K - I too have high confidence the bonds are at least "sort of" for sale - seen 'em on offer. But I don't personally know anybody who bought any so at this point I'm unable to be certain that they're *actually* for sale.
Glendale this month promised investors a higher interest rate would compensate for additional risk, according to a preliminary description of the bonds circulated among investors that a Valley investor provided The Republic.

To me this said no nibbles, get better bait and yet it seems that still no fish....

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02-25-2011, 01:35 AM
  #348
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were there major changes to the revised parking reports?
from what i remember the walker revised report had a similar outlook and stated that 70 million is what the parking rights were worth (based on 6% interest)...and i think there was an additional report done and used to replace the bogus hocking report.
if this is the case, i fully expect gwi to release a statement in a few days that they will pursue a lawsuit....and the nhl will have no choice but to pull the plug and CoG can shift the blame to goldwater both in the short term (its their fault the team moved) and longterm (we cant make arena bond payments because we lost our main tenant)

i fully expect a speech from the mayor saying 'we did everything in our power to save the coyotes..there was nothing we could do..it was out of our control)

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02-25-2011, 01:36 AM
  #349
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"waiting for a consultants report who had to revise his/her/its figures when the COG revised its parking guesstimates in January before deciding if we'll proceed with a suit"?
that was interesting to me also, seems like they are trying ridiculously hard to make this look like a violation of the gift.

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02-25-2011, 01:36 AM
  #350
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Interesting that this came out at 11 pm on Friday evening, by the way.
Agree with all...but it's only Thursday....do you have an inkling for Friday night too??

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