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Old
02-26-2011, 04:22 PM
  #76
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I also have to add that I find it insulting how Hemsky is simply picked out as "injury-prone winger" while the Rangers own the definition of that term in Marian Gaborik. Those two are incredibly similar in every aspect, but I'm certain Gaborik would yield the &$%#ing Moon as a return in the eyes of Ranger fans. We'll keep Hemsky thanks.
Which is exactly the reason we don't need hemsky. Did you not read our posts. Theres no need for an oft injured winger when we already have the glass man himself.

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02-26-2011, 04:24 PM
  #77
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Would be a steal for the Rangers.

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:27 PM
  #78
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He's at Seabrook's level, so I guess a 1A where he can be a #1 but is a #2 on good defensive teams. He will be a #1 very soon though.
And Chris Pronger not a #1 if he was on Detroit.

The whole "so and so would not be 1st line on team X" is always insane.

And i guess the 25-30 mins a night he gets against the Crosbys and Ovechkins of the world is only because of a lack of better options.

If there were really 30+ D-man better than him right now, then he was put in the ASG by mistake, and canada must really be in trouble, because he is on the short-list for the next olympics.

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02-26-2011, 04:28 PM
  #79
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Rangers pass on this, I think.

Hemsky is an attractive player for a dink-and-doink deal, one where you send several pieces that may/may not pan out. He is not a franchise player and he's got a shaky injury history. That is not worth a top pairing DMan. Omark, Smid, 2nd, this is just tossing stuff in to make the deal look attractive. The core is Hemsky for Staal and I'd say no to that unless another big piece were accompanying Hemsky.

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02-26-2011, 04:37 PM
  #80
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He's already a #1.

People need to stop looking at stats to determine where a Dman should be slotted. Staal is already a #1 shutdown Dman.
When people talk about a #1, I think they're talking about Norris candidate material. Unfortunately, points do count and Staal's got a way to go before he gets talked about in the same sentence as guys like Lidstrom, Pronger or even Shea Weber, etc...

I tell you, if someone proposed Hemsky for Staal even up, I wouldn't do it but I don't think it would be that crazy either.

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02-26-2011, 04:39 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
When people talk about a #1, I think they're talking about Norris candidate material. Unfortunately, points do count and Staal's got a way to go before he gets talked about in the same sentence as guys like Lidstrom, Pronger or even Shea Weber, etc... ou

I tell you, if someone proposed Hemsky for Staal even up, I wouldn't do it but I don't think it would be that crazy either.
It would be crazy. And Norris or not, i don't worry about points when it comes to staal. I want him to shut down the best players in the league which he does a great job of.

We look to Del Zotto for the points

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02-26-2011, 04:47 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
theres your problem...your looking at stats. Girardi is not even close to where staal is in terms of skill..

Do I love girardi, yea, but you comparing him to staal shows you know very little about the rangers players.
You're right...skill isn't provided on a stat sheet. But those stats show you what that player brings to the ice.

And I'm not comparing Girardi on skill. I'm using him as an example of the compliment he has on Staal's overall game. Staal is an excellent one-on-one defenseman. He wins puck battle after puck battle. Phenomenal. Without the game Girardi brings, Staal 's game gets more difficult--considerably.

A top-10 hits, top-10 shot-blocks guy could be argued to be as just as valuable to your club as Staal is.

I agree NY wouldn't even consider moving Staal for a guy they already have in Gaborik. Just as the Oilers would never move that many valuable pieces for Staal either.


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Old
02-26-2011, 04:52 PM
  #83
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Take the 2nd rounder out and I think it's a fair deal.

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02-26-2011, 04:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
It would be crazy. And Norris or not, i don't worry about points when it comes to staal. I want him to shut down the best players in the league which he does a great job of.

We look to Del Zotto for the points
I wouldnt judge Staal on his offensive production either. From the mid 90's on Scott Stevens wasn't a big producer, but no way in hell would you judge his play from the box score(not comparing Staal to a HoF'er)

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02-26-2011, 05:01 PM
  #85
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You ever watch the rangers? For all the hype, Hall is still unproven at this level. It would take more than just him to get Staal right now. Be realistic. Staal is an elite defender.
Unproven? You could of used that argument in the first 10 games of the season. It's absurd to call him unproven, considering he has more goals than anyone on the Rangers. The kid's legit.

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02-26-2011, 05:04 PM
  #86
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Not happening. Rangers will not trade Staal. He's on a sweet deal, is young, and an all-star.

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02-26-2011, 05:05 PM
  #87
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besides hall or eberle there are no other assets that will lure the rangers into trading staal to edmonton, and hall and eberle are too important to the oiler's future.

don't see anything happening between these two teams for staal.

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02-26-2011, 06:14 PM
  #88
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Staal is arguably not the best most complete overall D in the game.
Staal IS possibly the best shutdown D in the NHL right now.

Taking into account age, etc., not looking to trade Coke for Pepsi, etc., the only two guys I even think about trading Staal for are Weber, and even then I offer to overpay the Preds with Girardi, Boyle for starters, plus what additional can be agreed on, and likewise Doughty, with same offer to Kings.

It's one thing to have a unique situation where Pens have overconcentration of salary cap in a couple of guys and lack of depth (which incidentally they have done fabulously over the past year to improve) and you make a pitch for, say Malkin (pre-injury).
The guy's elite + they've got elite Crosby and they'd be restructuring/repurposing Malkin's cap hit.

It's another thing to take an irreplaceable star from a somewhat more balanced team (balanced to extent of players they have; not saying there isn't deadwood that's gotta go as soon as prospects, etc., are available).

Staal will probably retire a Ranger...

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02-26-2011, 06:20 PM
  #89
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Staal is signed long term to a very favorable contract.

Hemsky expires in a year. If he stays healthy and we decide to re-sign him, cap space becomes an issue.
Smid is nice, but not Staal.

Omark is easily the black sheep of the Edmonton youth movement.

If Edmonton wants Staal, it's going to be like the Erik Johnson deal, except more value coming to NYR, since Staal is our defensive captain and about as close to a malcontent as EDM is to a playoff spot.

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02-26-2011, 06:27 PM
  #90
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Would be a steal for the Rangers.
Maybe the Texas Rangers. Or the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

The New York Rangers get totally ass****ed here though. Those who watch the Rangers regularly will point out the obvious (like some non-Ranger fans already have).

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Originally Posted by belair View Post
You're right...skill isn't provided on a stat sheet. But those stats show you what that player brings to the ice.

And I'm not comparing Girardi on skill. I'm using him as an example of the compliment he has on Staal's overall game. Staal is an excellent one-on-one defenseman. He wins puck battle after puck battle. Phenomenal. Without the game Girardi brings, Staal 's game gets more difficult--considerably.

A top-10 hits, top-10 shot-blocks guy could be argued to be as just as valuable to your club as Staal is.
Hitting and blocking doesn't necessarily mean the defender is exceptional at 'defending'. Girardi is not even close to Staal's level, but the fact that you believe Staal's game gets more difficult w/o Girardi shows how little you know about the Rangers blue-line. Girardi and Staal don't even belong in the same sentence.

There are about a dozen dmen in the entire league that understand gap-control like Staal. And the kid is blessed with an enormous wingspan that consistently blows things up for opposing forwards. Reach, gap-control, and active stick, and a brilliant understanding of coverage is just a small portion of what Staal brings to the game.

Doesn't matter who his defense partner is. Staal's a rock. A 23 year old one who's going to continue improving his game. Marc Staal is practically untouchable, unless someone wants to offer their untouchables.

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Take the 2nd rounder out and I think it's a fair deal.
Replace that 2nd rounder with consecutive 1sts, and the Rangers still pass. But, for ****'s and giggles, let's pretend the Rangers offered a similar package to Edm for one of their young studs -- what do you think the reaction would be?

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besides hall or eberle there are no other assets that will lure the rangers into trading staal to edmonton, and hall and eberle are too important to the oiler's future.

don't see anything happening between these two teams for staal.
This is true. To be quite honest, I don't think Slats would move Staal for one of Hall/Eberle, either. Not because of 'value'. Remove Staal from the Rangers defense core, and start the ****ing firesale/rebuild. He's that vital to our blue-line. Girardi, Sauer, McDonagh, Gilroy, MDZ? Who lines up against AO? Or Crosby? . . .

Staal is practically untouchable from a Rangers perspective. Especially for the asinine proposal the OP created. It's not even remotely close to being a realistic proposal.

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02-26-2011, 06:28 PM
  #91
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were not trading staal and were not trading hemsky. why does this board have to have so many rangers/oilers deals? our defense is not good when u take away our best defenseman who also is signed long term at a very good cap hit for the club. acquiring hemsky gives us 3 rw's next year with a combined cap hit of probably around 15m with two of them being injury prone and not great fits with our system. the other assets in this deal are just quantity in my eyes.

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Old
02-26-2011, 06:31 PM
  #92
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Massive overpay from edmonton, NYR WOULD TAKE THIS AND RUN, desipite the nyr fans saying no, thank god they are not GM's because you'd have to be ******** to not take that offer.

So in the end no from both sides. BUT MORE SO FROM EDMONTON.

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02-26-2011, 06:45 PM
  #93
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Massive overpay from edmonton, NYR WOULD TAKE THIS AND RUN, desipite the nyr fans saying no, thank god they are not GM's because you'd have to be ******** to not take that offer.

So in the end no from both sides. BUT MORE SO FROM EDMONTON.
You are a homer fan if you think the rangers even listen to this deal let alone take it.

Please, people who watch marc staal on a regular basis should be the only ones commenting here. Even fans of opposing teams in our division will tell you this trade wouldn't get him here.

He is, along with lundqvist, the best thing this rangers team has. As i stated earlier, even if hall or eberle were offered for him the ranger still might not take, just because we would have noone to shutdown the elite players in our conference/division.

Staal is vital to the rangers success.

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02-26-2011, 06:48 PM
  #94
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Massive overpay from edmonton, NYR WOULD TAKE THIS AND RUN, desipite the nyr fans saying no, thank god they are not GM's because you'd have to be ******** to not take that offer.

So in the end no from both sides. BUT MORE SO FROM EDMONTON.
I am so stunned by how clueless a post this is. Are you 12?

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02-26-2011, 07:33 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Hitting and blocking doesn't necessarily mean the defender is exceptional at 'defending'. Girardi is not even close to Staal's level, but the fact that you believe Staal's game gets more difficult w/o Girardi shows how little you know about the Rangers blue-line. Girardi and Staal don't even belong in the same sentence.
Yeah...but it also doesn't hurt. Girardi leading the league in shot blocks doesn't help Staal's game? I'm sorry, I forgot...It's just Staal's gap-control that keeps the puck out of the net.

I don't understand why it's so hard to fathom that Staal isn't an elite defender. He hasn't earned the label. Yes, the OP trade is stupid. Both ways. Staal is a presence that is irreplaceable on the Rangers' blue-line. He's got excellent talent, he's still young and he's got a very manageable contract.

What he isn't and likely won't be is a top-5 defender, he shouldn't have been an All-Star and he definitely isn't worthy of the return offered in the OP. Which was my initial argument.

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02-26-2011, 07:48 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
NYR:

Hemsky
Omark
Smid
2nd (2011)

EDM:

M. Staal

I know Staal likely won't get traded but is that enough for him from an NYR perspective? Would you prefer Penner and Brule instead of Hemsky?
Start off with Eberle and your 1st round pick and other stuff you DON'T want to give up, when you want to make a deal for Mark Staal. That's a good starting point. Not these other relative scraps you offer, you can get lost with these, they're insulting.

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02-26-2011, 07:51 PM
  #97
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Yeah...but it also doesn't hurt. Girardi leading the league in shot blocks doesn't help Staal's game? I'm sorry, I forgot...It's just Staal's gap-control that keeps the puck out of the net.

I don't understand why it's so hard to fathom that Staal isn't an elite defender. He hasn't earned the label. Yes, the OP trade is stupid. Both ways. Staal is a presence that is irreplaceable on the Rangers' blue-line. He's got excellent talent, he's still young and he's got a very manageable contract.

What he isn't and likely won't be is a top-5 defender, he shouldn't have been an All-Star and he definitely isn't worthy of the return offered in the OP. Which was my initial argument.
Girardi's league-leading stats in blocked shots doesn't make Staal a more capable dmen. Doesn't matter who the hell is on his right side, the pairing is going to likely shut down your top-line.

What is an elite dmen? How many elite dmen exist in the league today? How many 23 year old's on the league qualify for elite status? Did I suggest Staal is an elite dmen, by the way? Or are you just, having fun tilting people's opinions?

I never suggested Staal's a top-5 dmen either. Why the hell would you bring that up for? Quote the right guy if you want to have a serious discussion about something.

Your initial argument is flawed, because you have rarely watched Staal play. Proof is in your Girardi comment, as well as the rest of your vanilla scouting report on him. Stop talking about a player you know very little about. And I'm actually shocked you don't think he deserved to be in the All-Star game.

I don't think you know much about the Rangers. Nor the players on their roster. Or Blue-line. Staal's untouchable. You can offer us Ebs, or Hall, and Sather would still pass up on the offer. Eberle and Hall aren't going to outscore the real elite's of the league that Staal regularly shuts down.


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02-26-2011, 08:18 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Girardi's league-leading stats in blocked shots doesn't make Staal a more capable dmen. Doesn't matter who the hell is on his right side, the pairing is going to likely shut down your top-line.

What is an elite dmen? How many elite dmen exist in the league today? How many 23 year old's on the league qualify for elite status? Did I suggest Staal is an elite dmen, by the way? Or are you just, having fun tilting people's opinions?

I never suggested Staal's a top-5 dmen either. Why the hell would you bring that up for? Quote the right guy if you want to have a serious discussion about something.

Your initial argument is flawed, because you have rarely watched Staal play. Proof is in your Girardi comment, as well as the rest of your vanilla scouting report on him. Stop talking about a player you know very little about. And I'm actually shocked you don't think he deserved to be in the All-Star game.

I don't think you know much about the Rangers. Nor the players on their roster. Or Blue-line. Staal's untouchable. You can offer us Ebs, or Hall, and Sather would still pass up on the offer. Eberle and Hall aren't going to outscore the real elite's of the league that Staal regularly shuts down.

It's so cute when homers in certain fanbases defend their "elite" players.

To respond to your Top-5 statement, I did quote the poster who originally made that comment. You are the one who decided to chime in about Girardi's stats having no effect on Staal's incomparable defensive game.

If you cared to have read my posts, I have reiterated that Staal is immovable for NY. Anyways...I'm done wasting my time on this. Both teams say no.

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Old
02-26-2011, 09:14 PM
  #99
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It's so cute when homers in certain fanbases defend their "elite" players.
Again, remind me where I said he was elite.

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Originally Posted by belair View Post
To respond to your Top-5 statement, I did quote the poster who originally made that comment. You are the one who decided to chime in about Girardi's stats having no effect on Staal's incomparable defensive game.
Explain to me how Girardi's shotblocking ability improves Staal's defensive game? They certainly play well together, but Staal has been his usual shutdown self with other defense partners (like Rozsival).

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If you cared to have read my posts, I have reiterated that Staal is immovable for NY. Anyways...I'm done wasting my time on this. Both teams say no.
Rangers don't say No, actually. Lowe's not that foolish. He would already know the answer to his dumb, insulting offer. Sather isn't stupid. He's not trading away the second most valuable player in the organization for anything less than a disgustingly massive overpayment that involved rare diamonds and a years subscription to unlimited funds, beer, chronic, and of course, woman, for the entire fanbase nonetheless.

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02-26-2011, 11:56 PM
  #100
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Start off with Eberle and your 1st round pick and other stuff you DON'T want to give up, when you want to make a deal for Mark Staal. That's a good starting point. Not these other relative scraps you offer, you can get lost with these, they're insulting.
Mentioning Hall, Eberle, and our first round pick is insulting.

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