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02-26-2011, 12:10 PM
  #101
CantbeatzPekka
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I hope Poile doesnt, but then again i dont care as long as he just gets them signed. Only the Seabrook deal is what kills me really but id take Weber or Suter over Seabrook any day so if poile does something around Keith/Seabrook contract for Suter/Weber Id be more than fine with it. Hopefully longer than 5 years tho TBH.

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02-26-2011, 12:13 PM
  #102
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I am expecting Weber to get 7 million max and I would be happy with that amount. Same with Suter. If Poile can sign him for 6.5 or less I will be thrilled.

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02-26-2011, 12:20 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
With Seabrook about to re-up with Chicage for a little under $6 million per season for 5 years, this sets an interesting precedent for negotiations with Weber and Suter. Keith is signed for around $5.5 million per and with Seabrook coming in at just under $6 million, how does Poile negotiate with our two? I think it's funny they're giving Seabrook more money than a guy that just won the Norris trophy and is actually the better player between the two. Where does that leave us with Weber and Suter?

Does Poile use these two salaries as comparisons but if I'm their agents, I come back with Campbell's, Phaneuf's and J-Bo's salaries. Gonna be interesting to say the least but if the Chicago guys salaries are what we give our guys, I think we'll be ok. I have this funny feeling, our pair will get more when all is said and done but not a ton more.
Keep in mind that Keith has one of those "cap circumvention" contracts where it is heavily front loaded to bring down the cap hit. He actually makes $8M this year.

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02-26-2011, 12:31 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Keep in mind that Keith has one of those "cap circumvention" contracts where it is heavily front loaded to bring down the cap hit. He actually makes $8M this year.
Front loading does nothing for the cap hit.

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02-26-2011, 12:41 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Front loading does nothing for the cap hit.
Isn't it the average of the yearly salaries through the length of the contract? He's making over $7mil for six seasons in a row, but his cap hit is $5.54mil. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just curious how it doesn't affect the cap hit.

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02-26-2011, 12:44 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Isn't it the average of the yearly salaries through the length of the contract? He's making over $7mil for six seasons in a row, but his cap hit is $5.54mil. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just curious how it doesn't affect the cap hit.
The cap hit is the amount of the contract divided by the years of the contract, that is the cap hit.

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02-26-2011, 12:49 PM
  #107
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I keep thinking that Weber seeing Erat making 6 million next year drives his asking price up higher than contracts around the league. Although his and Legwand's comes down in future years and Erat's cap hit is 4.5. But Erat is making 5.25 this year, then 6, then 5.5.

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02-26-2011, 01:10 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Front loading does nothing for the cap hit.
Front loading + tacking on years will absolutely affect the cap hit.

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02-26-2011, 02:48 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Front loading + tacking on years will absolutely affect the cap hit.
How do you figure? The cap hit is the average of what the contract is worth. How does it affect the cap hit exactly?

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02-26-2011, 02:53 PM
  #110
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By front loading you're able to add the years on the end at a cheaper price. Adding the years effects the cap hit calculation. Kovy's contract is the example. He's being paid huge money for the first couple of years, little money the last few but it's for so many years, averaged out the cap hit is smaller.

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02-26-2011, 02:57 PM
  #111
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But if you're going to pay someone say, 25 million for five years it's 5 mil cap hit whether you load it 8,7,5,3,2 or go 5,5,5,5,5 which is all he was saying. Doesn't alter the cap hit which is total dollars divided by years.

If a team needs to pay their star bigger than they can take cap hit, yeah, they tack on cheap years on the end as much as the NHL allows. But it's not front loading that reduced the cap hit, it's adding some cheap years.

They could put the cheap years on the front and it would be the same cap hit. 2,2,2,2,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,9 is the same cap hit as 9,9, 8,8,8,8,8, 8, 2,2,2,2, except of course no star would play for the first one and the late years on the second one are expected to be bought out or something such as a retirement.


Last edited by OpenWheel: 02-26-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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02-26-2011, 03:22 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
But if you're going to pay someone say, 25 million for five years it's 5 mil cap hit whether you load it 8,7,5,3,2 or go 5,5,5,5,5 which is all he was saying. Doesn't alter the cap hit which is total dollars divided by years.

If a team needs to pay their star bigger than they can take cap hit, yeah, they tack on cheap years on the end as much as the NHL allows. But it's not front loading that reduced the cap hit, it's adding some cheap years.

They could put the cheap years on the front and it would be the same cap hit. 2,2,2,2,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,9 is the same cap hit as 9,9, 8,8,8,8,8, 8, 2,2,2,2, except of course no star would play for the first one and the late years on the second one are expected to be bought out or something such as a retirement.
I understand this, but I think the original point was that with Keith's contract his cap hit is a bit misleading. He gets paid a good amount over the next handful of seasons, but they also tacked on the cheap years to end the contract. It doesn't matter in our case, but if we were a spend-to-the-cap team it would.

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02-26-2011, 03:34 PM
  #113
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Of course. But it gets old to hear people say it was front loaded to bring down the cap hit and argue about it. Most of the time they each know how it's figured.When someone says the cap hit is just total dollars divided by years and it doesn't matter whether it's front loaded or not, they are right. But it's also right that teams add cheap years to lower the cap, which make it "front loaded".

I agree it would be totally misleading to compare some other star to Shea Weber and say "that guy only makes 5,5 million" if that's cap hit number but the player is actually making 7 or more but just has cheap years on the end. Weber would get the 7 or more if he was comparable, not the 5.5 And for Nashville, actual yearly salary matters the most, not those cap numbers.


Last edited by OpenWheel: 02-26-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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03-01-2011, 08:36 AM
  #114
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Alright, so let me be the one to ask. Would trading Weber in the offseason for a true top line player offend everyone?

I mean it would have to be a player that could bring us up to respectability offensively.

Shea Weber is a beast, I agree, and one of my favorites to ever play for the Predators, however. We are so loaded with defensive talent. If Josi is close to Blum, talent wise, I think with those 2 and Suter we're still one of the more talented bluelines.

Something has to give, we need a scorer and we have a ton of talent on the blueline.

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03-01-2011, 08:47 AM
  #115
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I don't think we can trade Weber. I know that from a "technical" standpoint, Suter might have some advantages on Weber, but he'll never be the marquee player that Weber is. He hits, he scores, he fights, he's popular with the kids and ladies.

I advocated trading Suter for Bobby Ryan in the offseason...that's the sort of deal I'd be okay with. Salaries would balance, young, proven 40 goal scorer that could potentially even hit 50.

And before anyone says it, the "Weber sucks without Suter" argument is bunk. Weber was playing with such defensive luminaries as Francis Bouillon and Shane O'Brien while Suter was out. If anything, our defensive depth beyond the top pair is suspect, but we all knew that. Suter would similarly struggle(and did) in the same situation.

But...I know that Poile and Trotz believe in the "build from the net out\win the game 2-1" philosophy, so I don't think either is going anywhere, and as long as we can continually find castoffs to score 17-20 goals, I can certainly live with having both.

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03-01-2011, 09:05 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Alright, so let me be the one to ask. Would trading Weber in the offseason for a true top line player offend everyone?

I mean it would have to be a player that could bring us up to respectability offensively.

Shea Weber is a beast, I agree, and one of my favorites to ever play for the Predators, however. We are so loaded with defensive talent. If Josi is close to Blum, talent wise, I think with those 2 and Suter we're still one of the more talented bluelines.

Something has to give, we need a scorer and we have a ton of talent on the blueline.
Problem is there are very few players who we could trade for and know for sure they would be just as valuable long term(ie to be as valuable as Weber we'd need a guy guaranteed to score 30+ every year for the next 5 years). Thats a pretty short list.

the one player on that list who I also thought his team might actually consider trading was Malkin, and he just blew his ACL.


I really cant think of anyone else who would be that big a lock for goal production and would likely be able to be had

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03-01-2011, 09:08 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I really cant think of anyone else who would be that big a lock for goal production and would likely be able to be had
Maybe Parise? or one of the Anaheim guys (Perry, Getzlaf, or Ryan)

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03-01-2011, 09:31 AM
  #118
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Maybe Parise? or one of the Anaheim guys (Perry, Getzlaf, or Ryan)
I would do Parise as long as I was sure his knee was OK. Ryan I would probably do though I would hate to face Weber 6 times a year.

Doubt Ryan is available though. Parise maybe

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03-01-2011, 12:26 PM
  #119
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I think we should. As much as I love heart Weber he would bring us the biggest return... We have had great d-men for years and even lost many through free agency, etc. and been able to plug someone else in... and *zero* championships, or heck even a playoff series win. You can't keep doing the same things and expect a different result. But I highly doubt it will ever happen.

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03-01-2011, 12:33 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I don't think we can trade Weber. I know that from a "technical" standpoint, Suter might have some advantages on Weber, but he'll never be the marquee player that Weber is. He hits, he scores, he fights, he's popular with the kids and ladies.

I advocated trading Suter for Bobby Ryan in the offseason...that's the sort of deal I'd be okay with. Salaries would balance, young, proven 40 goal scorer that could potentially even hit 50.

And before anyone says it, the "Weber sucks without Suter" argument is bunk. Weber was playing with such defensive luminaries as Francis Bouillon and Shane O'Brien while Suter was out. If anything, our defensive depth beyond the top pair is suspect, but we all knew that. Suter would similarly struggle(and did) in the same situation.

But...I know that Poile and Trotz believe in the "build from the net out\win the game 2-1" philosophy, so I don't think either is going anywhere, and as long as we can continually find castoffs to score 17-20 goals, I can certainly live with having both.
this x 1000

Purposely letting Weber go would be a terrible decision IMO. If he wants out, that's a different story. If he wants to stay, you lock him up for as many years as possible.

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03-01-2011, 12:36 PM
  #121
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Do you think if we miss (POs), he'll want to part ways? Not trying to knee-jerk here, just asking.

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03-01-2011, 12:45 PM
  #122
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Do you think if we miss (POs), he'll want to part ways? Not trying to knee-jerk here, just asking.
This is simply impossible to answer, but I really doubt Weber will decide his future based off losing a few games.

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03-01-2011, 01:05 PM
  #123
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I'm with Bob McKenzie ... He said yesterday that Weber is waiting to see if the Preds are serious in spending past the internal cap ... and it doesn't look like that is going to happen ... we'll see how he responds

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03-01-2011, 01:10 PM
  #124
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I'm with Bob McKenzie ... He said yesterday that Weber is waiting to see if the Preds are serious in spending past the internal cap ... and it doesn't look like that is going to happen ... we'll see how he responds

Where did you see that?

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03-01-2011, 01:17 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
I keep thinking that Weber seeing Erat making 6 million next year drives his asking price up higher than contracts around the league. Although his and Legwand's comes down in future years and Erat's cap hit is 4.5. But Erat is making 5.25 this year, then 6, then 5.5.
It doesnt take a genius to see those two players are overpaid. I hope Weber is smarter than that

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