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Weiss could go to the Leafs per Mckenzie

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Old
02-26-2011, 12:22 AM
  #76
CellarDweller0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandPanther View Post
lol gudbranson will be better than schenn he has way more offensive potential and is even nastier. we have way better prospects than you at this point as well. all 3 we took this year are easily destroying your mediocre prospect pool.
Denial is just one of the seven stages towards healing.

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02-26-2011, 12:24 AM
  #77
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Weiss plays the most cuvated position in hockey right now, Center.
Burke wants Weiss, he'll pay more than 2 first round draft picks for him, substantially more. This deadline market for marquee players is very expensive, and you are correct, his contract time and nice inexpensive price will factor in.

Like I said, it's just my opinion, but 2 first round picks aren't nearly enough this deadline for a guy like Weiss.

Other teams however, have the ability to give up key roster players, that would interest Tallon I'm sure, nice young NHL proven talent, that will most likely land Weiss with a combination of expensive picks. Just my opinion.
Substantially more? I don't think so. I could see the two firsts and a legit prospect. I want Weiss, but you have to be smart about it.

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02-26-2011, 12:26 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Substantially more? I don't think so. I could see the two firsts and a legit prospect. I want Weiss, but you have to be smart about it.
No way, not in this market.
You have to take into account several variables, no way 2 firsts and a prospect land Weiss now, maybe in the off season, but not now.

Take a look at the deals going down, a 1st and 3rd for Versteed, who doesn't even approach Weiss' talent level. And then Fisher's deal.

Like I said, not reality in my opinion.

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02-26-2011, 12:56 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Kadri> any florida prospect, guess Gudbranson could be better, we'll see.

Colborne>Bjugstad or Howden.

Florida's prospect pool isn't that good.

Schenn>>>>>>>>>>>>Kulikov

Leafs are one of the youngest teams and are playing great.
LOL bjugstad has way more potential than colborne who doesnt even know how to use his size while bjugstad does. schenn>>>>> kulikov? LMAO get real. schenn doesnt have close to the dominating potential kulikov has. kulikov can be an elite number 1 while schenn can be a great #2. howden has all the tools to be an excellent player in the NHL size, speed, hockey sense, two way play, hands...etc. i can understand you are on of those leaf fans and have to troll but lets keep it to a minimum please.

kadri would be our number 3 prospect as of now behind gudbranson and markstrom and will probably be passed by bjugstad and howden in the future as well.

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Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
Denial is just one of the seven stages towards healing.
not at all. schenn is proven, but gudbranson has much more potential. he is criminally underrated in the offensive zone.

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02-26-2011, 12:58 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by FinlandPanther View Post
LOL bjugstad has way more potential than colborne who doesnt even know how to use his size while bjugstad does. schenn>>>>> kulikov? LMAO get real. schenn doesnt have close to the dominating potential kulikov has. kulikov can be an elite number 1 while schenn can be a great #2. howden has all the tools to be an excellent player in the NHL size, speed, hockey sense, two way play, hands...etc. i can understand you are on of those leaf fans and have to troll but lets keep it to a minimum please.

kadri would be our number 3 prospect as of now behind gudbranson and markstrom and will probably be passed by bjugstad and howden in the future as well.
We'll see how these prospects turn out for the Panthers. I remember when people expected them to challenge for a cup with Luongo, Horton, Bouwmeester, Weiss etc pre-lockout.

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02-26-2011, 01:01 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
We'll see how these prospects turn out for the Panthers. I remember when people expected them to challenge for a cup with Luongo, Horton, Bouwmeester, Weiss etc pre-lockout.
yes we will. santos has said he wont rush them so if he's true to his word then we will see if this can actually be the core we have needed for the last decade.

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02-26-2011, 01:15 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Oh the irony
What irony? AndMat admitted to being a Wings fan, not a Leafs fan - and few teams have had as much success in the playoffs as Detroit.

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Im not a leaf fan im a detroit fan


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Old
02-26-2011, 01:16 AM
  #83
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Here's something to consider with trading any player for futures.... his value is always going to be highest (in terms of picks/prospects) at the deadline. That's when you have the highest competition for players, especially amongst teams who could't afford a full-year cap hit.

Now, you might ask, if that is the case, why aren't all players traded at the deadline, and by extension why doesn't the market self-regulate the prices to be paid so that trade value doesn't change based on time of year? The answer to this is relatively simple -- in order to be willing to trade a player for picks/prospects, you have to identify that player as expendable at that time, and be prepared to hurt your chances in the playoffs. Most teams aren't prepared to do that, and do not have every player become expendable at that time. There is significant value to having a player for only the stretch run.

As to Weiss' value... you can justify it all you want by saying "Versteeg/Fisher/Kaberle got XXXX"... but at the end of the day, a player's trade value is the greater of what somebody is willing to pay, and what the team requires to trade said player.

The second part (what the panthers require to trade him), is answered by a simple question -- is he a building block for the future, or is he trade bait that can bring in picks/prospects. If it's the former, he'll only get traded in a Stewart-Johnson type deal (what I like to call a true hockey trade). If it's the latter, then the return must simply be better than what they can reasonably expect in the future.

The first part (what others are willing to pay) will problably have a wide range of opinions. At the suggestion of 2 first round picks, I highly doubt he gets that. There are only 2 teams this year with multiple first rounders -- Toronto & Ottawa. Neither are trading both picks for a 28-year old player that belongs as a 2nd line centre. I also doubt that teams will start dipping into 2012 first rounders for a guy that does belong as a 2nd line centre. I suspect that a team like Washington would be in the position to make the best offer, including their first rounder and a prospect, maybe even a guy like Matthieu Perreault.

Is that better than what they can reasonably expect in the offseason? I think so. The Panthers would want picks sooner rather than later, teams will be less desparate to trade for talent the offseason, and another year in Florida with lower production could hurt his value. If the Panthers don't identify him as part of the core going forward, then this is problably who he'll be traded for.

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02-26-2011, 01:22 AM
  #84
Sergei Berezin
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Weiss would get ripped apart in Toronto.

He's nothing better than Matt effin' Stajan.

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02-26-2011, 01:23 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by FinlandPanther View Post
LOL bjugstad has way more potential than colborne who doesnt even know how to use his size while bjugstad does. schenn>>>>> kulikov? LMAO get real. schenn doesnt have close to the dominating potential kulikov has. kulikov can be an elite number 1 while schenn can be a great #2. howden has all the tools to be an excellent player in the NHL size, speed, hockey sense, two way play, hands...etc. i can understand you are on of those leaf fans and have to troll but lets keep it to a minimum please.

kadri would be our number 3 prospect as of now behind gudbranson and markstrom and will probably be passed by bjugstad and howden in the future as well.
You're just as bad as mcphllp. In reality, the Leafs prospect pool is much better than you're saying, and the Panthers prospect pool is much better than what mcphllp is saying.

In the end all prospects can live up to potential or they can all flop, it'll most likely be somewhere in the middle. Only time will tell.

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02-26-2011, 01:24 AM
  #86
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What was the original thread title?

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02-26-2011, 01:36 AM
  #87
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
No way, not in this market.
You have to take into account several variables, no way 2 firsts and a prospect land Weiss now, maybe in the off season, but not now.

Take a look at the deals going down, a 1st and 3rd for Versteed, who doesn't even approach Weiss' talent level. And then Fisher's deal.

Like I said, not reality in my opinion.
the only position fetching a premium is defense

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02-26-2011, 01:38 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
Weiss would get ripped apart in Toronto.

He's nothing better than Matt effin' Stajan.
His speed gives him an edge in forechecking and creating scoring opportunities for himself, but he is not a very gifted finisher. He can score some goals, play the game with intensity and emotion, and be a solid two-way player.

He's not better than Fisher, but he is a similar type of player. He is a 2nd line C on a good team, but we already have Mikhail Grabovski. With Tyler Bozak who has the chance to be a similar player, I don't think he's a wise choice for Toronto.

I'd like him because he's a local Toronto boy who might play the game with an extra edge if he's here, but it's speculation at best.

Panthers will likely want a C in return for him. They are an organization that have very little depth at C and it hardly makes sense for them to trade the only one they have without getting one back. Do the Leafs trade Grabo, Kadri or Colborne for Stephen Weiss? I certainly hope not.

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02-26-2011, 01:49 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
Weiss would get ripped apart in Toronto.

He's nothing better than Matt effin' Stajan.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Stajan is/was an effective depth centre that did an admirable job filling the hole left by Mats Sundin. People ripped on Toronto's talent level at centre in general, but rarely directly at Stajan, realizing that he was simply playing above his element.

Weiss is better than Stajan, but not really by that much. They've both got solid 2-way games and are solid on the draw, while Weiss has a little bit more natural offensive creativity, which could mean the world when slotted into the #1 role.

The problem would be -- that Burke would have to trade for him. Tyler Bozak gets somewhat of that same free pass that Stajan got with the fans/media because everyone knows he's a young inexperienced player playing way out of his element. Weiss wouldn't have that luxury, if Toronto does trade for any established centre, the expectation on that player will be a guy to make Kessel more consistent, and there's really not a whole lot you can do to temper that expectation. This is why Toronto really has to pursue the best possible centre they can get.

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02-26-2011, 01:59 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
Weiss would get ripped apart in Toronto.

He's nothing better than Matt effin' Stajan.
He is better than Stajan. Better contract too.

For me, I wouldn't mind getting Weiss as long as the Leafs aren't overpaying. It's all up to where Weiss wants to go(if he even does want to go) and how much Florida wants for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
Bobby also stated that the Leafs have cooled off talks with Colorado for Joh Michael Liles, as the price being asked for for Liles is too steep right now...

So much for Dreger and his 2nd round pick nonsense... It is going to take more then a 2nd round pick to land Liles folks...
The Leafs aren't willing to pay the 2nd rounder it would take, that's why talks have cooled off. I heard Mac say the price is believed to be a second rounder as well, so you must think he's not credible either.

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02-26-2011, 02:10 AM
  #91
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The Leafs need a real first line center, Weiss would add some depth but we need quality. A 60 point centermen is not good enough for the first line. We need a 70+ point center, very hard to find yes but it's what we're looking for. He's a better player then Stajan but production wise he's about the same.

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02-26-2011, 02:21 AM
  #92
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Who's to say Weiss cant get 70+ points playing with a talent like Kessel?

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02-26-2011, 02:22 AM
  #93
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If I was Burke I would NOT trade for Weiss. He's not what you need right now. If you really are building for the future, just wait it out, Weiss won't be a penned in, he'll be a pencil in, you got Grabo at #2, Kadri/Colborne future #1 depending on development, or wait until the draft to make a big move or trade. Do not put band-aids on the team, put up the foundation.

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02-26-2011, 02:31 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Schennanigans View Post
Who's to say Weiss cant get 70+ points playing with a talent like Kessel?
If teams around the league believed Weiss could be a 70+ point player playing with good talent he would have been dealt by now IMO. So lets say you bring Weiss in, you've got two second line type centers in Weiss and Grabovski, a guy in Bozak who fits in nicely on the third line with a guy like Colborne in the AHL and who likely makes the jump up within 2 years. It would be bad asset management and cap management. We're looking for upgrades here not lateral ones. Knowing what the asking price likely is, we'd basically be getting Versteegs offense back. Lateral.

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02-26-2011, 02:38 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
If teams around the league believed Weiss could be a 70+ point player playing with good talent he would have been dealt by now IMO. So lets say you bring Weiss in, you've got two second line type centers in Weiss and Grabovski, a guy in Bozak who fits in nicely on the third line with a guy like Colborne in the AHL and who likely makes the jump up within 2 years. It would be bad asset management and cap management. We're looking for upgrades here not lateral ones. Knowing what the asking price likely is, we'd basically be getting Versteegs offense back. Lateral.
I don't see it as a problem having another quality guy like Grabo. I think getting a guy like Weiss would be valuable to us, his contract is good, and it would take less pressure off of us relying on Colborne and Kadri to shape their game and jump in the NHL. We can take our time with those guys like we should, and by the end of Weiss's contract we will have a better idea on where we are going. Getting Weiss gives us more options. For all we know he could be better than Grabo and make him expandable, it gives Burke more options.

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02-26-2011, 02:49 AM
  #96
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I've learned a lot in this thread! Stephen Weiss, a veteran at this point with no upside and his 20-goal and 60-point days likely behind, is apparently an elite center! Who knew!?!

I also learned that John Michael Liles is not a suped-up Marc Andre Bergeron, but rather a player who could command a first rounder just to open talks!

Wow, I have really not evaluated these guys correctly in over 15 combined seasons of watching them play professional hockey!

When guys are absurdly off the mark about prospects, that's easy to forgive. They are tough to evaluate and not always on TV consistently. When they are veteran NHL'ers, I just have to chuckle.

Liles could get more than a second in this market and with his hot play, but the Avs will laugh all the way to the bank with what they get. Weiss is not an elite center, the only reason he's not being moved is that he isn't a whiner and he's the best center on a team that's unusually weak at the position.

I'm not a huge fan of Kadri but any GM in the NHL, hell any GM in NHL 11 would jump at a chance to get him for a rebuilding/young team in place of Weiss.

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02-26-2011, 03:14 AM
  #97
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Two firsts and Kadri for Stephen Weiss is insanity, but par for the course when it comes to the absurd over valuations fans make for their established players. I remember when Olli Jokinen was rumored to be on the outs in Florida, and Vancouver fans were sniffing around it. The consensus amongst the Florida faithful was it would cost "Both Sedins and keep adding". He was eventually traded for Keith Ballard. And he was a 90 point center at the time who was carrying the team on his back, not a slightly built guy whose career average is in the 45 point range.

If Weiss is traded it will be for a tawdry looking mixed bag of assets that will outrage Florida fans at first glimpse and on closer evaluation be pretty much exactly in line with appropriate market value.

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02-26-2011, 03:31 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Andrew Knoll View Post
I've learned a lot in this thread! Stephen Weiss, a veteran at this point with no upside and his 20-goal and 60-point days likely behind, is apparently an elite center! Who knew!?!

I also learned that John Michael Liles is not a suped-up Marc Andre Bergeron, but rather a player who could command a first rounder just to open talks!

Wow, I have really not evaluated these guys correctly in over 15 combined seasons of watching them play professional hockey!

When guys are absurdly off the mark about prospects, that's easy to forgive. They are tough to evaluate and not always on TV consistently. When they are veteran NHL'ers, I just have to chuckle.

Liles could get more than a second in this market and with his hot play, but the Avs will laugh all the way to the bank with what they get. Weiss is not an elite center, the only reason he's not being moved is that he isn't a whiner and he's the best center on a team that's unusually weak at the position.

I'm not a huge fan of Kadri but any GM in the NHL, hell any GM in NHL 11 would jump at a chance to get him for a rebuilding/young team in place of Weiss.
finally someone with some ******* common sense.

if i have to read another post about liles being worth as much as kaberle or weiss being worth 2 first rounders i'm going to throw my laptop off my balcony.


Last edited by Saul Goodman: 02-26-2011 at 03:41 AM. Reason: spelling
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02-26-2011, 04:47 AM
  #99
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To compare your prospect pool to ours is a joke. Kadri would easily be behind Markström and Gudbransson. And Colborne wouldn't even be in the top 5.


Last edited by AwesomePanthers: 02-26-2011 at 04:59 AM.
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02-26-2011, 05:08 AM
  #100
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To compare your prospect pool to ours is a joke. Kadri would easily be behind Markström and Gudbransson. And Colborne wouldn't even be in the top 5.
Reimer, Scrivens, Rynnas>>Markstrom


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