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Official 2011 Ottawa Senators Draft Thread Part IV

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:45 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
If the standings stay where they are:
Oilers- Larsson
Ottawa- Landes/Cout/RNH
NYI- Landes/Cout/RNH
NJD- would they trade Landes/Cout/RNH for Rundblad? IMO NJ biggest need is a young PMD and Rundblad is NHL ready.
It would also work for the D next year on the right side:
Left side- Phillips/Kuba, Campoli, Cowen
Right side- Karlsson, Gonchar, Lee
extra- Carkner

The question is did Rundblad stock rise that much in the last year?
I'm not sure Ottawa makes that trade to be honest.

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02-26-2011, 10:58 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
For some reason Chicago chose a 21 year old to lead that star-laden group. He ended up raising his game in the playoffs to a point where he won the Conn Smythe....leading that group. They addressed leader in 2006 and passed on players that you could expect would outscore him in the NHL, they won the Cup 3 years later. Kessel may be a more offensively talented player but when the stakes are raised he disappears, all I've seen from Toews is when the stakes are highest, he's the best. I tend to associate that with character.

And Landeskog appears to be a guy that won't ever take a shift off, won't back off after the whistle, and will be a vocal leader in the dressing room.
1998 Lecavalier -> 2004 = Cup
2003 E.Staal -> 2006 = Cup
2006 J.Staal -> 2009 = Cup

Good players on good teams win Cups... and some of those good teams <cough-Pit, Chi-cough> were bad for a long time to draft multiple high picks.

---------------------------

Kessel?

Couturier might be the best two-way player to go in the first round.
He's 55.4 in the dot.
He's the best offensive player.
He's great along the boards.
His public goals this season seem to have been to make Team Canada and win with Drummondville.

This is a kid who's worked extremely hard based on his fathers advice to become a hard working, all-round player with no deficiencies.

Phil Kessel was a lazy, 1-way, midget with attitude problems that dropped from a projected 1st to 5th over the course of the year.

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02-26-2011, 11:19 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
1998 Lecavalier -> 2004 = Cup
2003 E.Staal -> 2006 = Cup
2006 J.Staal -> 2009 = Cup

Good players on good teams win Cups... and some of those good teams <cough-Pit, Chi-cough> were bad for a long time to draft multiple high picks.

---------------------------

Kessel?

Couturier might be the best two-way player to go in the first round.
He's 55.4 in the dot.
He's the best offensive player.
He's great along the boards.
His public goals this season seem to have been to make Team Canada and win with Drummondville.

This is a kid who's worked extremely hard based on his fathers advice to become a hard working, all-round player with no deficiencies.

Phil Kessel was a lazy, 1-way, midget with attitude problems that dropped from a projected 1st to 5th over the course of the year.
But but but....Kessel scorezzz goalzzzzzzzzz!!!!1

We'll agree to disagree, I won't be mad either way but I do firmly believe Landeskog is going to give the team that picks him more than they bargained for and will be held among the top leaders in the game. Similar to the way no one expected Mike Richards to be the player he is. I'm just enamored by an 17-18 year old Swede coming over to the CHL and given Captaincy...there's gotta be something to that IMO.

Not saying Couturier is deficient in these areas either, just like I say there's no reason why RNH or Larsson can't be captains in the future...it just might not be the expectation. It appears though, that he/they isn't in the same realm.

If in a couple years Landeskog becomes a budding Jarome Iginla on a team that is taking itself out of the gutter, Ill feel reaffirmed that if you have a lump of players that are very close in prospect....the one you may want to feel most confident in to get the most out of is probably the born leader in the group. I think it could be because the born leader is a pro, teaches himself to improve because he's competitive and expects to lead, and with that makes the players around him better than they were supposed to be.

If Landeskog becomes a good 25-35 1st line center for a team that underachieves or just doesn't overachieve or progress....I'll have learned hey, take that born leader stuff with a grain of salt.

Toews played for a contender aside from all the things he deserves to be credited for like being the young captain on that contender, he also became that contenders 1st line center when it was expected he may just be a 2nd line center for his career. The fact that his team doesn't take away the facts that the Hawks got a guy that surpassed expectations, won a Cup and Conn Smythe in the same year as top forward at the Olympics even if they don't make the POs this year; it's the nature of the league.

What they do have in Toews is a guy that can draft, trade for, sign and tell this is a guy you should follow and he's been there he's the youngest member of the Triple Gold and he's done everything...and he sets the example for this franchise. And chances are they'll be able to do that for 15-20 years while Toews continues to get more out of himself then people expected. After all of his accolades last year, he might be a Selke favourite right now.

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02-26-2011, 11:26 AM
  #54
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Oh and Zibanejad got another today. I'm starting to wonder if the qualms about his limited offensive upside have more to do with just adapting to playing against men and continuing to get comfortable using offensive tools.

By the sounds of it....he may be at the front end of an upgrade in his play in the SEL. If Zibanejad is going to make a name for himself a real riser in this draft...it could be as a result of the stretch of games he is about to play. That's assuming he's playing as well today as he was said to have played last game. Wish I could see him play.

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02-26-2011, 11:37 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
But but but....Kessel scorezzz goalzzzzzzzzz!!!!1

We'll agree to disagree, I won't be mad either way but I do firmly believe Landeskog is going to give the team that picks him more than they bargained for and will be held among the top leaders in the game. Similar to the way no one expected Mike Richards to be the player he is. I'm just enamored by an 17-18 year old Swede coming over to the CHL and given Captaincy...there's gotta be something to that IMO.

Not saying Couturier is deficient in these areas either, just like I say there's no reason why RNH or Larsson can't be captains in the future...it just might not be the expectation. It appears though, that he/they isn't in the same realm.

If in a couple years Landeskog becomes a budding Jarome Iginla on a team that is taking itself out of the gutter, Ill feel reaffirmed that if you have a lump of players that are very close in prospect....the one you may want to feel most confident in to get the most out of is probably the born leader in the group. I think it could be because the born leader is a pro, teaches himself to improve because he's competitive and expects to lead, and with that makes the players around him better than they were supposed to be.

If Landeskog becomes a good 25-35 1st line center for a team that underachieves or just doesn't overachieve or progress....I'll have learned hey, take that born leader stuff with a grain of salt.

Toews played for a contender aside from all the things he deserves to be credited for like being the young captain on that contender, he also became that contenders 1st line center when it was expected he may just be a 2nd line center for his career. The fact that his team doesn't take away the facts that the Hawks got a guy that surpassed expectations, won a Cup and Conn Smythe in the same year as top forward at the Olympics even if they don't make the POs this year; it's the nature of the league.

What they do have in Toews is a guy that can draft, trade for, sign and tell this is a guy you should follow and he's been there he's the youngest member of the Triple Gold and he's done everything...and he sets the example for this franchise. And chances are they'll be able to do that for 15-20 years while Toews continues to get more out of himself then people expected. After all of his accolades last year, he might be a Selke favourite right now.
You might want to just stop projecting and offer up our lottery pick and some other niceties to Chicago for Toews.

Projecting specifics like that is how you wind up drafting Boris Chara 10th overall.

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Old
02-26-2011, 11:39 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
You might want to just stop projecting and offer up our lottery pick and some other niceties to Chicago for Toews.

Projecting specifics like that is how you wind up drafting Boris Chara 10th overall.
I'd love to. But we will see

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02-26-2011, 12:17 PM
  #57
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Went to see the Sea Dogs Olympique game last night. First I want to say that the Sea Dogs are simply AMAZING. What a team. It's no wonder that they have SIX players in the NA top 60 according to the NHL Central Scouting. Here's what I thought of the big 4 for the Sea Dogs:

Huberdeau - He didn't disappoint as he appears to be dangerous every time he's on the ice. He doesn't seem to be much of a puck possession guy in this game though. Everyone's jaw dropped when he made his patented move in the 3rd period to set up their 3rd goal. It really was a thing of beauty to see live. He did take 2 dumb penalties in the game. Ended up being the 2nd star of the game with 2 assists.

Beaulieu - This kid is just as impressive as Huberdeau in my opinion. He caught my attention at the top prospects game and did nothing but raise his stocks in my eyes after watching him live. He plays physical, shows elite defensive awareness, great shot release, and is a smooth skater. I think this kid has it all to be an elite puck moving defenseman.

Jurco - The skating and puck skill is very evident but he seems to be a little bit of a floater last night. I think Jurco have all the tools to be a good NHL player one day, but it's definitely a few years away. He'd make a good pick as a very late 1st rounder or early second rounder.

Phillips - He looks like a really good skater and his speed helps the first line. I think Huberdeau benefits from playing with him as much as he benefits from playing Huberdeau. These guys have great chemistry. I didn't see the same level of offensive awareness and vision from him compared to Huberdeau obviously, but I think Phillips will be a solid second round pick.

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Old
02-26-2011, 12:35 PM
  #58
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I started a Mock Draft over in the Mock Draft Section, if anyone is interested.


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Old
02-26-2011, 12:40 PM
  #59
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Landeskog isn't just his intangibles though is the big thing. He's the best 2 way forward in the draft, he's an elite offensive talent and he's physical. It helps that he seems to be very smart. Landeskog is the complete package. It helps that he's the best goal scorer of the class too considering how badly we need some top end shoot first talent.

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02-26-2011, 01:14 PM
  #60
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I find it strange when people or scouts start talking about a forwards' two-way or defensive play. Both Couturier and Lando get this a lot, and it is really of nominal value in the big picture, other than they might be a bit more ready to play next year (which again, shouldn't be the focus when drafting). It's quite possible guys like RNH or Huberdeau or Strome will end up better defensive forwards.

Most of the best defensive forwards we have ever had were drafted as offensive players first and defence wasn't even part of the equation. Hossa as an example, was criticized when drafted as a guy with a load of offensive potential "but someone who couldn't find his own zone with a map", as I recall the quote. In the end, he is argually the best defensive forward we ever had. Kelly as another example, was a small offensively gifted player in the OHL deemed too small to produce at the NHL level, which is why he was drafted later. No one projected him as a two-way checking center. Bonk was another guy who all-offence when drafted, but adapted his game to be one the of the best two-way centermen we ever had.

Given I like both Couturier and Lando, this isn't meant as a criticizm. Both play mature games. But that isn't really what the focus should be one. What type of impact player they will be on the franchise is the real question.

Just venting, I guess.

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02-26-2011, 01:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Given I like both Couturier and Lando, this isn't meant as a criticizm. Both play mature games.
15 years after being drafted 2nd overall, Alexei Yashin left the NHL as one of the laziest defensive players and worst face-off men in the league.

Maturity is an important attribute.

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02-26-2011, 01:48 PM
  #62
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If it comes down to a center or winger, I hope we choose the center every single time.

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02-26-2011, 01:48 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
15 years after being drafted 2nd overall, Alexei Yashin left the NHL as one of the laziest defensive players and worst face-off men in the league.

Maturity is an important attribute.
See, this is where you are way off, however.

Yashin, when drafted, was seen as one of the more mature prospects around. He was a natural leader of Team Russia. When asked which team mate was the most talented, and which team mate they most looked up to and liked to play with, over 90% of the Russian prospects picked Yashin, which was a stunning ratio.

After being drafted, he was a leader on the Russian WC team, despite being a teenager. When he arrived in Ottawa, he was calm and composed, and did not get flustered by opponents going after him physically. While Daigle partied it up at Nescalero's three nights a week, Yashin was living with his family and working out like a fiend.

Now that strength of character, ultimately turned into stubborness at what he perceived was a slight by Sens management, followed by another. And that strength became a weakness and his undoing in Ottawa.

But that's exactly why you can't predict what a "mature game" is in any scientific way.

And either way, what are inferring? We should have taken Todd Warriner? Mike Rathje? Yashin was the right pick, maturity or not.

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02-26-2011, 02:00 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
15 years after being drafted 2nd overall, Alexei Yashin left the NHL as one of the laziest defensive players and worst face-off men in the league.

Maturity is an important attribute.
One other point on this. I think actually think being deemed to have a "mature" game is a negative for a top 10 pick.

Guys like Manny Malhotra, Petr Taticek and James Sheppard, all played a tremendously "mature" game when drafted. They just "oozed" hockey sense according to most scouts. They were all top 10 picks and all were poorly scouted when it came down to it.

What this translated in scout speak was, their games were already fully developed and they would never be a high impact player.

I'd rather take my chances on taming a dynamic but immature stallion that could run like the wind, than a quarter horse that will do exactly what I ask, right out of the gate.

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02-26-2011, 02:06 PM
  #65
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I saw Murray and Dorion at the Gatineau vs Saint John game yesterday

scouting Huberdeau, Beaulieu, Jurco, Philips?

or all 4?

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02-26-2011, 02:06 PM
  #66
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If it comes down to a center or winger, I hope we choose the center every single time.
I would probably only say this if a winger has never been more valuable than a center. I agree with it in principal but there are many exceptions to the rule. Some people might just not see it as a tie being between RNH/Couturier VS the winger.

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02-26-2011, 02:10 PM
  #67
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I saw Murray and Dorion at the Gatineau vs Saint John game yesterday

scouting Huberdeau, Beaulieu, Jurco, Philips?

or all 4?
Pretty much could have went there last night expecting to see those two. They hold 3 picks in the top 32 right now and St John has 4 guys that could within that range...all 4 of these guys could become serious decisions for us. The GM will go see players for himself, that could be in question, more likely when it is convenient.

Expect our brass to be at the Civic Center when Kitch is back in town. And potentially every time a prospect in question is playing in Ottawa or Gatineau...playoffs especially.

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02-26-2011, 02:27 PM
  #68
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I'd love to get Jurco or Phillips with that Nashville pick, if Zibanejad is off the board. I'd probably say the same thing about Beaulieu if our depth on D wasn't so good.

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02-26-2011, 02:57 PM
  #69
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See, this is where you are way off, however.

Yashin, when drafted, was seen as one of the more mature prospects around. He was a natural leader of Team Russia. When asked which team mate was the most talented, and which team mate they most looked up to and liked to play with, over 90% of the Russian prospects picked Yashin, which was a stunning ratio.

After being drafted, he was a leader on the Russian WC team, despite being a teenager. When he arrived in Ottawa, he was calm and composed, and did not get flustered by opponents going after him physically. While Daigle partied it up at Nescalero's three nights a week, Yashin was living with his family and working out like a fiend.

Now that strength of character, ultimately turned into stubborness at what he perceived was a slight by Sens management, followed by another. And that strength became a weakness and his undoing in Ottawa.

But that's exactly why you can't predict what a "mature game" is in any scientific way.

And either way, what are inferring? We should have taken Todd Warriner? Mike Rathje? Yashin was the right pick, maturity or not.
Prospects are all watching the same interviews, listening to the same hockey people and paying more attention to their careers at 16-17 years old than actual NHL players did in the 1960's & 70's. All-round play shouldn't be a priority above offensive potential in the first round, but it should be seen as a commitment to improve and earn a spot in the NHL between two similarly regarded offensive prospects.

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02-26-2011, 02:57 PM
  #70
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1)Couturier
2)Landeskog
3)Huberdeau
No RNH please. Screams streaky bust to me.

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02-26-2011, 03:11 PM
  #71
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Went to see the Sea Dogs Olympique game last night. First I want to say that the Sea Dogs are simply AMAZING. What a team. It's no wonder that they have SIX players in the NA top 60 according to the NHL Central Scouting. Here's what I thought of the big 4 for the Sea Dogs:

Huberdeau - He didn't disappoint as he appears to be dangerous every time he's on the ice. He doesn't seem to be much of a puck possession guy in this game though. Everyone's jaw dropped when he made his patented move in the 3rd period to set up their 3rd goal. It really was a thing of beauty to see live. He did take 2 dumb penalties in the game. Ended up being the 2nd star of the game with 2 assists.

Beaulieu - This kid is just as impressive as Huberdeau in my opinion. He caught my attention at the top prospects game and did nothing but raise his stocks in my eyes after watching him live. He plays physical, shows elite defensive awareness, great shot release, and is a smooth skater. I think this kid has it all to be an elite puck moving defenseman.

Jurco - The skating and puck skill is very evident but he seems to be a little bit of a floater last night. I think Jurco have all the tools to be a good NHL player one day, but it's definitely a few years away. He'd make a good pick as a very late 1st rounder or early second rounder.

Phillips - He looks like a really good skater and his speed helps the first line. I think Huberdeau benefits from playing with him as much as he benefits from playing Huberdeau. These guys have great chemistry. I didn't see the same level of offensive awareness and vision from him compared to Huberdeau obviously, but I think Phillips will be a solid second round pick.
Was there last night as well and couldn't agree more with this assesement, Phillips stood out the most for me, would totally welcome him with our Nashville pic, and if Jurco or Beaulieu make it to our 2nd round they would be a great pickup.

I don't think we'll have the option anyway, but if for some reason we pick around 5-7 or trade up I think I still would go Strome over Huberdeau, but its close, just think Strome is more of a pure goal scorer, but really I'd be quite happy with either.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino5000 View Post
I saw Murray and Dorion at the Gatineau vs Saint John game yesterday

scouting Huberdeau, Beaulieu, Jurco, Philips?

or all 4?
Really? Was he in a press box or something? I was keeping an eye out for Murray...hehe

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02-26-2011, 04:39 PM
  #72
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What's the scouting report on Puempel? Do you guys think we have a shot at him with Nashville's 1st?

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02-26-2011, 04:43 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Prospects are all watching the same interviews, listening to the same hockey people and paying more attention to their careers at 16-17 years old than actual NHL players did in the 1960's & 70's. All-round play shouldn't be a priority above offensive potential in the first round, but it should be seen as a commitment to improve and earn a spot in the NHL between two similarly regarded offensive prospects.
I agree as a tie-breaker, my point was simply that we shouldn't draft Lando because of his character if our scouts think either RNH or SC are more impact players offensively. You can't chase character when drafting in the top 10.

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02-26-2011, 04:45 PM
  #74
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What's the scouting report on Puempel? Do you guys think we have a shot at him with Nashville's 1st?
If Nashville's pick is in the 15-19 range, then probably. I would suspect Puempel could go anywhere from #10-25, which means we might have a shot with that pick. I for one would be pumped if we got him.

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02-26-2011, 04:45 PM
  #75
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I agree as a tie-breaker, my point was simply that we shouldn't draft Lando because of his character if our scouts think either RNH or SC are more impact players offensively. You can't chase character when drafting in the top 10.
I hate to keep bringing up the Blackhawks, but, the Blackhawks did.

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