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Old
02-28-2011, 03:31 PM
  #176
sighthndlady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Here's an (edited) copy of a post I made on the mains about same with some highlighting:



First frame captured, showing highlighting of the goal line and the puck with semitransparent colors. This is a few tenths of a second before MacKenzie jammed it in. This is to demonstrate that I'm not cheating w/r/t the highlighted area.
First off, I agree that it probably was a goal. However, your sequence of pictures shows why Toronto couldn't call it conclusively. Go back to your prior post (#152) where you've got the arrow pointing at what you think is the puck in the net. Now look at your first post in the highlighted sequence - while the puck is still clearly in the blue. Voila, the thing you've been pointing at as the puck-in-net is already clearly visible. So whatever it is, it ain't the puck. Sometimes the hockey gods are with you. Sometimes they're not.

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02-28-2011, 04:01 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Dude you jump on every positive comment on Legwand to throw in a negative.
Rarely. I will usually chime in if I don't agree with what's being said, (i.e. "I wouldn't trade Lewgand for Zetterberg"). Or last year, people claim he was our MVP after a 40 game goal drought. etc. And sure, I'll chime in on as to why I think he's overpaid when it's brought up.

And then you have situations like this when Legwand scores a goal. "Suck-it Legwand Haters!!" "Legwand Sucks!". Seriously, every time he scores.

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02-28-2011, 05:01 PM
  #178
Seth Lake
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Rarely. I will usually chime in if I don't agree with what's being said, (i.e. "I wouldn't trade Lewgand for Zetterberg"). Or last year, people claim he was our MVP after a 40 game goal drought. etc. And sure, I'll chime in on as to why I think he's overpaid when it's brought up.

And then you have situations like this when Legwand scores a goal. "Suck-it Legwand Haters!!" "Legwand Sucks!". Seriously, every time he scores.
Issue is though that unprovoked you posted "And Legwand picks up a meaningless two points on secondary assists" in the previous GDT when the truth of the matter is on both plays he carried the puck through the neutral zone and made a key pass that set up the goals in transition. Of course, then in this game he's in position to crash the net and put home the rebound for the game-winning goal and yet still I don't believe you'd give him any credit.

Legwand's factored in on 3 of the last 5 goals this team has scored...essentially all 3 of the even-strength goals with Blum's coming a couple seconds after the PP expired. Legwand's line is generating in transition. They are the only line doing so and I think it has a lot to do with his contributions there...

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Old
02-28-2011, 05:13 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Issue is though that unprovoked you posted "And Legwand picks up a meaningless two points on secondary assists" in the previous GDT when the truth of the matter is on both plays he carried the puck through the neutral zone and made a key pass that set up the goals in transition. Of course, then in this game he's in position to crash the net and put home the rebound for the game-winning goal and yet still I don't believe you'd give him any credit.

Legwand's factored in on 3 of the last 5 goals this team has scored...essentially all 3 of the even-strength goals with Blum's coming a couple seconds after the PP expired. Legwand's line is generating in transition. They are the only line doing so and I think it has a lot to do with his contributions there...
If you want to quote me, at least accurately quote me. Yes, I pointed out Legwand's run-of-mill 2nd assists. I didn't think they were the key play that made the goal happen. Sorry if you don't like it dude. There is a reason many leagues don't count 2nd assists. But, I did not attack any poster.

And now you are telling me what you think I believe? I actually came on the GDT to congratulate Legwand, then saw all the provoking comments.

But I regress, it's not OK to point out a 2nd assist, but is OK to tell people to SUCK IT!

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02-28-2011, 05:21 PM
  #180
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Legwand's been playing fairly well. One of our few, or our only, very good player in transition. No, he's not dangerous alone, he needs players on his wings that cause issues for the defenders. His line, now that they've had some games together again, needs to get it done. Must have a goal from one of Leggy, Hornqvist, or Wilson at least two of every three games or we'll fade. I think they can do it. I'm less sure of the Fisher line. Erat really needs to carry that line.

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Old
02-28-2011, 05:54 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sighthndlady View Post
First off, I agree that it probably was a goal. However, your sequence of pictures shows why Toronto couldn't call it conclusively. Go back to your prior post (#152) where you've got the arrow pointing at what you think is the puck in the net. Now look at your first post in the highlighted sequence - while the puck is still clearly in the blue. Voila, the thing you've been pointing at as the puck-in-net is already clearly visible. So whatever it is, it ain't the puck. Sometimes the hockey gods are with you. Sometimes they're not.
Everything I've seen shows nothing 100% conclusive. I absolutely think the puck was in the net at some point. There is no hard visual evidence that shows the puck at all. A blurry possible puck isn't 100% conclusive. It sucks that it happened but at some point you have to realize what the rules are and that sometimes you are just unlucky. No point in trying to grasp at straws to try to convince yourself that is was a goal.

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02-28-2011, 06:39 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fo Shea Shea View Post
Everything I've seen shows nothing 100% conclusive. I absolutely think the puck was in the net at some point. There is no hard visual evidence that shows the puck at all. A blurry possible puck isn't 100% conclusive. It sucks that it happened but at some point you have to realize what the rules are and that sometimes you are just unlucky. No point in trying to grasp at straws to try to convince yourself that is was a goal.
Or, put differently, it ought to have been a goal and shows every sign of having been a goal, but the current standards (and tools used to enforce those standards) are deeply flawed.

But, of course, everyone knows that. Everyone except the NHL, apparently.

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Old
02-28-2011, 06:55 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Or, put differently, it ought to have been a goal and shows every sign of having been a goal, but the current standards (and tools used to enforce those standards) are deeply flawed.

But, of course, everyone knows that. Everyone except the NHL, apparently.
Well put.

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Old
02-28-2011, 07:51 PM
  #184
sighthndlady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Or, put differently, it ought to have been a goal and shows every sign of having been a goal, but the current standards (and tools used to enforce those standards) are deeply flawed.

But, of course, everyone knows that. Everyone except the NHL, apparently.
yup. At least its effect is random.

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Old
02-28-2011, 08:15 PM
  #185
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So let me get this straight, secondary assists don't mean anything? Heck, why do assists even matter at all. Sometimes the secondary assist is more important to the play actually happening than the primary assist.

On Legwand's game winning goal you could argue the biggest play was that of Blum and he didn't even get an assist. He held on to the puck long enough for Weber to get out of the box, fed the puck to Legwand who got it to Weber, who then fed it to Erat who took a shot and Legwand was able to knock in the rebound. If not for the smart play of Blum, Legwand doesn't score yet he doesn't get credited with anything more than recognition by the staff, the team and fans who watch the game intently. No offense going to the casual fans or the fans that aren't as up to speed on the game, not my intent to insult them but after watching the game for over 30 years, you pick up on plays like that.

All that said, we can argue semantics about primary assists, secondary assists and whatever else we want on here but at the end of the day, Legwand put the game winner in yesterday. That is fact. Plain and simple. We won the game because he put the puck in the net. Good for him, good for the team.

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Old
02-28-2011, 09:05 PM
  #186
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For all of our complaining about not finishing our rushes, Leggy went top shelf on his backhand in the waning minutes of a game we desperately needed to win. It was a beautiful GWG. It doesn't happen often enough, but I'll take it to be sure.

You aren't giving him enough credit. For 9/10s of his career, he has played alongside the likes of Joel Ward in a shutdown role. And now we give him 2 young wingers and expect him to flourish overnight on a primarily offensive line. He's had, what, 3 weeks with Willy and Horny??

If you want to complain, complain about Erat. He's been playing the same role for years and produces little more than Legwand.

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Old
02-28-2011, 09:34 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
For 9/10s of his career, he has played alongside the likes of Joel Ward in a shutdown role.
No he hasn't. He's been on a scoringline 9/10th of his career. Last year was the first year he spent extended time on the 3rd line. Still led all forwards in in total ice time (50% more time than Smithson).

Legwand got the GWG, yay. Congrats to him.

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02-28-2011, 09:50 PM
  #188
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So he hasn't spent the majority of his career in a shutdown role??? What team have you been watching?

And maybe he had offensive juggernauts as his linemates. I can't remember any.

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02-28-2011, 09:51 PM
  #189
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
No he hasn't. He's been on a scoringline 9/10th of his career. Last year was the first year he spent extended time on the 3rd line. Still led all forwards in in total ice time (50% more time than Smithson).

Legwand got the GWG, yay. Congrats to him.
9/10th's is high, but since the lockout Legwand has been asked to play against and shut down the opponent's top line on a regular basis. He's been asked to do this while playing on a "scoring line" and that's where the criticism comes from, but the fact of the matter is you cannot deny that he's been asked to play a shutdown role (and in the past couple years commonly with Joel Ward as his winger) for a majority of his career since the lockout...

This is not going to turn into another "Legwand" thread. People celebrated his recent contributions to the scoresheet. They are entitled to do so. You're entitled to disagree. However, both sides need to move on. Let's stop the constant cycles of the same arguments. It gets us nowhere...

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Old
02-28-2011, 09:52 PM
  #190
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
So he hasn't spent the majority of his career in a shutdown role??? What team have you been watching?

And maybe he had offensive juggernauts as his linemates. I can't remember any.
Legwand played with Kariya and Erat on a scoring line for a couple of years...

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Old
02-28-2011, 10:06 PM
  #191
WartracePred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Legwand played with Kariya and Erat on a scoring line for a couple of years...
Point taken about PK and Erat.

Out of curiosity, who did leggy skate with in the pre PK days. I left Nashville in 2000 and didn't follow the Preds as closely in the early years (pre lock-out years).


Last edited by Seth Lake: 03-01-2011 at 12:23 AM.
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Old
02-28-2011, 11:56 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Legwand played with Kariya and Erat on a scoring line for a couple of years...
He played with Ronning though a lot of first years, often on the wing. The only center he consistently played behind was Arnott starting in 05. Even if the days of Arkhipov, he was playing center to Johansson, Walker, etc. He's played with Erat a ton. He's only averaged less than 2 min of PP time once or twice. He usually leads all forwards in even strength time.

Legwand provides various things to this team, but consistent scoring is not one, with or without select linemates. I accept him for what he is, a 2-way, mostly perimeter player with occasional offense. Hopefully the "occasional" becomes a little more frequent down the stretch.


Last edited by Seth Lake: 03-01-2011 at 12:52 AM.
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Old
03-01-2011, 12:21 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Here's an (edited) copy of a post I made on the mains about same with some highlighting:



First frame captured, showing highlighting of the goal line and the puck with semitransparent colors. This is a few tenths of a second before MacKenzie jammed it in. This is to demonstrate that I'm not cheating w/r/t the highlighted area.



The shot I've been using to illustrate where the puck was. Note the location relative to the goal line.

Zoomed in version:





He was back on the ice a few shifts later, thankfully. Love that guy more than is probably healthy.
good to hear about hejda..guess i should have noticed, but i guess i dont keep up with opposing team injuries during the game.

and as far as the pics, i understand what you are trying to show, but coloring them doesnt help in my opinion. makes it more difficult actually. i still dont see it, sorry. and according to the rules (today), i think the right call was made. ref said no goal, and nothing "conclusive" to over turn it.

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Old
03-01-2011, 12:28 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
If you want to quote me, at least accurately quote me. Yes, I pointed out Legwand's run-of-mill 2nd assists. I didn't think they were the key play that made the goal happen. Sorry if you don't like it dude. There is a reason many leagues don't count 2nd assists. But, I did not attack any poster.

And now you are telling me what you think I believe? I actually came on the GDT to congratulate Legwand, then saw all the provoking comments.

But I regress, it's not OK to point out a 2nd assist, but is OK to tell people to SUCK IT!
i am not trying to get involved in this argument..trust me, i dont care. but i am also a proponent of not giving on 2nd assists, at least as easily as they are given out in this league. It drives me crazy at times really.

That being said, i think that Blum deserves a third assist on legwands goal. His pass to shea coming out of the box is what made that play happen. I think Erat shouldnt get one for the shot, and Blum should get it.

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Old
03-01-2011, 12:34 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Legwand provides various things to this team, but consistent scoring is not one, with or without select linemates. I accept him for what he is, a 2-way, mostly perimeter player with occasional offense. Hopefully the "occasional" becomes a little more frequent down the stretch.
i dont think anyone will disagree with this. well put. should have started with this

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Old
03-01-2011, 01:29 PM
  #196
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I guess I should have known better than to say a little nothing joke that praised Legwand. Sorry.


Last edited by Seth Lake: 03-01-2011 at 05:25 PM. Reason: OK, new game tonight. This thread has run it's course...
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