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NYR and Dallas

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:24 PM
  #26
Chaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
How is it not relevant?

He SEVERELY overpaid for Goligoski, he has no clue of how value works. That's one of the worst trades I've seen in quite some time at this point.

Neal for Goligoski straight up would have been a fair trade.
But thats what the trade was. Plus the Stars got to dump Niskanen and his salary for next year. Yeah, they are really going to miss Niskanen's 6 points, terrible defense, and constant turnovers. Try to at least know what you are talking about the next time you try and judge a trade.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:31 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
He's still young and has potential. He's regressed a bit,
A bit? He's regressed into oblivion. He's playing at a Gilroy-level. Constant turnovers, soft, weak play, and not putting up offense for a supposed offensive defenseman.

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if you think Alex Goligoski (not that impressive in Pittsburgh playing with that team) is more valuable than a guy that's score 20 goals in each of his first 2 seasons in the NHL, and nearly scored 30 last year, then I don't know what to tell you.
Not impressive? He's in his 2nd full year and on pace for 40+ points. You can make the argument that he played on a powerplay with Crosby, but it's moot, because their powerplay was awful. He was a BIG part of what the Penguins could muster up on the powerplay. Hes a very good young player, and extremely underrated due to the fact that he plays in Pittsburgh. Yeah, he has his deficiencies, but so does Neal.

At least Goligoski is useful when he's not scoring, unlike Neal. He's a lot like Wolski. Will show up for a week, rip things up, then disappear for a week and a half, and be relatively useless in that time. He's at his best when he's agressive and driving the net, but he has worrisome effort issues that could prevent him from ever taking the next step.

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Honestly, I would have wanted more than Goligoski back for Neal. Neal has 35-40 goal potential. Goligoski pans out to a very good #3 at best.
40 goals for Neal? I don't see it. I see a 30 goal scorer that hits 35 once or twice. Let's not forget he was playing with Brad Richards and Loui Eriksson, not some scrubs.

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Old
02-25-2011, 12:15 AM
  #28
CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
But thats what the trade was. Plus the Stars got to dump Niskanen and his salary for next year. Yeah, they are really going to miss Niskanen's 6 points, terrible defense, and constant turnovers. Try to at least know what you are talking about the next time you try and judge a trade.
Do yourself a favor and learn how to play hockey, specifically defense, a position that I've been playing practially longer than you've been alive.

1. I never said Niskanen is having a great year, or has been exceptional, by any standard. I've even said he's regressed a bit.

2. I said he's young, and still has potential, how are you going to argue that? Dallas fans were all over the kid's jock in his first couple of seasons.

3. It's amazing how one bad year turns a player into complete dog ****. Talk about a "what have you done lately for me?" kind of world.

Niskanen's one on one defense isn't the part where he needs improvement, it's positional play, which has mostly to do with A. Defensive Partners and B. Coaching and Systems. When changes in coaching occur, I think it's safe to say about 85% of the time, the system changes, as long as it's not a mid-season change.

Going from Tippett, who is a far more defensive minded coach to Marc Crawford is almost like a culture shock. Sure he's had a year to adjust, and I'm not sticking up for him by any means, but different players respond differently in different roles in different systems. Niskanen is a clear cut example of this. As was Marc Staal when John Tortarella first took over the Rangers. Staal is only now adjusting offensively from the Tom Renney "no offense from defenders" regime.

Maybe you should think before you judge a trade the next time. I'll put good money on the fact that I've seen a lot more of all three teams discussed here (NYR, Pitt, and Dallas) than you have.

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Old
02-25-2011, 12:27 AM
  #29
Chaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Do yourself a favor and learn how to play hockey
Congratulations. Do you want a cookie?


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, specifically defense, a position that I've been playing practially longer than you've been alive.
Coming from a guy a year younger than me......

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1. I never said Niskanen is having a great year, or has been exceptional, by any standard. I've even said he's regressed a bit.
You said:

Quote:
How is it not relevant?

He SEVERELY overpaid for Goligoski, he has no clue of how value works. That's one of the worst trades I've seen in quite some time at this point.

Neal for Goligoski straight up would have been a fair trade.
You are saying that by adding Niskanen, who has been one of the worst defensemen in the league the past 2 seasons to the trade, Nieuwendyk severely overpaid for Goligoski. Really?

Quote:
2. I said he's young, and still has potential, how are you going to argue that? Dallas fans were all over the kid's jock in his first couple of seasons.
Sure, he's young, and has some upside still. Doesnt change the fact that he has been absolutely awful for 2 years.

Quote:
3. It's amazing how one bad year turns a player into complete dog ****. Talk about a "what have you done lately for me?" kind of world.
Two atrocious years will do that.

Quote:
Maybe you should think before you judge a trade the next time. I'll put good money on the fact that I've seen a lot more of all three teams discussed here (NYR, Pitt, and Dallas) than you have.
Congratulatons, you've seen more Pittsburgh and NYR games than I have. But Niskanen hasnt played for either of those teams up until now. He's played for the Dallas Stars, of which I've seen nearly every game the past several seasons. Thanks for playing though.


Last edited by Chaos: 02-25-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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Old
02-25-2011, 12:29 AM
  #30
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Stepan will not be moved they would be dumb to do so, enough with the Richards threads Dallas is not trading him

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Old
02-25-2011, 01:04 AM
  #31
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those probably should have stayed in ur head.

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Old
02-25-2011, 01:13 AM
  #32
JeffMangum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Congratulatons, you've seen more Pittsburgh and NYR games than I have. But Niskanen hasnt played for either of those teams up until now. He's played for the Dallas Stars, of which I've seen nearly every game the past several seasons. Thanks for playing though.
Burn.

I hate that "I've watched more ** than you have" arguments. It means nothing.

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Old
02-25-2011, 09:00 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
He's still young and has potential. He's regressed a bit, if you think Alex Goligoski (not that impressive in Pittsburgh playing with that team) is more valuable than a guy that's score 20 goals in each of his first 2 seasons in the NHL, and nearly scored 30 last year, then I don't know what to tell you.

Honestly, I would have wanted more than Goligoski back for Neal. Neal has 35-40 goal potential. Goligoski pans out to a very good #3 at best.
Regressed a bit? He has gone from 35 points in 08/89, to 15 points in 09/10 to 6 points this season. How do you figure that is "regressing a bit"? That would be considered a nose dive of epic proportions. The trade came down to Neal for Goligoski and it addressed needs for both Dallas and Pittsburgh plain an simple.

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Old
02-25-2011, 10:26 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
Ok heres a trade I fathomed up in my head:

New York Rangers Trade:

Stepan
Grachev
Thomas
Rangers First Round Pick in 2011
Washingtons Second Round Pick in 2011

Dallas Stars Trade:

(Signed) Richards



Or:

NYR Trades:

Grachev
Stepan
Rangers 1st in '11
Rangers 2nd in '11
Washington's 2nd in '11


Dallas Stars Trade:

(signed) Richards


Speculate
no thanks.
way beyond way too much, even acknowledging you specify not a rental

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Old
02-25-2011, 10:54 AM
  #35
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If I decided to post every wacky idea I had I would be LONG BANNED from these boards.

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Old
02-25-2011, 11:05 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
If I decided to post every wacky idea I had I would be LONG BANNED from these boards.
Seriously....i know this is a board for proposals but cant we have rule that they have to be somewhat realistic

I mean otherwise

Crosby

for

Anisimov
Christensen
Grachev
Gilroy
2nd

Anyone

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Old
02-25-2011, 12:56 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Seriously....i know this is a board for proposals but cant we have rule that they have to be somewhat realistic

I mean otherwise

Crosby

for

Anisimov
Christensen
Grachev
Gilroy
2nd

Anyone
Grachev's potential = Pens need to add some pics, preferably numerous 1st rounders. On top of that Crosby kid.

True story.


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Old
02-25-2011, 02:59 PM
  #38
Shady12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
He's still young and has potential. He's regressed a bit, if you think Alex Goligoski (not that impressive in Pittsburgh playing with that team) is more valuable than a guy that's score 20 goals in each of his first 2 seasons in the NHL, and nearly scored 30 last year, then I don't know what to tell you.

Honestly, I would have wanted more than Goligoski back for Neal. Neal has 35-40 goal potential. Goligoski pans out to a very good #3 at best.
Neal realistically is a guy who will average 30 goals, 50-60 points a season, be inconsistent, and be an offense only guy.

Goligoski is a guy who can be a 10-15 goal, 40-50 point defenseman. Ten goals a year might be selling him short, he's on pace for 12 in his second season. He's not big and he'll probably never be better than average defensively.

But Neal isn't a complete player either. They both have limitations outside of their particular expertise. Good trade. Especially with Dallas being able to dump Niskanen and his salary. Even if he does somehow turn into a serviceable NHL player, it wasn't going to happen in Dallas.

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