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Old
02-26-2011, 10:55 AM
  #426
Gnashdavis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris Le Tigre View Post
Ahhheeemmm...

Take me to your leader. Greatings Preds fans I come in peace.

Does one, Jordan Tootoo, have a spot on your club for the foreseeable future...

or

is he expendable for a price?... what might that price be?
if the preds ever got rid of tootoo, it would be the biggest PR nightmare this team ever dealt with.

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02-26-2011, 10:55 AM
  #427
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With Belak being waived I can't imagine us trading Tootoo, not because of PR but because of toughness in the lineup. Still need someone that has the ability to drop the gloves once in a while and last time I checked, he's it on the roster.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:59 AM
  #428
Boris Le Tigre
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Everyone talks about Tootoo's PR value but the fact is this. He's a 3rd/4th liner who is expendable with the talent in Milwaukee.

I'd love to ship him to a Canadian team. They are ALWAYS looking to make a move to pick up some scrappy players. Nashville has already put Sully on IR, Belak on waivers, and called up Halischuk and Geoffrion.

Looks like Friday was Nashville's 'Night of Long Knifes'.
Tootoo survives the purge for now. He seems to fit an organizational need for us.

Habs have Kostitsyn Sr. who is talented but not consistent and maybe not the best fit for the Habs style. The Habs need aggression and grit. We can part with some skill for that.

Kostitsyn can play on the top 6. Has a terrific shot and deceptive speed. He doesn't always bring his best effort, and backchecking is not his strong point.

There may need to be some tweaking to balance the deal. I'd do it one-for-one. But I'm not a GM

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02-26-2011, 11:03 AM
  #429
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I'd think about dealing Tootoo this summer, but not right now. Not unless it's part of something bigger.

As far as his PR value goes, I think it's been worn out. All those type of fans now have Fisher and Geoffrion to gush over

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02-26-2011, 11:04 AM
  #430
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As far as using O'Reilly as part of a piece to acquire Weiss, don't think that happens since he's on IR. Since we can't use him, what can we tempt Florida with to acquire Weiss?

Franson, Ellis + what else? Thinking either a forward or a goalie prospect. Not sure who. The only forward in our system that I'd say is a keeper is Beck, everyone else is available.

Before everyone gets upset about me thinking of moving Ellis, big deal. If Blum is ready, and by all accounts he is, Josi isn't far behind, that would leave one spot open with Suter, Weber, Klein, Josi and Blum. I can live with whoever number 6 is if those are my top 5.

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Old
02-26-2011, 11:05 AM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Everyone talks about Tootoo's PR value but the fact is this. He's a 3rd/4th liner who is expendable with the talent in Milwaukee.

I'd love to ship him to a Canadian team. They are ALWAYS looking to make a move to pick up some scrappy players. Nashville has already put Sully on IR, Belak on waivers, and called up Halischuk and Geoffrion.

Looks like Friday was Nashville's 'Night of Long Knifes'.
Completely agree. For me, a guy in that role either needs to be a little more of an offensive threat (which he's shown he isn't) or defensively good enough that he can be placed on a shutdown line(which he can't do either). I have felt as time has gone on and he hasn't shown to be either an offensive or defensive player, that his inability to fill either of those two roles means he's taking the place of somebody that could be better at one of those two skills. As far as "toughness and grittiness" that he represents, I fault the rest of the team for not doing their part.....


Last edited by Preds Partisan: 02-26-2011 at 11:11 AM.
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Old
02-26-2011, 11:10 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Panthers have a top notch goalie prospect ready to take over if and when they ship out Vokoun...which I expect them to do...but I like that deal involving Franson...Plus isn't Josi ready also to take the next step and fill that Sulzer role....Now this is wishful thinking if this were to happen. But this would be the best centers in Preds history
if I remember correctly, this goalie of the future, markstrom, is working on inconsistent year number two and had knee injury earlier int he month. if they ship vokoun off, I would think a tandem of clemmonsen and dex would be good until markstrom is ready, if he gets ready.

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Old
02-26-2011, 11:23 AM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
As far as using O'Reilly as part of a piece to acquire Weiss, don't think that happens since he's on IR. Since we can't use him, what can we tempt Florida with to acquire Weiss?

Franson, Ellis + what else? Thinking either a forward or a goalie prospect. Not sure who. The only forward in our system that I'd say is a keeper is Beck, everyone else is available.

Before everyone gets upset about me thinking of moving Ellis, big deal. If Blum is ready, and by all accounts he is, Josi isn't far behind, that would leave one spot open with Suter, Weber, Klein, Josi and Blum. I can live with whoever number 6 is if those are my top 5.
I think CalO can be traded even if on IR-- I thought that was allowed under the current CBA. If not, player to be named later should work.

I wouldn't trade Ellis and don't think Poile will. He slots in several (4?) years down the line and brings a particular talent that nobody in the system- maybe the league- provides if he pans out.

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02-26-2011, 11:42 AM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris Le Tigre View Post
Ahhheeemmm...

Take me to your leader. Greatings Preds fans I come in peace.

Does one, Jordan Tootoo, have a spot on your club for the foreseeable future...

or

is he expendable for a price?... what might that price be?
The dude just got out of rehab. Poile would never do that to a player.

I think Tootoo fills an organizational need, but I'm not sure he's an every day player for us, or any club for that matter. Still, the likelihood of us trading Jordin before the end of the season is incredibly slim.

As for Weiss, Florida needs a real incentive to part with him. We can't just toss out three mediocre players and say, "give us your best center." Ellis, Blum, or Josi would have to be involved, although I have no qualms about parting with Ellis if it lands us a player of Weiss' caliber.

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Old
02-26-2011, 11:54 AM
  #435
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Weiss = Legwand

Nobody would give us a prospect like Ellis for Legwand. Not saying Ellis will pan out but I fully expect Poile is going to wait and find out.

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02-26-2011, 12:48 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I was tweeting this last night. Had long discussions with a friend from Sweden and also David Singleton regarding Weiss. I just find it too coincidental that Poile has opened up $740k in cap space under the midpoint and as of last night Weiss carried a cap hit of $733k. That number will be down to $666k by the deadline which would give us plenty of room for callups if needed...

Weiss
Fisher
Legwand
Smithson

To me, that would be the strongest team of centers we've ever had and would truly strengthen us up the middle. It'd be quite the coup!

P.S. I believe Weiss, Fisher, and Legwand would all have 2 years remaining on their deals after this season. Legwand can move to wing and I like the stability that would show for our key FA's that they're committing to a team that is committed to the present and the future...
A fun discussion it was too.

I'm not near as excited at the prospects of acquiring Weiss as Seth. On the other hand, it does make the Predators very strong down the middle. I don't think anyone can deny that.

My question is whether it makes Nashville strong enough to contend for the money being spent there (not just Weiss, but the combination of Weiss, Lombardi, Legwand and Fisher)? I don't think it does- at least not consistently.

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Old
02-26-2011, 01:03 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Weiss = Legwand

Nobody would give us a prospect like Ellis for Legwand. Not saying Ellis will pan out but I fully expect Poile is going to wait and find out.
Legwand was once a prospect like Ellis. Weiss is younger than Leggy.

That said, I doubt Ellis is going. He'll be worth more once he dispels doubts about whether he can handle the NHL at his size. Of course if he can't at the high level some expect he'll be worth less, but you know Poile wants to prove he was right about that pick. (So do I. I have visions of a power play that works.)

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Old
02-26-2011, 03:41 PM
  #438
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One word. Scorer. This is no longer a question of is it practical its a question of the survival of this franchise. Missing the playoffs this year is unacceptable and detrimental to the success of resigning weber as well as breaking even for the year financially. No longer a question at least in my eyes. You already gave up a first rounder for fisher. Time to nut up or shut up.

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02-26-2011, 04:47 PM
  #439
glenngineer
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If we want a true legitimate scorer we're going to have to give something up of worth. Hope you all realize this. Problem is, what do we have to offer up? Can't move Dumont, Leggy or Erat because of NMC or NTC. Can't move Sully because no one wants an injured player. Fisher we just got so he's not going anywhere. Wilson is our future. SK is our offensive weapon up front on a consistent basis. Hornqvist just signed over the summer and he's the only guy we've got willing to go to the net.

So where does that leave us? Smithson, Ward, Spaling, Tootoo, Halischuk, Geoffrion, Klasen up front and after trading Sulzer, we can't trade any of our 6 that are back there now unless we get a defenseman back and the only players teams will want is Suter, Weber and Blum.

So tell me, how do we get a scorer with 3rd line grinders and a mish mash of 5/6 defensemen? No one wants to trade Ellis because he's going to be so good. I'll believe it when I see it. What else do we have that's an asset that we can acquire said scorer? We don't.

The only way it happens is if Dumont, Leggy or Erat decide to waive their clauses and are allowed to be moved and even then, who wants either of those three players even if we package them with Franson and a guy like Ellis?

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:49 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If we want a true legitimate scorer we're going to have to give something up of worth. Hope you all realize this. Problem is, what do we have to offer up? Can't move Dumont, Leggy or Erat because of NMC or NTC. Can't move Sully because no one wants an injured player. Fisher we just got so he's not going anywhere. Wilson is our future. SK is our offensive weapon up front on a consistent basis. Hornqvist just signed over the summer and he's the only guy we've got willing to go to the net.

So where does that leave us? Smithson, Ward, Spaling, Tootoo, Halischuk, Geoffrion, Klasen up front and after trading Sulzer, we can't trade any of our 6 that are back there now unless we get a defenseman back and the only players teams will want is Suter, Weber and Blum.

So tell me, how do we get a scorer with 3rd line grinders and a mish mash of 5/6 defensemen? No one wants to trade Ellis because he's going to be so good. I'll believe it when I see it. What else do we have that's an asset that we can acquire said scorer? We don't.

The only way it happens is if Dumont, Leggy or Erat decide to waive their clauses and are allowed to be moved and even then, who wants either of those three players even if we package them with Franson and a guy like Ellis?
Pittsburgh just got Kovalev for a 7th round pick, I'm sure we couldn't afford a 7th round pick, nor could we use a player like that...

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02-26-2011, 04:56 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Pittsburgh just got Kovalev for a 7th round pick, I'm sure we couldn't afford a 7th round pick, nor could we use a player like that...
Why would Kovalev waive his NTC to come here?

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02-26-2011, 05:06 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If we want a true legitimate scorer we're going to have to give something up of worth. Hope you all realize this. Problem is, what do we have to offer up?
.....
No one wants to trade Ellis because he's going to be so good. I'll believe it when I see it. What else do we have that's an asset that we can acquire said scorer? We don't.
I don't mind trading Ellis, just don't believe that Weiss is a game changer. We traded a 1st for Fisher but I didn't/don't believe he is a game changer. Two firsts+ was our offer for Kessel?-- I'd rather spend more and get more or do nothing than continue to build 2nd lines.

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02-26-2011, 06:00 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If we want a true legitimate scorer we're going to have to give something up of worth. Hope you all realize this. Problem is, what do we have to offer up? Can't move Dumont, Leggy or Erat because of NMC or NTC. Can't move Sully because no one wants an injured player. Fisher we just got so he's not going anywhere. Wilson is our future. SK is our offensive weapon up front on a consistent basis. Hornqvist just signed over the summer and he's the only guy we've got willing to go to the net.

So where does that leave us? Smithson, Ward, Spaling, Tootoo, Halischuk, Geoffrion, Klasen up front and after trading Sulzer, we can't trade any of our 6 that are back there now unless we get a defenseman back and the only players teams will want is Suter, Weber and Blum.

So tell me, how do we get a scorer with 3rd line grinders and a mish mash of 5/6 defensemen? No one wants to trade Ellis because he's going to be so good. I'll believe it when I see it. What else do we have that's an asset that we can acquire said scorer? We don't.

The only way it happens is if Dumont, Leggy or Erat decide to waive their clauses and are allowed to be moved and even then, who wants either of those three players even if we package them with Franson and a guy like Ellis?
Even if the Three Amigos waived their clauses no would give us anything for them anyways they aren't worth it

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02-26-2011, 06:02 PM
  #444
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I don't mind trading Ellis, just don't believe that Weiss is a game changer. We traded a 1st for Fisher but I didn't/don't believe he is a game changer. Two firsts+ was our offer for Kessel?-- I'd rather spend more and get more or do nothing than continue to build 2nd lines.
He's the only real one that's available and at a relatively nice price at 3.5ml for the next two years

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02-26-2011, 06:16 PM
  #445
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He's the only real one that's available and at a relatively nice price at 3.5ml for the next two years
Was Stewart or Neal available? Any right GM that had a prospect like Ryan Ellis wouldnt trade him for Stephen Weiss. Your getting a damn good return, you might have to add just a bit but not as much as people seem to believe. It frustrates me cause Poile has the pieces to make a move to get what we need but he is to cautious to do it. He says he likes our roster but we have players that simply shouldnt be on the roster and players that are not going to be here next year. He has so many options to trade but he waited to long and now injuries to other players have affected our ability to make moves. But he still has the assets to get a top line, top 3, sniper, dangler, point per game, player! I really dont Weiss we dont need him, we have a team full of players like him.

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02-26-2011, 06:29 PM
  #446
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Was Stewart or Neal available? Any right GM that had a prospect like Ryan Ellis wouldnt trade him for Stephen Weiss. Your getting a damn good return, you might have to add just a bit but not as much as people seem to believe. It frustrates me cause Poile has the pieces to make a move to get what we need but he is to cautious to do it. He says he likes our roster but we have players that simply shouldnt be on the roster and players that are not going to be here next year. He has so many options to trade but he waited to long and now injuries to other players have affected our ability to make moves. But he still has the assets to get a top line, top 3, sniper, dangler, point per game, player! I really dont Weiss we dont need him, we have a team full of players like him.
Tell me what pieces he has to get a top 3 scorer? I'd love to hear this.

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02-26-2011, 06:31 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Tell me what pieces he has to get a top 3 scorer? I'd love to hear this.
Ellis, Blum, Josi, Watson, NJ's 2nd, Franson, Ward, other prospects, future 1st's, and he could trade some of the roster players for the right deal. Plenty of options

Edit: forgot goalies. Pickard, Dekanich, Lindback, Smith! Gimme a break we have a lot of assets!

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02-26-2011, 06:42 PM
  #448
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Ellis, Blum, Josi, Watson, NJ's 2nd, Franson, Ward, other prospects, future 1st's, and he could trade some of the roster players for the right deal. Plenty of options

Edit: forgot goalies. Pickard, Dekanich, Lindback, Smith! Gimme a break we have a lot of assets!
Really? Those assets will land us a top 3 forward? How do you figure. Every single one of the guys mentioned is a prospect and hasn't done jack in the NHL. What GM in their right mind is going to give up a top 3 forward for any of those guys yet a package of them?

Blum looked good for 3 games but we need him in the lineup right now. Josi is slotted for the team next year more than likely. Ellis is at least a year away and there is no guarantee he's going to be anything. Watson was a mid round pick with defensive specialist written all over him. NJ's 2nd is looking like what? Franson is worse than a bag of pucks right now. Ward is useless fodder. All the goalies we have? Decks is going to be an UFA. Pickard is a bust so far. Lindback is our backup. Smith sucks.

We have a ton of assets, yes. We have a ton of crappy assets that will not net us a top 3 forward. The only way it happens is if we give up someone like Suter, Weber, Wilson, SK or Hornqvist. Those are our assets. You have to give to get. Quantity does not equal quality.

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02-26-2011, 06:44 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Tell me what pieces he has to get a top 3 scorer? I'd love to hear this.
Hamhuis for one. Oh wait, already squandered that last year.

1st rd pick. Oh wait, already used that to overpay for Fisher.

Glaude Giroux. Oh wait, already traded that draft pick for Brendan Witt.

Jordan Eberle. Oh wait, we used that pick to select Chet Pickard who has no value now.
--------

You are right though. We don't have as many assets as we used to have, and it will difficult to get a significant piece back unless we trade one of our few roster players of value (Hornqvist,Wilson, Weber, Suter, Rinne, maybe Lindack).

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02-26-2011, 08:40 PM
  #450
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