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2010-2011 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, NCAA, International, Other) *Part 4*

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Old
03-02-2011, 10:00 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Kreider (18), McIlrath (50) and McDonagh (75) made THN future watch.

I guess nobody saw McDonagh's skating and defensive prowess translating so well.
McDonagh as I understand, certainly turned some heads with his NCAA play, but Sauer really intrigues me... Did he play this well for Hartford? (I've only seen 8-10 games over the last 2-3 years). I rarely heard much commotion about his game in the AHL, didn't see any of the media writers really reporting on his play, and he was not a big blip on the radar generally among the Rangers fan base & community... But his play in the NHL this season has been remarkable... I bet there are a plethora of teams who would love to have a young defenseman like Sauer , who has come up and played as steady and as consistent as he has, and seemingly fit in to a tee with the flow of the NHL game. I have to imagine he probably wasn't a player being asked for by other teams in terms of trade talks in the past, but definitely will and would be moving forward.... It's difficult to put this into words, but there definitely seems to be an unknown element with some young players' games... You don't see them play to their best potential until they are really tested under the most difficult circumstances... This won't apply to prospects across the board, but I definitely think it comes into play in some players' games, it's like they have an extra gear of untapped potential.... Maybe it's the pressure or expectations of playing on the big stage, or not wanting to disappoint a demanding head coach, but it's certainly there... It's the reason why I try to reserve judgement and also hold out hope when thinking about some of our prospects, because some of them will surprise you when you least expect it... With some of them, you simply don't and can't know in advance until you see it happen....

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03-02-2011, 10:02 PM
  #252
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He played the same way for Hartford as he has here.

Which is one of the reasons I was clamoring so hard for him last year when it became clear Gilroy wasn't gonna be an offensive dman; he was Girardi with a little more grit and a little less offense.

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03-02-2011, 10:04 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
He played the same way for Hartford as he has here.

Which is one of the reasons I was clamoring so hard for him last year when it became clear Gilroy wasn't gonna be an offensive dman; he was Girardi with a little more grit and a little less offense.
Crazy how he wasn't called up before (though I can understand with his injuries) and also that most people, myself included, were unaware he was so good.

Guess we got something from the Leech trade after all.

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03-02-2011, 10:06 PM
  #254
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03-02-2011, 10:08 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
He played the same way for Hartford as he has here.

Which is one of the reasons I was clamoring so hard for him last year when it became clear Gilroy wasn't gonna be an offensive dman; he was Girardi with a little more grit and a little less offense.
What confuses me then, is why didn't they bring him up sooner instead of cycling through some less than desirable players on our back-end? Why were players like Potter, Heikkenen, getting looks over Sauer? We couldn't have called up Sauer instead of going with Eriksson last season? Why didn't we hear his name much when Sather/Clark/Schoenfeld give interviews? It just doesn't add up to me if he's been playing at this level for awhile now... Is it possible now, he's better than he's ever been in his career?

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03-02-2011, 10:08 PM
  #256
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Sauer was hard to get a hold on cause he was injured so much. But when he was on the ice he was solid defensively.

I originally didn't like the pick, not cause of his play but the injuries. I was a big Paul Stastny fan for one of those TWO 2nd rounders we had that draft.

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03-02-2011, 10:11 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Sauer was hard to get a hold on cause he was injured so much. But when he was on the ice he was solid defensively.

I originally didn't like the pick, not cause of his play but the injuries. I was a big Paul Stastny fan for one of those TWO 2nd rounders we had that draft.
I always forget Stast was a 2nd round pick.

I can only imagine if we grabbed him.

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03-02-2011, 10:11 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Crazy how he wasn't called up before (though I can understand with his injuries) and also that most people, myself included, were unaware he was so good.

Guess we got something from the Leech trade after all.
And Dubinsky, he was one of the 4 2nds we had in 2004. Lucky he panned out, if we had one pick that round it would've been Darin Olver only. Meh, what do I know, I liked Goligoski and Booth, but the experts knew better

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03-02-2011, 10:12 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What confuses me then, is why didn't they bring him up sooner instead of cycling through some less than desirable players on our back-end? Why were players like Potter, Heikkenen, getting looks over Sauer? We couldn't have called up Sauer instead of going with Eriksson last season? Why didn't we hear his name much when Sather/Clark/Schoenfeld give interviews? It just doesn't add up to me if he's been playing at this level for awhile now... Is it possible now, he's better than he's ever been in his career?
Couple combinations of circumstances.

Sauer got a short callup a few years back.

Then, we had callups of

Sanguinetti (RD, needed a shot)
Potter (LD, versatile)
Heikkinen (LD, but a shiny new toy. Probly could have been an NHL defenseman)

And he was injured during a few more potential opportunities.

Plus, Torts didn't like him much. He was an early cut last year, and was scratched to start this year. Took Torts awhile to catch on to how good he was.

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03-02-2011, 10:12 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
And Dubinsky, he was one of the 4 2nds we had in 2004. Lucky he panned out, if we had one pick that round it would've been Darin Olver only. Meh, what do I know, I liked Goligoski and Booth, but the experts knew better
Why don't you tell us about all the players you liked that didn't amount to squat? Selective reporting

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Old
03-02-2011, 11:05 PM
  #261
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Why don't you tell us about all the players you liked that didn't amount to squat? Selective reporting
1998
Mark Bell, Christian Backman

I wanted Bell as our first and Erik Cole in the 2nd(I worked for an ECAC team that year, saw plenty of Cole).

1999
Lundmark, Brendl

I was all for those picks, no one, no one, saw that draft being as bad as it ended up

2000
Kris Kolanos

We had no 1st rounder this year, 2nd round my choice was Ben Knopp. We picked Filip Novak.

2001
Igor Knyazev

I liked the Blackburn pick but was a fan of Chuck Kobasew so he was my pick. 2nd round my guys were Mike Cammaleri and Noah Welch, but was happy enough with Tyutin.

2002
Steve Eminger, Jakub Koreis

Hated trading that years first. Wouldve taken Alex Steen, no question. Lee Falardeau was a pick I widely panned, wanted Jarret Stoll or Jiri Hudler.

2003
Konstantin Glazachev, Mike Egener

I liked Phaneuf, Parise, Richards or Carter. Did NOT want Jessiman. I knew Phaneuf would go early so I was looking for Parise to be our 1st. 2nd round I liked Mike Egener but he was taken early.

2004
Rosty Olesz, Boris Valabik, AJ Thelen, Roman Volosheko

I wanted Olesz with our first, in the 2nd I liked Roman Voloshenko, Brandon Dubinsky, Alex Goligoski, David Booth, Grant Lewis and Mark Tobin(FYI,at the time was one of Sid Crosby linemates and best friends). I hated the Olver and Byers picks.

2005
Kenndal Mcardle

I was hoping for a trade up to get Jack Johnson, but Staal more than makes up for it. 2nd round wanted Paul Stastny.

2006
Dennis Persson

I was hoping for Chris Stewart or Yuri Alexandrov in the 1st, Anisimov in the 2nd. I had Anisimov in my top 20 that year, very happy when we got him at 54.

2007
Nick Petrecki

Loved the Cherapanov pick. 2nd round I was hoping for Oscar Moller.

2008
Too early, no names come to mind.

I was on board with Edge's selection, Jordan Eberle. Also liked Tedenby and Carlson for our 1st. 2nd round wanted Stepan, Jared Staal or Kiril Petrov. I was the first person to mention Stepan on these boards after seeing him play in Shattuck that winter.

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03-02-2011, 11:49 PM
  #262
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On Sauer:

I believe there were 2 things that held him back:

1) He was either always just coming back from an injury or injured. He would start a season after ending the season before with some sort of surgery or he would be out for 2 months missing an opportunity to be called up or be returning from injury when one was needed.

2) He looked like a Girardi-type in the AHL, but no one thought it would transition perfectly straight to the NHL. It is a really unique situation. He was a top-4 defenseman in the AHL, and he is a top-4 defenseman in the NHL as a rookie. That practically NEVER happens. Normally you have to be a top-pairing defenseman in the AHL in order to even sniff the NHL.

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03-03-2011, 12:56 AM
  #263
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In regards to Sauer not being called up, in additition to injuries maybe it was best for his development and needed the extra time. Being injured so much any consistant playing time he got was huge for his development. Wouldnt think too hard about it. Maybe the team actually knows what it's doing.... doubt it though
Imagine he leads the team with + 11, flat out awesome.
Any prospects play tonight?

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03-03-2011, 01:30 AM
  #264
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In regards to Sauer not being called up, in additition to injuries maybe it was best for his development and needed the extra time. Being injured so much any consistant playing time he got was huge for his development. Wouldnt think too hard about it. Maybe the team actually knows what it's doing.... doubt it though
Imagine he leads the team with + 11, flat out awesome.
Any prospects play tonight?
Just Horak, he was scoreless

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03-03-2011, 06:36 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
And Dubinsky, he was one of the 4 2nds we had in 2004. Lucky he panned out, if we had one pick that round it would've been Darin Olver only. Meh, what do I know, I liked Goligoski and Booth, but the experts knew better
Dubinsky was actually from the Edmonton 2nd. The Rangers traded down twice, added two 3rd rounders, (which allowed them to take Bahensky and Billy Ryan), and then took Dubi. Yeah, I liked Booth, too.


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03-03-2011, 06:40 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why don't you tell us about all the players you liked that didn't amount to squat? Selective reporting
There were plenty on this board that did not like our selections in 2004. The selection of Olver stigmatized enough people towards the selection of Stepan. Frankly, the Rangers got lucky, as, due to his size at the time, Dubinsky was thought of a 3rd line pest.

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03-03-2011, 08:48 AM
  #267
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I think there were some concerns about Sauer's footspeed as well. He's not all that fast and it always seemed to me like he was one of those guys you'd worry about dealing with fast forwards at the NHL level

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03-03-2011, 10:02 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I always forget Stast was a 2nd round pick.

I can only imagine if we grabbed him.
We did. His name is Derek Stepan.

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03-03-2011, 10:04 AM
  #269
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We did. His name is Derek Stepan.
Very similar players and career paths. Stastny jumped right in at a PPG start but no one can deny Stepan has had the best rookie season of any Ranger since Lundqvist/Prucha. Better than Staals, Anisimovs, Dubis, Callys, ect.

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03-03-2011, 11:13 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
And Dubinsky, he was one of the 4 2nds we had in 2004. Lucky he panned out, if we had one pick that round it would've been Darin Olver only. Meh, what do I know, I liked Goligoski and Booth, but the experts knew better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13
2008
Too early, no names come to mind.

I was on board with Edge's selection, Jordan Eberle. Also liked Tedenby and Carlson for our 1st. 2nd round wanted Stepan, Jared Staal or Kiril Petrov. I was the first person to mention Stepan on these boards after seeing him play in Shattuck that winter.

You didn't want Stepan in the 2nd round in 2008. You mentioned him as a later round pick in your preview but after we took him you went on to compare him to Darin Olver. Glad the experts knew better there.

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03-03-2011, 12:37 PM
  #271
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Very fair and valid argument. He is the only prospect where anything he does has to be overly scrutinized. Let him develop. If he ends up with more points than last year than that is a good thing. The organization is very high on him. I will take their opinion, especially Clarke and Gorton over quite a few people.
I do not disagree with your points necessary, but as regards Clarke and Gorton I want to add a few things:

First of all, in a first round 1/3 of the players on avg are real busts, and those bust are pretty well spread from 1 to 30. Some years there are only around 7-8 busts, others 20 basically.

My point, if a pro-scout pick a player in a first round, no matter what, odds are prett big that that player is a bust. That's the playing rules. And it's something a lot of people on these boards forget.

Second of all, a scout have no reason what-so-ever to say anything negative about a selection he have made. I have NEVER heard a scout say anything neg about a selection and I've seen plenty of busts being picked.

Third of all, hockey players develop tremendously from 18 to at least 23 y/o, since hockey is such a complex sport, it like two sports really, compared to say basketball it's like playing basketball but then you also have to skate at the same time. It takes time to learn that.


So, HINDSIGHT is very important. Take a draft in June 2010, if the same kids were drafted in June 2009 instead there probably are a ton of guys picked in 2010 who wasn't even on the map in 2009.

We got hindsight. Anyone could watch Zetterberg in the WJC and see that he was a great prospect, he was on par with the Sedins who went 2 and 3, just six month after his draft were 29 gm's/ scout dep passed on him 7 times each. You and I could see it. Had the same draft been held in June 2000 instead of June 1999 he goes top 10-15 instead of late 7th round.

My point is just, I wouldn't be cocky at a draft table in a NHL entry draft. But when watching kids 6 month/12 month/18 month/24 month after those selections I am sometimes very cocky, not because I think I am a better scout then the pro's, but because I have hindsight so to speak.

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03-03-2011, 12:44 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
On Sauer:

I believe there were 2 things that held him back:

1) He was either always just coming back from an injury or injured. He would start a season after ending the season before with some sort of surgery or he would be out for 2 months missing an opportunity to be called up or be returning from injury when one was needed.

2) He looked like a Girardi-type in the AHL, but no one thought it would transition perfectly straight to the NHL. It is a really unique situation. He was a top-4 defenseman in the AHL, and he is a top-4 defenseman in the NHL as a rookie. That practically NEVER happens. Normally you have to be a top-pairing defenseman in the AHL in order to even sniff the NHL.
I am not a Torts backer, but as regards to Sauer I do not think he had plenty of options.

Sauers first real camp for Renney, he was awesome. I saw plenty o him and held him very very high after it. But then under Torts we only had one position for him, as a RD next to Mara.

Then the year after he was hurt.

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03-03-2011, 01:02 PM
  #273
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We got hindsight. Anyone could watch Zetterberg in the WJC and see that he was a great prospect, he was on par with the Sedins who went 2 and 3, just six month after his draft were 29 gm's/ scout dep passed on him 7 times each. You and I could see it. Had the same draft been held in June 2000 instead of June 1999 he goes top 10-15 instead of late 7th round.

My point is just, I wouldn't be cocky at a draft table in a NHL entry draft. But when watching kids 6 month/12 month/18 month/24 month after those selections I am sometimes very cocky, not because I think I am a better scout then the pro's, but because I have hindsight so to speak.
Yeah, and when looking at kids 18 years old, most of the time scouts are also trying to not just evaluate their current skills, but how they will grow and apply those skills at the NHL level. You can sometimes see players who are really skilled against their age group, but lack something in their game and that keeps them from ever being pro players. But by god they were awesome when they were 18

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03-03-2011, 02:02 PM
  #274
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Y'know Bluenote at some point when 4 or 5 guys are all telling you the same thing maybe there's something to it. Besides as two of us have said there IS a smidgeon of value in analyzing situations and context but when it's done ad nauseum it loses its meaning. Not to mention McI is not an offensive pick so why do you point out secondary assists for a non- offensive pick? That's like complaining Kreider doesn't shut down top lines when he's suppossed to be more of a speedy, big scoring forward...That's not even posting style related I just think it's horrible scouting.

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03-03-2011, 02:02 PM
  #275
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You didn't want Stepan in the 2nd round in 2008. You mentioned him as a later round pick in your preview but after we took him you went on to compare him to Darin Olver. Glad the experts knew better there.
I don't recall it that way. I thought the downside of the pick was another Olver, but ultimately I was down with it.

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