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pyatt vs dawes

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Old
02-25-2011, 07:21 PM
  #26
Erika
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Neither.... As both are not NHL caliber players...

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02-25-2011, 07:31 PM
  #27
Beaker
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Who's this Pyatt everyone speaks of? Never seen him.

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02-25-2011, 11:32 PM
  #28
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Saw Dawes play tonight . And he could be on the 3rd line or 4th line . He looked pretty good out on the ice . And Avtsin ! If this guy learns how to play smarter he will be an amazing player . He has golden hands.

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Old
02-26-2011, 09:54 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Mattyb View Post
Easy thread which player would you rather have playing on your bottom lines?
not even close...

Pyatt serves a specific role, and while it may not be "sexy" he is very effective at it.

Dawes would be a downgrade in that role, isn't physical, isn't effective enough in any other potential role to add anything of value to the lineup.

I hope we don't see Dawes getting the call-up unless we're decimated by injuries, and even then he'd better be after some of the other players already in Hamilton.

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02-26-2011, 10:14 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
not even close...

Pyatt serves a specific role, and while it may not be "sexy" he is very effective at it.

Dawes would be a downgrade in that role, isn't physical, isn't effective enough in any other potential role to add anything of value to the lineup.

I hope we don't see Dawes getting the call-up unless we're decimated by injuries, and even then he'd better be after some of the other players already in Hamilton.
Have you ever seen dawes play ? Were you at the game yesterday ? He has 28 goals this season. And could turn into a DD if he would work at it. He was one of the better players on the team. And you are telling me that we don't put him in on a team that is not able to score any goals. Yea thanks pyatt for your 1 goal this season but we won't be needing you.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:19 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Have you ever seen dawes play ? Were you at the game yesterday ? He has 28 goals this season. And could turn into a DD if he would work at it. He was one of the better players on the team. And you are telling me that we don't put him in on a team that is not able to score any goals. Yea thanks pyatt for your 1 goal this season but we won't be needing you.
Come on, Dawes is a bottom line player. DD has top 6 written all over on him.

But back to Pyatt vs Dawes, for some reason, Pyatt gets a lot of backing (I've debated this issue in the past).My only explanation is that we all find an underdog to cheer for, and some have chosen Pyatt.

To not want to give Dawes a shot because of Pyatt though is ridiculous though. He'd definitely put up better numbers to compensate for the slightly lower level defensive play.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:24 AM
  #32
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I was at the Bell Center yesterday. Dawes has a quick release and has decent speed to carry the puck. But he didn't do much in the defensive zone. I don't think he can help us much.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:25 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Come on, Dawes is a bottom line player. DD has top 6 written all over on him.
But back to Pyatt vs Dawes, for some reason, Pyatt gets a lot of backing (I've debated this issue in the past).My only explanation is that we all find an underdog to cheer for, and some have chosen Pyatt.

To not want to give Dawes a shot because of Pyatt though is ridiculous though. He'd definitely put up better numbers to compensate for the slightly lower level defensive play.
Really?

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02-26-2011, 10:37 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Really?
Yes, 2nd line center or at the very least 3rd line center with ability to produce like crazy on the PP

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:40 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Yes, 2nd line center or at the very least 3rd line center with ability to produce like crazy on the PP
Once gomez is out of the way.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:42 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Really?
I have my doubts too, but I think it's possible he enjoys a carer like Steve Sullivan for example

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:55 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Really?
Considering his 0.57 PPG (4th behind Patches, Pleks, and Cammy) and his PROD RATE (approximately 21:50 which is 1st on the team), I'd say he's looking pretty damn good.

8 PTS, +2 in his last 8 GP.

Oh, have I mentioned he has the second best faceoff % of regular centers on this team (and the best of regular centers right now; he's behind Halpern who is playing wing and Pyatt) with a 52.9%.

Oh, did I mention he's a rookie that would apparently never make it to the NHL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterD View Post
I have my doubts too, but I think it's possible he enjoys a carer like Steve Sullivan for example
Steve Sullivan .. a pretty good 1st line center or elite 2nd line center?

If Desharnais has a career like Sully, he's doing pretty damn good for himself.

A career 0.77PPG just under 900GP is pretty amazing.

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:13 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Considering his 0.57 PPG (4th behind Patches, Pleks, and Cammy) and his PROD RATE (approximately 21:50 which is 1st on the team), I'd say he's looking pretty damn good.

8 PTS, +2 in his last 8 GP.

Oh, have I mentioned he has the second best faceoff % of regular centers on this team (and the best of regular centers right now; he's behind Halpern who is playing wing and Pyatt) with a 52.9%.

Oh, did I mention he's a rookie that would apparently never make it to the NHL?


Steve Sullivan .. a pretty good 1st line center or elite 2nd line center?

If Desharnais has a career like Sully, he's doing pretty damn good for himself.

A career 0.77PPG just under 900GP is pretty amazing.
I picked Steve Sullivan because he's a decently fast, small center with great vision. I think Sully is more of a scorer and Desharnais a playmaker, but nevertheless I could see Desharnais become a vry good 2nd line center on a weaker team and get lots of ice time on the PP.

We have to remember where Sullivan played: the Leafs, the Hawks during their suckage years and Nashville... not much pressure (Toronto is a big market, but they never had a huge successful team), not expected to win the cup, etc.

I'm not sure how Desharnais is going to make a spot for himself here with Pleks and Gomez, especially considering how Gomez's salary makes him hard to move, and the fact that they're both smaller centers... but I'm sure he has a place somewhere in the league.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
not even close...

Pyatt serves a specific role, and while it may not be "sexy" he is very effective at it.

Dawes would be a downgrade in that role, isn't physical, isn't effective enough in any other potential role to add anything of value to the lineup.

I hope we don't see Dawes getting the call-up unless we're decimated by injuries, and even then he'd better be after some of the other players already in Hamilton.
Tonight is another perfect example.

Pyatt was the most reliable player on his line tonight.

He did his job quietly, no brain farts in his own zone like Ryan White, no stupid penalties like Desharnais, and no neutral zone turnovers like Pouliot often makes.

Team Record so far this year:

Without Pyatt.........5-9-1
With Pyatt............28-14-6

Granted he is far, far from the only reason we won lots of those games, but obviously he is not hurting the team when he plays. Even his critics should be forced to admit that.

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02-27-2011, 12:36 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Considering his 0.57 PPG (4th behind Patches, Pleks, and Cammy) and his PROD RATE (approximately 21:50 which is 1st on the team), I'd say he's looking pretty damn good.

8 PTS, +2 in his last 8 GP.

Oh, have I mentioned he has the second best faceoff % of regular centers on this team (and the best of regular centers right now; he's behind Halpern who is playing wing and Pyatt) with a 52.9%.

Oh, did I mention he's a rookie that would apparently never make it to the NHL?


Steve Sullivan .. a pretty good 1st line center or elite 2nd line center?

If Desharnais has a career like Sully, he's doing pretty damn good for himself.

A career 0.77PPG just under 900GP is pretty amazing.
this needs major quotage in every DD thread imo

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Old
02-27-2011, 12:40 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Dawes is better but I want neither in the line-up. I prefer White
this
plus Pyatt belongs in AHL

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Old
02-27-2011, 12:50 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post

Granted he is far, far from the only reason we won lots of those games, but obviously he is not hurting the team when he plays. Even his critics should be forced to admit that.
Just because he has mastered the risk-free / take no chances make no mistakes hockey does not mean he is not hurting this team.

I rather a player take a dumb penalty or cough up the puck on occasion but at least provide more " spark '' to his team, be it with a hit, battle in the corner, sticking up for a teammate, or hell, SCORING more than 3 goals (and 6 assists) in 88 games... There are useless enforcers that produce more than him.

And his PK abilities are vastly overrated... Not saying he isn't good, but it's nothing to brag about.

I also find amusing how his lack of production is completely ignored by his supporters and brushed off as ' well, he's on the 4th line, he's a defensive specialist etc ' BS. There's no excuse for a 4th line player whose biggest assets are speed to have scored only 3 goals in 88 games, when said player doesn't fight, and actually produces in the AHL at a top 6 level.... You know what this says to me?

It says he's not NHL material or just not surrounded with right guys on this team... So let this career 4th liner ''flourish'' elsewhere, he's as replaceable as one can get.


Last edited by coolasprICE: 02-27-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
02-27-2011, 05:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Just because he has mastered the risk-free / take no chances make no mistakes hockey does not mean he is not hurting this team.

I rather a player take a dumb penalty or cough up the puck on occasion but at least provide more " spark '' to his team, be it with a hit, battle in the corner, sticking up for a teammate, or hell, SCORING more than 3 goals (and 6 assists) in 88 games... There are useless enforcers that produce more than him.

And his PK abilities are vastly overrated... Not saying he isn't good, but it's nothing to brag about.

I also find amusing how his lack of production is completely ignored by his supporters and brushed off as ' well, he's on the 4th line, he's a defensive specialist etc ' BS. There's no excuse for a 4th line player whose biggest assets are speed to have scored only 3 goals in 88 games, when said player doesn't fight, and actually produces in the AHL at a top 6 level.... You know what this says to me?

It says he's not NHL material or just not surrounded with right guys on this team... So let this career 4th liner ''flourish'' elsewhere, he's as replaceable as one can get.
You are basically saying that despite his lack of mistakes and his defensive reliability, Pyatt is hurting the team.

However, I have shown you that taking him out of the lineup has NOT helped the team whatsoever.

Habs are 5-9-1 when Pyatt does not play, and 28-14-6 when he does play. If the amateur critics were right, and he were hurting us in a real but "hard to see" way, then we would not be doing much WORSE when he is sat out.

Once again, Tom Pyatt played third line minutes in the playoffs last year and every NHL-savvy observer took time to mention how he was helping his team.

If you think we need a bigger spark from the fourth liners, that's fine. Replace Travis Moen with someone who is not a zombie like he is, and get someone quicker and tougher than Jeff Halpern to play fourth line centre. Meanwhile we should use Pyatt to his strengths, playing him more over guys more prone to turnovers like Pouliot, Kostisyn and even Cammalleri in the dying minutes of a game in which we are leading.

That is exactly how he was used against Washington and Pittsburgh last year and he helped the team win important games.

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Old
02-27-2011, 05:28 PM
  #44
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You guys serious? You DO NO WANT Dawes playing for your team. He's a fat, pudgy little defensive liability.

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02-27-2011, 05:38 PM
  #45
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If Pyatt doesn't learn how to score a bit, he will be out of the league very soon. He's not an NHL caliber player to me for that reason.

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Old
02-27-2011, 05:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
You guys serious? You DO NO WANT Dawes playing for your team. He's a fat, pudgy little defensive liability.
Yes, I've seen the same when he played for the flames. My initial reaction to getting Dawes was 'lol'.

But I still would like to give him a shot to see if he'd fit in as a 4th liner limited role... who knows, maybe all that AHL time did him some good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
You are basically saying that despite his lack of mistakes and his defensive reliability, Pyatt is hurting the team.

However, I have shown you that taking him out of the lineup has NOT helped the team whatsoever.

Habs are 5-9-1 when Pyatt does not play, and 28-14-6 when he does play. If the amateur critics were right, and he were hurting us in a real but "hard to see" way, then we would not be doing much WORSE when he is sat out.

Once again, Tom Pyatt played third line minutes in the playoffs last year and every NHL-savvy observer took time to mention how he was helping his team.

If you think we need a bigger spark from the fourth liners, that's fine. Replace Travis Moen with someone who is not a zombie like he is, and get someone quicker and tougher than Jeff Halpern to play fourth line centre. Meanwhile we should use Pyatt to his strengths, playing him more over guys more prone to turnovers like Pouliot, Kostisyn and even Cammalleri in the dying minutes of a game in which we are leading.

That is exactly how he was used against Washington and Pittsburgh last year and he helped the team win important games.
Look, we'll be spinning in circles debating Pyatt, truth is, I don't think he's significant enough to even bother debating about.

You like him, you think he makes this team into a winner. I don't really think he plays any significant role.

To each his own opinion.

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Old
02-27-2011, 06:25 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
You guys serious? You DO NO WANT Dawes playing for your team. He's a fat, pudgy little defensive liability.
He's our Grabner, don't be jealous. I think he's for Hamilton since so many of our prospects were called up.

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Old
02-27-2011, 06:25 PM
  #48
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Dawes is a 3rd line winger, so he shouldn't be on the 4th line, period.

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Old
02-27-2011, 11:26 PM
  #49
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I liked Dawes on Friday, but I agree that he shouldn't be playing on the big team yet. He was pretty quick and hand some nice moves, but the guy didn't have enough strength to make any successful hits, he'd just bounce back from players and as said.. he's not that smart defensively. Id much rather keep Pyatt who has a role and does it well.

But Palusjah, man that guy impressed me on Friday! Great hands, speed and vision!

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Old
02-28-2011, 12:04 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
You are basically saying that despite his lack of mistakes and his defensive reliability, Pyatt is hurting the team.
Pyatt seems have something personal against goals. He is determined that while he is on the ice no goals are scored. Unlucky for us, he began by making sure that his own team doesn't score. That does leave him free to try prevent the other team from scoring, in which he does do a decent job - but not a great job.

In other words, Pyatt's above-average defensive ability comes at too high price to the rest of his game.

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