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Macarther for a 1st and 2nd??

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Old
02-25-2011, 11:51 AM
  #176
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post
With Kadri and Colborne in the system, Turris doesn't add anything we don't already have in terms of forward prospects. In fact, Kadri has shown far more at a younger age.

That's a backward move if I've ever seen one. Of course, you'd be the first to complain that the Leafs weren't winning yet when Turris continues to fail to meet expectations. Joe Sakic my patoootey.
Just for arguements sake, lets say LA and Pho are the teams interested in Mac.

LAs 2011 1rst and 2nd or Turris .

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02-25-2011, 11:57 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Mess as far as i'm concerned big Mac is a UFA.

Here me out, he has already shown the guts to go to Arb once.

Arbs are way out of touch with the new NHL landscape, hell look what he got awarded last year.

The chances of someone counter offering on Mac is next to nill.

I say sign him by TDD or at the very least BB has an assurance that they are close enough but just need to haggle a bit more out, nothing that is make it or break it.

Or you trade him by 3pm Monday.
So many things wrong here. Not surprising, really.

1. He elected arbitration because that's what you do when a team doesn't qualify you. It profits you to do so. It wasn't out of spite. He's said he wants to play in Toronto and his salary demands are well within reason.

2. He didn't get awarded what he was awarded because the Arbitrator was out of touch, but because Atlanta didn't table a counter offer, so MacArthur's bid was accepted.

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02-25-2011, 12:08 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post
So many things wrong here. Not surprising, really.

1. He elected arbitration because that's what you do when a team doesn't qualify you. It profits you to do so. It wasn't out of spite. He's said he wants to play in Toronto and his salary demands are well within reason.

2. He didn't get awarded what he was awarded because the Arbitrator was out of touch, but because Atlanta didn't table a counter offer, so MacArthur's bid was accepted.
IIRC he was qualified.

I took into account what Mac and his against though of his Arb worth, one must believe if it goes to Arb it will be a hell of a lot higher this time around.

I used the Arb settlement to point out what Macs camp wanted last year with far lower #s.

If he goes to Arb and wins , my gut tells me BB walks.

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02-25-2011, 12:24 PM
  #179
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Using a player to move up in the draft, before draft positions have been set is ludicrous. If LA wins a couple rounds of the polayoffs, you haven't moved up.

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02-25-2011, 12:25 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post
It would depend on the return. A few picks probably wouldn't excite me too much, depending on their quality, of course. A young player able to step in soon with the potential to meet or exceed General's production within a season or so; that'd be a different story. But I don't see why a team would make a move to get older to add that element unless they really see him as the piece that would make them a contender this year or next.

I certainly wouldn't make it a priority. He's said he wants to sign here. All reports suggest that his demands aren't outrageous, and that he and Burke are well withing spitting distance of each other on salary.

You can't be perpetually selling everything/everyone, especially a guy who has shown good chemistry and motivation to improve on this club. He adds some grit and fire to the lineup, too which is a valuable thing from a top-6 guy.
I agree with you but there's also something to consider that everybody seems to forget in that the Leafs do have prospects that are close to being full time Leafs 2 of wich I think personally have a higher upside to what McCarthur provides as a player and would be cheaper on the cap 1 who's on the Marly's and the other in NCAA.

Lets be honest here with MaCarthur the chemistry on that line is between Grabo and Kulemin they're the 2 who make that line work, MaCarthur is playing off them and is reaping the reward because of that, it's why Burke is in a tough spot with Mac signing him to a 3 year deal would effectively be a road block on roster space to those prospects who do have a higher upside and it's something that weighs in Burke's decision.

MaCarthur is going to have to sign a deal where he stays trade-able as an asset because he could be past in the depth chart as soon as next years camp from young players developing.

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02-25-2011, 12:31 PM
  #181
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Be very surprised if he's traded unless he's part of a package. Can't see how he'll be traded for picks alone.

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02-25-2011, 02:26 PM
  #182
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Using a player to move up in the draft, before draft positions have been set is ludicrous. If LA wins a couple rounds of the polayoffs, you haven't moved up.

---
No it's not.
you just have to think outside the box.

C-Mac is not worth a 1st rounder.. (maybe a very high one for a team that wants to overpay.)
All Burke can probably get is a 2nd rounder. He is a journeyman forward folks.
get a grip.

AS is said, if the leafs don't move up at least 10 spots, they get a 2nd rounder... which is probably C-Mac's true relative value.

Mike Fisher went for a 1st... C-Mac is no Fisher.

people... stop being so delusional as to what this guy can fetch

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02-25-2011, 02:29 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by daniwat View Post
sorry guys not sure if this is posted yet but just as per dreger on tsn.

thoughts??
Darren Dreger is stupid. That's the only thought that comes to mind. Why not yours?

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02-25-2011, 02:38 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Burke needs me View Post
No it's not.
you just have to think outside the box.

C-Mac is not worth a 1st rounder.. (maybe a very high one for a team that wants to overpay.)
All Burke can probably get is a 2nd rounder. He is a journeyman forward folks.
get a grip.

AS is said, if the leafs don't move up at least 10 spots, they get a 2nd rounder... which is probably C-Mac's true relative value.

Mike Fisher went for a 1st... C-Mac is no Fisher.

people... stop being so delusional as to what this guy can fetch
What is delusional is you trying to convince me that Philly's 1st round pick will be 10 lower than LA's, when the playoffs haven't been played yet.

If LA's pick is better than Philly's, LA get MacA and a better 1st rounder for a 2nd round pick.

Also of note, you can't give players a NTC until their UFA year, so MacA isn't eligable yet.


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02-25-2011, 04:29 PM
  #185
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Too bad Buffalo already had MacArthur would be nice to try an add a prospect like Kassian while his value is up, not saying they're equal value but we've added some nice pieces lately and he would be a great addition for the future along with Colborne

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02-25-2011, 04:35 PM
  #186
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I don't know why people seem dead set on ripping this whole team down. Mac is a huge part of this team atm. He's young enough to be in the long term plans and he could be the next Martin St.Louis type player. Or it could be one of those fluke years, either way I think he's more valuable to Toronto then a late 1st and a late 2nd if that indeed is what is being offered. I would like to see us keep him we're only 4 points out guys still quite a bit of hockey left so to trade him now imo would be a slap in the face to the fans.

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02-25-2011, 04:44 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Burke needs me View Post
Using a player to move up in the draft, before draft positions have been set is ludicrous. If LA wins a couple rounds of the polayoffs, you haven't moved up.

---
No it's not.
you just have to think outside the box.

C-Mac is not worth a 1st rounder.. (maybe a very high one for a team that wants to overpay.)
All Burke can probably get is a 2nd rounder. He is a journeyman forward folks.
get a grip.

AS is said, if the leafs don't move up at least 10 spots, they get a 2nd rounder... which is probably C-Mac's true relative value.

Mike Fisher went for a 1st... C-Mac is no Fisher.

people... stop being so delusional as to what this guy can fetch


fisher really isnt much different. they both have similar play-making ability and fisher's stats are close to 20 pts below what Mac has this season. fisher isnt worth a first rounder either. he just set the market price for forwards and clearly this year teams are willing to overpay to have a chance to go deep, that is all.

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Old
02-25-2011, 04:53 PM
  #188
KlattNazty
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Originally Posted by Balzac View Post
Too bad Buffalo already had MacArthur would be nice to try an add a prospect like Kassian while his value is up, not saying they're equal value but we've added some nice pieces lately and he would be a great addition for the future along with Colborne
This. Kassian would look great in the blue and white, and he can play a role of enforcer, skill forward, grit and net presence. I could see him lining up well with Kadri and Colborne. You have big time high light reel skill in kadri, two play and puck protection from colborne, and a force in kassian on the other wing.

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Old
02-25-2011, 05:14 PM
  #189
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If you can sign him to a 3 year deal at between $2.3 - $2.9 million per year which is the range of Kumelin to Grabo annual salary you do it. Right now, based on this years performance, that's a top 10 2nd line in the NHL. Add in the youth element and that's a top 10 2nd line for many years to come.

Kessel is a 1st line player .... add Richards as a UFA and there is your first line centre... Lupul we'll see how he works out... waiting in the wings for a tryout are Kadri and Colborne .... or a Burke trade.

3rd line is looking decently solid as it is.

The kids are working hard right now and have made it a playoff race. Trading MacArthur now for pics would hurt their chances and potentially deflate the kids. They deserve some reward for their hard work and keeping MacArthur is that reward.

Any which way you cut it, draft picks are a gamble. MacArthur is having a breakthorugh year but we're also talking about a guy who has scored double digit goals last year despite being given 3rd/4th line minutes and equivalent line mates to play with.

He's also an RFA - even if we don't sign him now, go to ARB then and so what if he gets $3 million for one year. Let him work his butt off again knowing that the following year is a contract year once again. If he puts up the numbers again next year, we'll get even more trade value at the deadline if it comes down to that...

Short if it being a lower echelon cusp team, I don't trade MacArthur for draft pics ... for advanced prospects ... well then maybe ie. B. Schenn, etc.

Go Leafs!

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02-25-2011, 05:40 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Darren Dreger is stupid. That's the only thought that comes to mind. Why not yours?
How does this make you think Dreger is stupid? Calling anyone delusional who believes Dreger's value just shows how nuts some of you are.

You guys are insane if you DON'T think Mac could net a 1st and 2nd. Versteeg got a 1st and a 3rd. Mac is definitely worth more then that. Believe it.

A bunch of you run your mouth at how Dreger isn't credible and then you throw out your own proposed "values" for players when you're the ones who have no clue. Whether you like him or not, the guy IS connected and isn't pulling things out of thin air. He's one of the most credible hockey reporters there are. If you think otherwise you really don't know what your talking about.

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02-25-2011, 05:54 PM
  #191
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Although that seems like good return for a guy we just happened to sign for a very small amount..... WHY!?

Why give up our most offensive player? Why break up a good thing when we're driving? a 1st and 2nd does nothing, unless its flipped for someone huge with the other two...
On draft day maybe.

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02-25-2011, 06:00 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by dipasquale7 View Post
How does this make you think Dreger is stupid? Calling anyone delusional who believes Dreger's value just shows how nuts some of you are.

You guys are insane if you DON'T think Mac could net a 1st and 2nd. Versteeg got a 1st and a 3rd. Mac is definitely worth more then that. Believe it.

A bunch of you run your mouth at how Dreger isn't credible and then you throw out your own proposed "values" for players when you're the ones who have no clue. Whether you like him or not, the guy IS connected and isn't pulling things out of thin air. He's one of the most credible hockey reporters there are. If you think otherwise you really don't know what your talking about.
The stupid part is that Dreger needs to have the story that MacArthur's contract have broken down before talking trade value.

Until that happens this is a whole bunch of pages of wasted time because Burke isn't going to trade a very good forward and a contributing part of his team for picks without a very good reason.

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02-25-2011, 06:05 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
The stupid part is that Dreger needs to have the story that MacArthur's contract have broken down before talking trade value.

Until that happens this is a whole bunch of pages of wasted time because Burke isn't going to trade a very good forward and a contributing part of his team for picks without a very good reason.
I don't think that's the stupid part at all. The guy gets hounded by fans on twitter all the time speculating about things. I'm sure countless people were asking about his potential value on the market and Dreger decided to address it.

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02-25-2011, 06:10 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by dipasquale7 View Post
I don't think that's the stupid part at all. The guy gets hounded by fans on twitter all the time speculating about things. I'm sure countless people were asking about his potential value on the market and Dreger decided to address it.
All of this is over a guess by Darren Dreger? Oy.

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02-25-2011, 08:14 PM
  #195
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I don't know why people seem dead set on ripping this whole team down. Mac is a huge part of this team atm. He's young enough to be in the long term plans and he could be the next Martin St.Louis type player. Or it could be one of those fluke years, either way I think he's more valuable to Toronto then a late 1st and a late 2nd if that indeed is what is being offered. I would like to see us keep him we're only 4 points out guys still quite a bit of hockey left so to trade him now imo would be a slap in the face to the fans.
Well said! Clark has skill & passion. If you even had 3rd pick overall (as compensation) and ended up with a Turris (no offence Kyle). Clark is a known commodity and deserves to stay. I hope they find a fair middle ground for a new contract. I'm sure Dominic Moore in hind site wishes he had taken our offer (from a financial perspective).

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02-25-2011, 08:37 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
I don't know why people seem dead set on ripping this whole team down. Mac is a huge part of this team atm. He's young enough to be in the long term plans and he could be the next Martin St.Louis type player. Or it could be one of those fluke years, either way I think he's more valuable to Toronto then a late 1st and a late 2nd if that indeed is what is being offered. I would like to see us keep him we're only 4 points out guys still quite a bit of hockey left so to trade him now imo would be a slap in the face to the fans.
Well said from me as well. Ditto.
I just read the article on J-Lu (bad, I know) and what he's been through the last couple of years. Hey Joffrey, if your career takes off here, don't get too comfortable, everyone will just want to ship your ass out of town at contract time.

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02-25-2011, 08:40 PM
  #197
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Keep him. We've got picks, it's supposed to be a weak draft, let's stick with the guy we know. Macarthur's got a lot more heart than I expected and has shown the skill this year everybody knows he's had all along. I'd rather him stay and see what he can really do. Reminds me a bit of Steve Sullivan.

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