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Old
03-03-2011, 10:19 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by DareDoiler View Post
Oilers
67 Gilbert Brule 24 5-11 186
13 Andrew Cogliano 23 5-10 188
14 Jordan Eberle 20 6-0 185
16 Colin Fraser 26 6-1 194
89 Sam Gagner 21 5-10 191
4 Taylor Hall 19 6-1 194
10 Shawn Horcoff 32 6-1 207
22 Jean-Francois Jacques 25 6-3 231
33 Steve MacIntyre 30 6-5 250
23 Linus Omark 24 5-10 174
91 Magnus Paajarvi 19 6-3 200
85 Liam Reddox 25 5-11 178
83 Ales Hemsky 27 6-0 184
28 Ryan Jones 26 6-0 205


Blackhawks
29 Bryan Bickell 6' 4" 223
36 Dave Bolland 6' 0" 181
22 Troy Brouwer 6' 2" 214
28 Jake Dowell 6' 0" 199
67 Michael Frolik 6' 1" 196
81 Marian Hossa 6' 1" 210
17 Ryan Johnson 6' 1" 199
88 Patrick Kane 5' 10" 178
82 Tomas Kopecky 6' 3" 203
15 Fernando Pisani 6' 1" 205
32 John Scott 6' 8" 258
10 Patrick Sharp "A" 6' 1" 199
25 Viktor Stalberg 6' 3" 210
19 Jonathan Toews "C" 6' 2" 210


Amongst forwards, The 2010 chicago blackhawks (who won the cup) have 7 players under 200 pounds. The Oilers have 9. Not a substantial difference I wouldnt say

The team average in weight, among forwards are:

Blackhawks: 206.07 lbs

Oilers: 197.64 lbs

We are certainly "smaller", but really 8.43 lbs is not much difference. For god sakes, can people stop griping about size.

.
This has been taken apart before. The size and weight of Smac and JFJ who barely ever touch the ice skews the average up substantially.

Yes theres also a substantial difference in how many players are big versus small. In indicating the 7 vs 9 players under 200lbs you include 3 Blackhawks who are 199lbs. Conversely MPS, listed by you as 200lbs(I doubt he actually is)gets cited as one of our big players.

Lets play with numbers a bit. Forwards under 195lbs:

Oilers 9 Hawks 2 Look how different that figure is with just slightly different cutoff.

Another figure Forwards under 190lbs: Oilers 6 Hawks 2.

The difference is very substantial.

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Old
03-03-2011, 10:20 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
If you're fine with giving Hemsky a long-term deal you better not be *****ing when he is sitting on the IR. Averaging 63 games a year isn't something I want out of my star player especially if its a long-term deal.
you know what i dont want?
1 star player having to overwork with some teenagers and pathetic veterans who dont take a target on their back cause they cant play a lick of real hockey.

"oh no Hemsky gets injured so much cause hes the only one who tries to get anything done offensively at a legit clip as a professional."

let Hemsky leave and watch Hall take the same beatings in this pathetic matrix of players. or just keep dreaming Sam Gagner isnt acting like a Rob Schremp out on the ice staying out of danger areas cause hes too slow and doesnt think fast enough to not be an opportunistic vulture.

some thought the nuclear deterrent was the answer. no, its called "having depth in your roster to take pressure off other lines/players so they arent one-dimensional offensively, creating a target on your best players back."

keep dreaming though for a future where your star isnt going to get hammered trying to create things... might happen in 5-6 years.

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Old
03-03-2011, 10:21 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CorpseFX View Post
why isnt this guy maximizing his talents for my consumerism-nerd-fandom? i cant believe he gets hurt! what is this guy, a loser? i cant believe we didnt get maximum value so i can be entertained in the future of my boring life.

seriously, some of the comments here for a dude who plays in dirty areas and takes beatings to create plays on a PATHETIC team - for your goofy city - is beyond hilarious.

i kind of hope they do lose him for nothing just to slap the whiny fans in the face.
Agreed untill your last part haha.

Oh how soon people forget how much fun it is to have Nilsson and O'Sullivan on this team, maybe bring them back? Then they can really appreciate Hemsky.

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Old
03-03-2011, 11:09 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SerbianEagle View Post
btw, Hemsky most likely to play tonight.
That's great news.

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03-03-2011, 11:15 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by CorpseFX View Post
you know what i dont want?
1 star player having to overwork with some teenagers and pathetic veterans who dont take a target on their back cause they cant play a lick of real hockey.

"oh no Hemsky gets injured so much cause hes the only one who tries to get anything done offensively at a legit clip as a professional."

let Hemsky leave and watch Hall take the same beatings in this pathetic matrix of players. or just keep dreaming Sam Gagner isnt acting like a Rob Schremp out on the ice staying out of danger areas cause hes too slow and doesnt think fast enough to not be an opportunistic vulture.

some thought the nuclear deterrent was the answer. no, its called "having depth in your roster to take pressure off other lines/players so they arent one-dimensional offensively, creating a target on your best players back."

keep dreaming though for a future where your star isnt going to get hammered trying to create things... might happen in 5-6 years.
I never said you don't need depth, but that's why I wanted to keep Penner over Hemmer. And what kind shots is Hemsky going to take on the IR anyway?

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Old
03-03-2011, 11:19 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
When people think of the Wings, they think multiple cups, which is exactly why they are thrown out there by the no hitting - no fighting crowd as a template for what a team should look like, of course they dont want to mention that the real powerhouse Red Wings, you know, the team that won multiple cups and not just one, had players like Shanahan, Chelios, and McCarty on it, and they had physical wars against teams like Dallas and Colorado.

There is no doubt that they have a good team now, but there is also little doubt that they get injured, a lot.

Another thing to think about is if the Wing template for success is the way to go, there should be more than one team doing it. And there is. They are called the Edmonton Oilers. They openly stated for years that they were following the Wings model. We dont need size or toughness they said. That is yesterday's nhl. In the new nhl, its all about speed and skill. So we proceeded to draft and acquire that type of player whenever we could.

The end result is we have/had a team that is small, soft, and oft injured. Oh, and we are in last place two years running. Yay.
In the end, what I'm trying to say is the idea of a winning 'template' is incorrect. You need Winners and Bi-Winners

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Old
03-03-2011, 11:26 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This has been taken apart before. The size and weight of Smac and JFJ who barely ever touch the ice skews the average up substantially.

Yes theres also a substantial difference in how many players are big versus small. In indicating the 7 vs 9 players under 200lbs you include 3 Blackhawks who are 199lbs. Conversely MPS, listed by you as 200lbs(I doubt he actually is)gets cited as one of our big players.

Lets play with numbers a bit. Forwards under 195lbs:

Oilers 9 Hawks 2 Look how different that figure is with just slightly different cutoff.

Another figure Forwards under 190lbs: Oilers 6 Hawks 2.

The difference is very substantial.
Like I've said a million times, if there was truth to the size equals success argument, there would be statistical evidence to back this up. There is none. Size does not equal winning.

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:01 PM
  #83
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trust me its like with the leafs, you guys get slammed by every other team, and for the leafs, every other team decides to show up while playing the leafs, i dont get it. Edmonton needs someone better then zach "the big retard" stortini, you guys dont have anyone to back up your players, blake wheeler woulda been a good fit on your team, get jim vandermeer at the end of the season, not very good but will beat the hell outta anyone

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:02 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SerbianEagle View Post
btw, Hemsky most likely to play tonight.
I don't think that is the case..

From Twitter:

@dantencer
Dan Tencer
Renney says approximately 2-3 weeks for Hemsky.

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:09 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by mindmasher View Post
Like I've said a million times, if there was truth to the size equals success argument, there would be statistical evidence to back this up. There is none. Size does not equal winning.
Tell that to the Bruins and Flyers come playoff time and see what size of players they are dressing. Lets see how many clubs they steamroll through.

An interesting study would be to see how much teams beef up for the playoffs and put some extra muscle into the lineup for the hardfought playoff games.

I do think at the playoff level of intensity and attrition and where less infractions and obstructions get called that size plays a role.

Saying that size doesn't factor as a variable because theres no stats to back it up is poor science and you know it. Because you know hockey statistics are in their infancy and to this point do a poor job explaining the complexities and results in the game.

For example If physics couldn't explain a blackhole is this proof positive they never existed?

You invoked a basic fallacy and you know better. I'm amazed really that you offered up that deductive reasoning and conclusion that is way off being a proof.


Last edited by Replacement: 03-03-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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Old
03-03-2011, 12:09 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
Injury prone? Who wouldn't be with all the abuse the guy gets... Seriously, This team needs to get mean and start targeting opposing stars. Let the whole league know that if anyone touches our players, we will target their stars. And if that doesn't stop them, that's when Smack goes head hunting.

Teams are starting to target our young players now. It's only a matter of time before one or more of them gets a serious injury.
And if they do something, TSN will bash them for protecting their players.

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"He just ate up Robyn Regehr for dinner, a spectacular play by Hemsky, and Robyn Regehr has got doo doo all over his face" - Rod Phillips call on Hemsky's goal vs the Flames
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03-03-2011, 12:09 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Dabomb View Post
I don't think that is the case..

From Twitter:

@dantencer
Dan Tencer
Renney says approximately 2-3 weeks for Hemsky.
Ugh, this is really going to hurt now. I guess totally new lines should be expected in the next few games.

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:16 PM
  #88
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He didn't skate this morning, and there is no word from the MRI.

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:17 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope4theFuture View Post
LOL @ the people saying we should have traded Hemsky. Had we done that, this board would have imploded with the return we would have got. So frustrating that all some posters seem capable of doing is *****ing and complaining.
If Hemsky had been traded, posters would be *****ing and complaining that the wrong player got traded. Posters ***** and complain about management at who they traded. They forget at who stays. BTW, Hemsky was never shopped.

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03-03-2011, 12:23 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
If Hemsky had been traded, posters would be *****ing and complaining that the wrong player got traded. Posters ***** and complain about management at who they traded. They forget at who stays. BTW, Hemsky was never shopped.
Yup, now everyone will bash Tambo for not trading Hemsky.

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #91
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If Hemsky had been traded, posters would be *****ing and complaining that the wrong player got traded. Posters ***** and complain about management at who they traded. They forget at who stays. BTW, Hemsky was never shopped.
There was going to be complaining either way. If one was moved, both or none.

My standpoint from the start has been we should look at moving one or both based on the market and the fact that going forward we probably need to make room. I also stated I prefer to keep Penner over Hemsky, based on size, contract going forward and injury history.

I also stated that we shouldn't be shocked if we suck even more when one is dealt, because odds are we don't get much more than prospect and picks for either guy.


Hemsky getting injuried this quick just makes me shake my head. I figured he'd go down at some point this year, but not one game after the trade deadline. Somewhere DL is smiling that he didn't give up Schenn+ for Hemsky.

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03-03-2011, 12:36 PM
  #92
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The last thing that we need is to lock him up long term and then to see the injuries really affect his production ala Horcoff

The old excuse machine for Horcoff. The only guy that consistently gets excused for crap play due to 'injury' Hemsky gets hurt, when he gets back he averages his usual near point a game. Horcoff gets hurt 2 years ago and it affects his play badly. Teflon Shawn indeed.
Yep, one in the same with ol' Shawn and Ales. Difference is one has a horrible contract that will ensure he dies an Oiler - the other can and should be dumped to avoid another horrible contract of a player that plays the European schedule most years.

It is time to learn from the Horcoff mistake and say goodbye to Mr. Hemsky - I won't ask him to wave on his way out, however, as he might pop his shoulder out.

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03-03-2011, 12:37 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
There was going to be complaining either way. If one was moved, both or none.

My standpoint from the start has been we should look at moving one or both based on the market and the fact that going forward we probably need to make room. I also stated I prefer to keep Penner over Hemsky, based on size, contract going forward and injury history.

I also stated that we shouldn't be shocked if we suck even more when one is dealt, because odds are we don't get much more than prospect and picks for either guy.


Hemsky getting injuried this quick just makes me shake my head. I figured he'd go down at some point this year, but not one game after the trade deadline. Somewhere DL is smiling that he didn't give up Schenn+ for Hemsky.
yup, the guy is made of glass...sad but true

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03-03-2011, 12:37 PM
  #94
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Oilers announce contract extension with Ales Hemsky 7 years at 6.8 per year

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:43 PM
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Thats funny. Tambi almost did a deal that would have sent Smid to Nash for Blum. We keep Hemmer over Penner at the trade deadline. The day after, Blum injures Hemmer. Crazy bad karma.

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03-03-2011, 12:43 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Oilers announce contract extension with Ales Hemsky 7 years at 6.8 per year
Really? Link?

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:44 PM
  #97
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Thats funny. Tambi almost did a deal that would have sent Smid to Nash for Blum. We keep Hemmer over Penner at the trade deadline. The day after, Blum injures Hemmer. Crazy bad karma.
I don't think that Blum thing was every talked about.

And Hemsky can't re-sign until July 1st.

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03-03-2011, 12:47 PM
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Oilers announce contract extension with Ales Hemsky 7 years at 6.8 per year
I'll flip if this is true.

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03-03-2011, 12:47 PM
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Yep, one in the same with ol' Shawn and Ales. Difference is one has a horrible contract that will ensure he dies an Oiler - the other can and should be dumped to avoid another horrible contract of a player that plays the European schedule most years.

It is time to learn from the Horcoff mistake and say goodbye to Mr. Hemsky - I won't ask him to wave on his way out, however, as he might pop his shoulder out.
Except Hemsky is 10 times the hockey player Horcoff is and displays it by playing that way any time he is not injured and playing well when he comes back from injuries. If Hemsky asks for 7 million a year we can think about 'dumping him'

I fully expect our management to resign him long term as they should since they decided not to move him at the deadline when he was at his all time high value. Knowing our management though he will either walk in FA or get traded for a pick next year at the deadline with a big "We were caught totally off guard by what he was asking?" bleating.

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Old
03-03-2011, 12:48 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Oilers announce contract extension with Ales Hemsky 7 years at 6.8 per year
Well they would have but Hemsky couldn't sign the contract due to his injured shoulder.

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