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Don't you see it? They're coming after us...

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Old
03-01-2011, 11:54 AM
  #1
stevecanuck16
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Don't you see it? They're coming after us...

I realized what a unique position we were in at the trade deadline this year when I looked at some of the acquisitions in the West. Everyone in the West sees us as the number 1 contender, and knows the road to the Cup runs through Vancouver. They know they'll probably have to play us first if they want a shot.

So, you see LA picking up Dustin Penner, knowing our D has had trouble with big forwards. We see Anaheim toughening up even more, hoping to counter our skill with size.

I think it's just interesting to see us setting the standard, and how teams are attempting to respond to it. I'm not saying we should be worried, but perhaps we should take it as a compliment.

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03-01-2011, 11:56 AM
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PensFan6687
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It's over folks! Time to pack her in. I wouldn't think too much into it. Teams always try to make their teams stronger come playoff time, unless you're Florida.. Wideman for a 3rd, despite the fact Wideman was the big piece involved in that Horton trade. Granted he's a -20 but have patience people. Ugh.

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03-01-2011, 12:01 PM
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GoTeamDom
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This is exactly how I saw it as well. I saw the Chris Stewart acquisition by the Blues in particular as a shot across the Canucks' bow.

St. Louis / LA / Ana and to an extent SJ all have at least 3 prototypical power forwards, and not surprisingly, we don't match up well against any of them.

That being said, this team has far more strengths than weaknesses. If you want a playbook to dismantling this team, it is as follows:

- Test Vancouver's defensive depth (ie: injure Defensemen)
- Get in Luongo's wheelhouse to get him off his game (or injure him)
- Eliminate Secondary scoring (ie: injure Kesler)

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03-01-2011, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
So, you see LA picking up Dustin Penner, knowing our D has had trouble with big forwards. We see Anaheim toughening up even more, hoping to counter our skill with size.
Our D has trouble with big forwards? I don't see it. Every team has trouble with big forwards that can score goals - just like every team has trouble with quick, skilled forwards that can score goals...

The teams that have given the Canucks the most trouble this season are the quick, puck possession teams like Chicago and Detroit.

The Kings are big but can't skate - I would be very surprised if they managed to upset the Canucks and think our speed would really exploit their big, plodding forwards.

Same goes for Anaheim - not scared at all of their size and toughness. The Canucks quick transition game and dangerous PP would be too much for them. I would love nothing more than to see George Parros, Brian McGrattan and Tuomo Ruutu on the ice as much as possible.

Detroit is the Canucks greatest threat.

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03-01-2011, 12:14 PM
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None of those players scare me. It's guys like Lucic, Byfuglien and Pronger that give the Canucks headaches. Big power-forwards with a mean streak and penchant to stand infront of Luongo all night.

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03-01-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoTeamDom View Post
This is exactly how I saw it as well. I saw the Chris Stewart acquisition by the Blues in particular as a shot across the Canucks' bow.

St. Louis / LA / Ana and to an extent SJ all have at least 3 prototypical power forwards, and not surprisingly, we don't match up well against any of them.

That being said, this team has far more strengths than weaknesses. If you want a playbook to dismantling this team, it is as follows:

- Test Vancouver's defensive depth (ie: injure Defensemen)
- Get in Luongo's wheelhouse to get him off his game (or injure him)
- Eliminate Secondary scoring (ie: injure Kesler)
Injuring defencemen, goaltenders and goalscorers is the key to defeating the Canucks. Amazing insight there.

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03-01-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Injuring defencemen, goaltenders and goalscorers is the key to defeating the Canucks. Amazing insight there.
He's the expert on injuring guys..... I wonder if he's Tanya Harding.

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03-01-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Moobles View Post
None of those players scare me. It's guys like Lucic, Byfuglien and Pronger that give the Canucks headaches. Big power-forwards with a mean streak and penchant to stand infront of Luongo all night.
I don't understand how people act like this is some kind of secret weakness of the Canucks.

Milan Lucic is a young monster forward. There isn't a D group in the league that easily handles him when he's on his game.

Dustin Byfuglien, same thing except he's not a forward anymore.

Chris Pronger has carried multiple teams to the Stanley Cup finals on his back. Again, there isn't a team in the league that goes into a game against the Flyers, and their coaching staff is saying "oh yeah, that Pronger guy. No big deal."

These teams aren't making these moves to go after the Canucks any more than they're doing it to go after every single team they are going to play games against.

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03-01-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
I don't understand how people act like this is some kind of secret weakness of the Canucks.
[/i]
It is a strange fascination a lot of Canadian hockey fans have with big players. Canuck fans never seem to talk much about how small, skilled players give the team trouble.

Yes, Milan Lucic is hard to stop. As is Pavel Datsuyk and Henrik Zetterberg...

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03-01-2011, 12:44 PM
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Sorry, I should have worded better. I meant that the perception is there that we struggle with large forwards, which is why you saw a lot of large forwards being shuffled around the West.

The Chris Stewart example is another that was bang on.

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03-01-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Sorry, I should have worded better. I meant that the perception is there that we struggle with large forwards, which is why you saw a lot of large forwards being shuffled around the West.

The Chris Stewart example is another that was bang on.
Every team struggles with large goal scoring forwards. It's not like Stewart has scored all of his goals against the Canucks.

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03-01-2011, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
It is a strange fascination a lot of Canadian hockey fans have with big players. Canuck fans never seem to talk much about how small, skilled players give the team trouble.

Yes, Milan Lucic is hard to stop. As is Pavel Datsuyk and Henrik Zetterberg...
Really? I think I have mentioned duncan keith (whos more on the small/skilled side) countless times for shutdown the twins.


Against the blues 2 year ago. The player that gave us the most trouble was Andy Macdonald. Another fantastic small player that is a handful. I remember bringing his name up a lot.

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03-01-2011, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Sorry, I should have worded better. I meant that the perception is there that we struggle with large forwards, which is why you saw a lot of large forwards being shuffled around the West.

The Chris Stewart example is another that was bang on.
The shuffling of big forwards had nothing to do with the Canucks or their fans perceived weakness matching up against size up front.

Big, tough teams can't skate with Vancouver. I would put money on Vancouver beating any big, strong team in the Western conference.

Anaheim, Columbus, Dallas and St. Louis all boast very big forward groups that are lauded for being hard to play against. I wouldn't be surprised if they all miss the playoffs.

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03-01-2011, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
Every team struggles with large goal scoring forwards. It's not like Stewart has scored all of his goals against the Canucks.
Sure obviously all teams struggle against big forwards.

But the point is the canucks don't have any to counter it.

When we see other teams skill guys, and we look at our twins. At least we feel we have something comparable if not better.

But we see others teams with 2 or 3 legit powerforward. Like byfuglien standing in front of our net.
And our counter is alex burrows trying to bump into khabibulin/niemik, the contrast is huge.

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03-01-2011, 12:55 PM
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Really? I think I have mentioned duncan keith (whos more on the small/skilled side) countless times for shutdown the twins.


Against the blues 2 year ago. The player that gave us the most trouble was Andy Macdonald. Another fantastic player that is a handful. I remember bringing his name up a lot.
All I ever hear about when people talk about the Blues is David Backes. Seems strange because like you said, Andy Macdonald is always giving the team fits. Brad Boyes as well has found a lot of success against the Canucks.

Canuck fans are always clamouring to pick up defensemen that can match up against the biggest, baddest forwards in the league. How often do you hear people calling for someone to shut down Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsuyk? I've never heard it once.

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03-01-2011, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The shuffling of big forwards had nothing to do with the Canucks or their fans perceived weakness matching up against size up front.

Big, tough teams can't skate with Vancouver. I would put money on Vancouver beating any big, strong team in the Western conference.

Anaheim, Columbus, Dallas and St. Louis all boast very big forward groups that are lauded for being hard to play against. I wouldn't be surprised if they all miss the playoffs.
I fear Anaheim, not in that they could beat us, but in that they could really rough us up for the next round. I'm very much hoping they play Detroit in the 1st.

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03-01-2011, 01:01 PM
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Sure obviously all teams struggle against big forwards.

But the point is the canucks don't have any to counter it.

When we see other teams skill guys, and we look at our twins. At least we feel we have something comparable if not better.

But we see others teams with 2 or 3 legit powerforward. Like byfuglien standing in front of our net.
And our counter is alex burrows trying to bump into khabibulin/niemik, the contrast is huge.
Really, though, it just comes down to having better forwards, regardless of how they go about being better.

Ryan Kesler is a way better 6'2"+ goal scoring forward than basically any team in the league possesses.

You look at the league leaders, and there's not a whole ton of meat there.

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03-01-2011, 01:03 PM
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But the point is the canucks don't have any to counter it.
Ryan Kesler is as effective a net presence as there is in the NHL right now.

Kesler and Burrows are always right on top of the crease looking for screens and deflections, Mikael Samuelsson gets under the oppositions skin and the 3rd and 4th line are littered with big forwards that can create havoc down low.

Kesler, Burrows, Samuelsson, Torres, Hansen, Malhotra, Glass, Lapierre and Higgins are all hard on the puck and pose a threat down low in the opposing end with physicality and an ability to create offense.

The Canucks have 9 gritty forwards and still there will be people complaining the team lacks that element. It's like a nervous tick among a portion of the fanbase - because I can tell you opposing players sure don't look at the Canucks as an easy team to play against.

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03-01-2011, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
All I ever hear about when people talk about the Blues is David Backes. Seems strange because like you said, Andy Macdonald is always giving the team fits. Brad Boyes as well has found a lot of success against the Canucks.

Canuck fans are always clamouring to pick up defensemen that can match up against the biggest, baddest forwards in the league. How often do you hear people calling for someone to shut down Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsuyk? I've never heard it once.
I can only speak for myself. But Macdonald was clearly the most dangerous blues forward in that series. And I stated that back then just like right now.

About datsyuk/zetterberg, the canucks haven't had a playoff series against the wings since 2002, when those 2 were not the vocal points. The regular season matchups are nothing compare to the playoff battles.

You won't hear me talk about how we need to shutdown nash for tonights game.

At that time (2002) it was yzerman that was the go to guy. And I was furious and I mean furious that Yzerman who was on one knee was able to somehow become healthier by the end of the series. Yzerman is not a big powerforward.

The canucks gave too much respect to him and barely even hit him.
I remember talking a lot about that.

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03-01-2011, 01:04 PM
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The Wings were also allowed to do anything they wanted to Bertuzzi without any calls. Not that I still hold a grudge....

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03-01-2011, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
Really, though, it just comes down to having better forwards, regardless of how they go about being better.

Ryan Kesler is a way better 6'2"+ goal scoring forward than basically any team in the league possesses.

You look at the league leaders, and there's not a whole ton of meat there.
No doubt, Kesler is evolving into that type of player.

But Im sure I've said this before. Ryan Kesler is not superman. He has way too much responsibilities on this team.

Hes carrying the 2nd line, ie hes skating miles, Hes one of our key Pker, ie hes hustling and blocking shots.

Hes THE only option as the man in front of the on the 1st pp unit.

Hes likely the player we will match against the likes of toews/thornton/getzlaf etc.

How can we expect him to do all this and be able to bring that kind of dominance thru (i hope) 4 rounds of intense hockey?

Thats why i feel even one more big bodied in the top 6 would have help a lot.

But its too late now. The deadline has past and as a fan I just want this team to win. And Kesler's stamina imo is a huge key to our success.

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03-01-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PensFan6687 View Post
He's the expert on injuring guys..... I wonder if he's Tanya Harding.
I didn't say it was a good plan. Also, I got most of this strategy from watching Team Iceland in D2. Just look how ineffective Team USA was after Adam Banks went out.

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03-01-2011, 01:13 PM
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I didn't say it was a good plan. Also, I got most of this strategy from watching Team Iceland in D2. Just look how ineffective Team USA was after Adam Banks went out.
hehe I like you! You can take the jabs well. I never got the flying V and how that worked... stupid Disney hockey movies.... EMILIO!!!!!

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03-01-2011, 01:19 PM
  #24
ahmon
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Ryan Kesler is as effective a net presence as there is in the NHL right now.

Kesler and Burrows are always right on top of the crease looking for screens and deflections, Mikael Samuelsson gets under the oppositions skin and the 3rd and 4th line are littered with big forwards that can create havoc down low.

Kesler, Burrows, Samuelsson, Torres, Hansen, Malhotra, Glass, Lapierre and Higgins are all hard on the puck and pose a threat down low in the opposing end with physicality and an ability to create offense.

The Canucks have 9 gritty forwards and still there will be people complaining the team lacks that element. It's like a nervous tick among a portion of the fanbase - because I can tell you opposing players sure don't look at the Canucks as an easy team to play against.

Well I do like the addition of lapperiere.

But realistically in the top 6 only ryan kesler is able to get to the net. Samuelsson is more of a mid-range player. He seldom scores goals around the crease.

Burrows tries but for some reason looks like he weighs 50 lbs. I mean burrows get swatted away from the front of the net like nothing.

Like I said in an earlier post, the deadline has past, and theres no use talking about personnel changes(trades) for this playoffs. I just hope with the addition of lapperierre/higgins it will be enough.

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03-01-2011, 02:09 PM
  #25
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Really? I think I have mentioned duncan keith (whos more on the small/skilled side) countless times for shutdown the twins.


Against the blues 2 year ago. The player that gave us the most trouble was Andy Macdonald. Another fantastic small player that is a handful. I remember bringing his name up a lot.
Patrick Kane too. I think the theme is that good forwards are hard to defend. It has nothing to do with the Canucks in particular struggling or excelling against big forwards.

It's hubris to think that teams are making moves to "go after" the Canucks. Don't you think every every team in the league is just trying to make themselves better? And to think that any trip to the Cup must go through Vancouver (despite being in first place) is cockiness of the worst kind, and a great way to inspire a hungry team to play way over their heads against the Canucks.

I hope the Canucks don't develop a "we're in first place - we're better than everyone" attitude. If they cool off for a week in April, May or June their season will be over, just like anyone else. Hunger and desperation are as likely to decide a playoffs series as skill.

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