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Players who were one win away from the HHOF

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Old
02-20-2011, 08:53 AM
  #26
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by steve141 View Post
Osgood had a .930 save percentage in the 2008 playoffs and a .920 in the 2009. On top of that some of his best performances were in close games where he was a deciding factor. Those numbers are definitely Conn Smythe level.

(For comparison, the greatest playoff goaltender ever, Patrick Roy, had a .934 save percentage in his best playoff, and only .002 more than Osgood over his career. I am obviously not saying that Osgood played on a Roy level, only that Osgood was very, very good)


For what it's worth, I actually chose my words very carefully. I did not say that I personally would have voted for him, only that it would have been hard keeping him out with another cup and a Conn Smythe. Personally, I think Osgood's career is overrated and would have picked Zetterberg for the Conn Smythe both years.
Agree with the last paragraph.

However, I find that save % is something that only tells half the story. In the 2008 final Osgood shut out the Pens in the first two games. On paper that looks amazing but when watching the games with your eyes you realized that the Pens were totally outclassed those games and the system Detroit had didn't let the Pens get very many shots on net and if so it wasn't any quality chances. Even after those first two games you never thought that Osgood was the reason the Wings won, or even the 2nd reason. This is something that followed Osgood his whole career with the Wings. Some people call him underrated, I call it how I saw it, an average (perhaps slightly above average goalie) in the right situation who was never called upon to steal a game or a series.

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02-20-2011, 09:22 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Agree with the last paragraph.

However, I find that save % is something that only tells half the story. In the 2008 final Osgood shut out the Pens in the first two games. On paper that looks amazing but when watching the games with your eyes you realized that the Pens were totally outclassed those games and the system Detroit had didn't let the Pens get very many shots on net and if so it wasn't any quality chances. Even after those first two games you never thought that Osgood was the reason the Wings won, or even the 2nd reason. This is something that followed Osgood his whole career with the Wings. Some people call him underrated, I call it how I saw it, an average (perhaps slightly above average goalie) in the right situation who was never called upon to steal a game or a series.
Osgood was pretty sick in 2008 and 2009 playoffs. Not saying he is a HHOFer but he was far better than and average or slightly above average goalie in those playoff years. He was pretty fantastic, and a huge factor to the Wings making the final and winning the Cup.

Now in last years finals both goalies were not a factor and were not very good at all.

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02-20-2011, 10:58 AM
  #28
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Damn, I had a pretty long post that never appeared...

This said, Mark Howe and Doug Gilmour would be in if they won one more game in 1987 and 1993, respectively.

Gilmour would still have only one Cup to his resume, but we're talking about a Montreal-Toronto final here. Hopefully both guys make it, but I think they would already be in with those victories.

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02-20-2011, 11:00 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
possibly flash hollett if DRW had won game 7 in '45, after trailing 0-3 in the series. hollett would have 3 rings and was one of the highest scoring d-men of the era.
probably would not be inducted, though.
Hollett has been kept out because of politics, so I'm not sure he would be in.

This said, 3 rings + his scoring totals would make him much harder to overlook later.

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02-21-2011, 07:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Damn, I had a pretty long post that never appeared...

This said, Mark Howe and Doug Gilmour would be in if they won one more game in 1987 and 1993, respectively.

Gilmour would still have only one Cup to his resume, but we're talking about a Montreal-Toronto final here. Hopefully both guys make it, but I think they would already be in with those victories.
Gilmour was one babysitter away from the HHOF. It's a travesty that he's not in yet.

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02-21-2011, 10:22 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Osgood was pretty sick in 2008 and 2009 playoffs. Not saying he is a HHOFer but he was far better than and average or slightly above average goalie in those playoff years. He was pretty fantastic, and a huge factor to the Wings making the final and winning the Cup.

Now in last years finals both goalies were not a factor and were not very good at all.
Re-watch the 2008 final. Osgood didn't have to do a whole lot. Now in 2009 he was better in a losing cause I will agree

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02-22-2011, 12:10 AM
  #32
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Re-watch the 2008 final. Osgood didn't have to do a whole lot. Now in 2009 he was better in a losing cause I will agree
Osgood flat-out saved an incredible Red Wings team that was looking straight at a first round exit at the hands of Nashville.

Hasek was bad that series, and the team in front of him was reflecting that lack of confidence. Osgood came in and played great, not just "good enough" and it allowed the Wings to play their game, without looking back.

Osgood's performance in 08 was nothing short of great and clutch.

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02-22-2011, 01:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
Osgood flat-out saved an incredible Red Wings team that was looking straight at a first round exit at the hands of Nashville.

Hasek was bad that series, and the team in front of him was reflecting that lack of confidence. Osgood came in and played great, not just "good enough" and it allowed the Wings to play their game, without looking back.

Osgood's performance in 08 was nothing short of great and clutch.
hasek sucked vs nashville, but still won games 1 and 2 by 2g, which shows how one sided that series was. DRW vastly outplayed nashville. would have been a sweep with a mediocre goalie.

imo, saying osgood prevented a 1st round loss is the same as saying every winning goalie prevents a loss, b/c goalie is the most important position. osgood was not close to stealing the series or any game.

shots on goal overstate the play, since DRW have taken large numbers of perimeter shots for a long time, but DRW often had twice as many shots.

game 1: 40-20
game 2: 38-27
game 3: 26-29
game 4: 41-27
game 5: 54-21
game 6: 43-20

total: 242-144

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
Zetterberg's performance in the 2009 playoffs might have been more impressive than his previous year's Conn Smythe performance. Pavel Datsyuk struggled offensively during much of the 2009 playoffs, even before he missed 7 games with a foot injury. Marian Hossa scored 40 goals in the regular season, then promptly turned into Marcel Hossa after the first round. Zetterberg and Johan Franzen carried Detroit's offense, especially during the first three rounds. Obviously, Zetterberg drew the monstrous task of shadowing Sidney Crosby during the Cup Finals. That task is difficult enough for any forward, and becomes downright insane when that forward is also expected to be his team's primary source of offense. It does help when the greatest defenseman of this generation was also on the ice against Crosby, but Zetterberg's physical play clearly took Crosby off his game to the point of open frustration. It was one of the greatest shutdown performances in Cup Finals history.

I don't believe that Zetterberg would have been punished for winning the Smythe the previous year. If anything, he might have garnered more votes for doing what he did with very, very little help from Pavel Datsyuk. That said, no one truly has any idea what the usually unpredictable Conn Smythe voters would have done. It might have been Fedorov-Vernon from 1997 all over again, although that was probably a result of the Russian factor.
in addition to their injuries, datsyuk and hossa did not score much partly b/c they played together. they had negative chemistry throughout the season, and both were better on separate lines. imo, it was a stupid move by babcock to put them together again at the end of the season. as soon as they were put together near the end of the season, their scoring declined.

both of them played well defensively, though, especially datsyuk. datsyuk created chances fairly well vs anaheim, but could not finish at all. imo, hossa was better vs chicago than CBJ.

i have no idea why you think zetterberg is a physical player. his great positioning frustrates, not his (low level) physicality.

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02-22-2011, 02:27 PM
  #34
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The Wings lost series still outshooting their opponents 2 to 1, with better goalies than Hasek in his final year.
I noticed the team just played a lot more calm and confident once Osgood stepped in.
I guess your point is any mediocre goalie could have stepped in and the Wings would have won that series? Maybe, but I do not think so... Osgood did do it, and he ended up posting numbers well over a mediocre goalie that post-season.

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02-22-2011, 08:27 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
The Wings lost series still outshooting their opponents 2 to 1, with better goalies than Hasek in his final year.
I noticed the team just played a lot more calm and confident once Osgood stepped in.
I guess your point is any mediocre goalie could have stepped in and the Wings would have won that series? Maybe, but I do not think so... Osgood did do it, and he ended up posting numbers well over a mediocre goalie that post-season.
I don't think Osgood has ever been considered mediocre. He's always elicited this response when someone is asked about him:

"What do you think of Osgood as a goalie?"

"He's.......meh.....(shrug).......good."

He can be best described as a caretaker rather than a difference maker throughout his career.

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02-26-2011, 03:11 PM
  #36
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See, that right there is a problem. Bure' was flashy, a creative offensive player when he "wanted" to be, and also a guy who occasionally but not always rose to the moment. Character is a consideration as well, and lets just say his "choice of friends" off the ice was "questionable" ?. Not even in contention IMO.
Just a quick look at his career stats showed that he wanted to be a flashy, creative offensive player for the vast majority of his career. And its not like his exceptional career averages were spurred on by a few anomaly seasons. His career is a model of offensive consistency. Sure he may not have had that traditional grinder/work hard every shift attitude but he still made things happen almost every time he was on the ice. If there is on thing that hurt his career it was injuries and the fact that he never was able to fill out his stats the way they should have been. This is a 437 goal scorer who had he only missed 66 games over his 13 year career would have hit 1000 games in that span and likely would have scored over 600 goals in 13 seasons. Who knows what would have happened had he played even longer than that without injuries. he should/could have been a legitimate 700+ goal scorer.

i say he should get in.

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02-27-2011, 01:42 PM
  #37
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Just a quick look at his career stats showed that he wanted to be a flashy, creative offensive player for the vast majority of his career. And its not like his exceptional career averages were spurred on by a few anomaly seasons. His career is a model of offensive consistency. Sure he may not have had that traditional grinder/work hard every shift attitude but he still made things happen almost every time he was on the ice. If there is on thing that hurt his career it was injuries and the fact that he never was able to fill out his stats the way they should have been. This is a 437 goal scorer who had he only missed 66 games over his 13 year career would have hit 1000 games in that span and likely would have scored over 600 goals in 13 seasons. Who knows what would have happened had he played even longer than that without injuries. he should/could have been a legitimate 700+ goal scorer.

i say he should get in.
But you can't judge a player on "woulda, shoulda, couldas". I believe Cam Neely got into the HHOF based on "projection" of what he "could" have done had he been healthy. You judge a player by what he did on the ice, plain and simple. If he's hurt how can he be rewarded? For example this year Crosby was walking away with the scoring race until he got hurt. It was his own fault and now he's out for the last two months. He won't win the scoring title or the MVP. He probably "would" have done it but I can't reward a guy for what he might have done. You are a great player by proving it on the ice not in the press box

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02-27-2011, 02:48 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
But you can't judge a player on "woulda, shoulda, couldas". I believe Cam Neely got into the HHOF based on "projection" of what he "could" have done had he been healthy. You judge a player by what he did on the ice, plain and simple. If he's hurt how can he be rewarded? For example this year Crosby was walking away with the scoring race until he got hurt. It was his own fault and now he's out for the last two months. He won't win the scoring title or the MVP. He probably "would" have done it but I can't reward a guy for what he might have done. You are a great player by proving it on the ice not in the press box
For the record Bure should be in the hall as he is a better candidate than Neely IMO. There is always an element of some "shoulda, woulda, coulda" especially with playoffs records involved and to some extent goalies who also benefit from their teams and situations more than positional players do.

There are too many players who are over rated due to their team situations rather than on what they actually did and how good they really were (Lafleur and Dionne is the most obvious example here fro me). Also the emphasis on winning the Stanley Cup in a larger league, compared to a 6 team one, gets missed by some of the voters as well IMO.

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