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Sacramento Kings on the way out?

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:41 PM
  #1
Professor Pickles
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Sacramento Kings on the way out?

NBA's Kings are reportedly ready to move. That would mean there is no tennant in the arena. Sacramento has popped up as a name for possible ECHL expansion; does the empty arena help get another team in CA?

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02-21-2011, 03:48 PM
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Sacramento Sludge babies

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02-21-2011, 06:19 PM
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It's possible. Looking at the arena seating charts, they have an awkward set up. The rink would actually be perpendicular to how they set it up for basketball and to make room for the rink there would be a ton of open space unless they got custom seating sections for the hockey/ice shows/indoor football/indoor soccer set up.




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02-21-2011, 06:33 PM
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I don't wanna sound like a debbie downer but I would love to see them join the AHL(isn't that what's holding San Diego back, they want AHL and will accept nothing lower? thats what i've heard anyway at one point) If you could get the AHL to move some of it's way too many teams out East to out West to join Abbotsford you would finally have the dreams of AHL Out West.

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02-21-2011, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
I don't wanna sound like a debbie downer but I would love to see them join the AHL(isn't that what's holding San Diego back, they want AHL and will accept nothing lower? thats what i've heard anyway at one point) If you could get the AHL to move some of it's way too many teams out East to out West to join Abbotsford you would finally have the dreams of AHL Out West.
the only problem is would Elmira survive losing Anaheim, jackalsfan1, bc the Ducks seem satisfied w/ Syracuse, and Bakersfield's already been tried, and Ontario and Stockton are w/ other clubs.

what's holding San Diego back is the same issue that's threatening the Chargers @ the Q there, the lack of a newer arena, the same thing which is why ARCO is being cast aside.... there's no room for a Sacramento AHL Franchise unless someone buys Stockton or Bakersfield (Ontario is under Kings control) or if Anaheim buys an existing franchise, something they've never done.

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02-21-2011, 09:15 PM
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There is also discussion over on Business of Hockey Forum: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=880577

As for Arco Arena... There is no working ice plant, so assume tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars required for new plant and any refurbishment.

Stockton would not be too happy with a competitor about 30 minutes away.

Don't see it happening.

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02-22-2011, 01:30 AM
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No working ice plant? ARCO hosted two Disney on Ice shows today. Did they bring their our temporary system?

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02-22-2011, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panda Bolt View Post
No working ice plant? ARCO hosted two Disney on Ice shows today. Did they bring their our temporary system?


I was told that the ice plant was not working so that was one reason why the Sharks stopped doing pre-season games out there.

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02-22-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the only problem is would Elmira survive losing Anaheim, jackalsfan1, bc the Ducks seem satisfied w/ Syracuse, and Bakersfield's already been tried, and Ontario and Stockton are w/ other clubs.

what's holding San Diego back is the same issue that's threatening the Chargers @ the Q there, the lack of a newer arena, the same thing which is why ARCO is being cast aside.... there's no room for a Sacramento AHL Franchise unless someone buys Stockton or Bakersfield (Ontario is under Kings control) or if Anaheim buys an existing franchise, something they've never done.
Would we survive? I couldn't tell you. We are also affiliated with Bingo/Ottawa. We have been for the last 3 years(well kind of, not so much the first ECHL season) We were affiliated with Columbus/Syracuse the first year. That was basically a useless affiliation. We were also affiliated with Syracuse/Columbus in the early UHL days(though that was pretty much a paper affiliation with no real involvement) I'm weary of Anahiem because of the track record with affiliates, I can't say they've had a good run at it.

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02-22-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Would we survive? I couldn't tell you. We are also affiliated with Bingo/Ottawa. We have been for the last 3 years(well kind of, not so much the first ECHL season) We were affiliated with Columbus/Syracuse the first year. That was basically a useless affiliation. We were also affiliated with Syracuse/Columbus in the early UHL days(though that was pretty much a paper affiliation with no real involvement) I'm weary of Anahiem because of the track record with affiliates, I can't say they've had a good run at it.
WHAT TRACK RECORD, Anaheim couldn't foresee the incident w/ Iowa, jackalsfan1, otherwise they've been a straight-forward organization affiliate-wise....

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02-22-2011, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
WHAT TRACK RECORD, Anaheim couldn't foresee the incident w/ Iowa, jackalsfan1, otherwise they've been a straight-forward organization affiliate-wise....
Well they have bounced around a bit. Off the top of my head I can think of Cincinnati(didn't they actually share them with Detroit?) and of course Portland. I guess i'm just in favor of the relationships like a Hartford/NYR or what Rochester and Buffalo used to have(eventhough i'm not a Sabres/Rangers fan) It seems loyal and stable in a sense to show the types of commitments these 2 showed at one point(obviously being that Buffalo is no longer the parent club in Rochester)

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02-22-2011, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Well they have bounced around a bit. Off the top of my head I can think of Cincinnati(didn't they actually share them with Detroit?) and of course Portland. I guess i'm just in favor of the relationships like a Hartford/NYR or what Rochester and Buffalo used to have(eventhough i'm not a Sabres/Rangers fan) It seems loyal and stable in a sense to show the types of commitments these 2 showed at one point(obviously being that Buffalo is no longer the parent club in Rochester)

jackalsfan1:

Detroit's was only SHORT-LIVED because Rossford never got off the ground, Even Cincinnati is well-documented....

That's more on Rochester than Buffalo because what franchise wants to have terms dictated to them.... that's wht ROC did to BUF, and in essence has been doing even before Florida got there.... can you blame Buffalo for finally saying no more.

CT (AS Hartford is now known as) is still owned by MSG, it's just being marketed by Baldwin, and really no one expects once the novelty of the Whale finally wears off, will that franchise survive

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02-22-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
jackalsfan1:

Detroit's was only SHORT-LIVED because Rossford never got off the ground, Even Cincinnati is well-documented....

That's more on Rochester than Buffalo because what franchise wants to have terms dictated to them.... that's wht ROC did to BUF, and in essence has been doing even before Florida got there.... can you blame Buffalo for finally saying no more.

CT (AS Hartford is now known as) is still owned by MSG, it's just being marketed by Baldwin, and really no one expects once the novelty of the Whale finally wears off, will that franchise survive
I remember reading somewhere awhile back that Baldwin hopes to bring the Hartford Whalers back in the NHL.

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02-23-2011, 06:37 PM
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Dragging this back on topic before Hutch and jf1 vortex it into the ground...

I suppose it depends on how much the arena managers would 1) ask for in terms of the cost of the lease, and 2) be willing to put in/fix permanent ice for a team. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see ARCO just slowly crumble, and only really be home to concerts and the occasional "one off" event.

Plus, IIRC, the arena is pretty far from the central population centers of the area, and while people may have been willing to drive out of their way for the NBA, I would imagine they're far less likely to do so for the ECHL, and perhaps even the AHL.

As for a westward migration for the AHL, I'm not holding my breath - certainly not THIS off-season. Heck, I'm betting that the Flames give up on Abbotsford after this season (with their history of two-and-out after leaving Saint John), which would make it even harder to justify teams moving out West without synchronizing three or four moves.

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02-26-2011, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panda Bolt View Post
No working ice plant? ARCO hosted two Disney on Ice shows today. Did they bring their our temporary system?
My understanding of ice shows is yes, they bring their own refrigerator system with them to guarantee the consistency of the ice. Those figure skaters like it soft and springy (around 20 F) versus the hard ice for hockey players (around 0 F) to dig in.

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02-26-2011, 11:13 PM
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I could see KC as a new AHL city. San Diego may be an AHL city some day, but it will be a few years unless they get the team from Abbotsford. They would be closer to the Texas teams than BC.

Hans is correct that they need a few teams out west to make it work. Maybe SLC with SD, the 3 Texas teams, KC and OKC could be a division. If the Coyotes move, than Phoenix could be in the mix.

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02-27-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
I could see KC as a new AHL city. San Diego may be an AHL city some day, but it will be a few years unless they get the team from Abbotsford. They would be closer to the Texas teams than BC.

Hans is correct that they need a few teams out west to make it work. Maybe SLC with SD, the 3 Texas teams, KC and OKC could be a division. If the Coyotes move, than Phoenix could be in the mix.
seriously doubt you'll see KC as an AHL Market if they have zero interest in the AHL AND AEG controls said building....

San Diego is having issues now w/ an arena and now the Chargers are squawking about their stadium and are one rumored to be returning to LA.

Salt Lake/WVC/Utah will never return after the dual legal suits w/ Dallas and then when the Grizzlies pulled out leaving Phoenix to scramble, adsfan, their answer is they wanted nothing to do w/ being affiliated(the same issue Rochester is whining about control); It's easier for Calgary to stay in BC than San Diego........

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02-27-2011, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
San Diego is having issues now w/ an arena and now the Chargers are squawking about their stadium and are one rumored to be returning to LA.
*sigh* Chris, this shouldn't have to be pointed out to you, but the FOOTBALL stadium issues and the ARENA issues are completely separate. The Chargers' ongoing discussions with the City (and with other San Diego County cities) have absolutely nothing to do with the arena discussions, so kindly stop trying to pollute the waters with references to it.

That said, the "issues" with the arena are with arena management -- who are the reason that there isn't an ECHL team playing in the San Diego Sports Arena at this very moment. For as "horrible" as the arena's condition is, there was a willing owner for an ECHL San Diego team, and the league was more than willing to approve the arena for a team. But AEG (who you are quick to point out are managers of KC, but ignore their connection to San Diego) and their employee Ernie Hahn didn't extend a lease. The THEORY is that they're waiting for an AHL team to place there -- we'll all find out whether that's got any legs at the same time, should an AHL team actually get a lease here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Salt Lake/WVC/Utah will never return after the dual legal suits w/ Dallas and then when the Grizzlies pulled out leaving Phoenix to scramble, adsfan, their answer is they wanted nothing to do w/ being affiliated(the same issue Rochester is whining about control); It's easier for Calgary to stay in BC than San Diego........
Um, I want some of the crack you're smoking.

In the AHL, Utah had become an outpost, and didn't have the sweetheart deal that Abbotsford does (where the city guarantees balanced books for the team up to a $5.7 million budget). So, it was only logic for Elmore-Tuttle to give up their AHL membership and use the ECHL membership they already owned to bring the team into the ECHL. Your smoke-blowing about the lawsuits has nothing to do with whether the AHL would accept a franchise's desire to move there, should there be an ownership in place who could get the lease to the Maverik Center.

Given that the city of West Valley City now owns the ECHL franchise, I have ZERO doubt that should there be an ownership group that wished to try their hand at running an AHL team in the Maverik Center, that the City would gratefully step aside, fold (or just suspend) the ECHL team, and let an AHL team come in to take their place.

(Yes, that is a fairly large "if", but it has nothing to do with Hutch's obsession with affiliation-related lawsuits, clearly)

Then again, none of this has anything to do with the ORIGINAL TOPIC, which was speculation that the North Natomas-located ARCO Arena might be a suitable location for an ECHL (or other pro hockey league) team.

One MIGHT speculate that IF there were coordination among some of the Pacific and Northwest Division NHL teams, that the LA Kings _could_ move the Monarchs to San Diego, and the Sharks _could_ move the W-Sharks to Sacramento, and that the Ducks _could_ look at purchasing a team to move to Fresno -- that would possibly make the Western foothold of the AHL more secure. But that's all speculation and theory. Until we see some more movement along the lines of teams leaving their current homes, all of this is just people moving theoretical pins on a map.

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02-28-2011, 12:53 AM
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*sigh* Chris, this shouldn't have to be pointed out to you, but the FOOTBALL stadium issues and the ARENA issues are completely separate. The Chargers' ongoing discussions with the City (and with other San Diego County cities) have absolutely nothing to do with the arena discussions, so kindly stop trying to pollute the waters with references to it.
Not exactly, Hans. The **financial** issues impacting a stadium build may also impact the financial issues of an arena build. In addition, moving/adding teams may impact the financial aspect of divided sponsorships. (See the BOH board for these kinds of discussions; no need to duplicate here.)

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02-28-2011, 02:42 AM
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Not exactly, Hans. The **financial** issues impacting a stadium build may also impact the financial issues of an arena build. In addition, moving/adding teams may impact the financial aspect of divided sponsorships. (See the BOH board for these kinds of discussions; no need to duplicate here.)
Oh, well I'm not assuming there will be any kind of arena build here for at least a decade, if not more. Any arena sports team will have to live and die by the aging SDSA for that time period -- and the city gets their constant revenue stream from the leaseholders, so have no need to care what AEG does with it in the meantime.

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