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The Meszaros Trade: Has it been worth it?

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Old
03-03-2011, 07:29 AM
  #26
phillyfanatic
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Loved him as a Sen. Thought he was the victim of a bad team in Tampa and thought we stole him for a second round (basically third round) pick. $4M is a little high, but given the other options we had to improve our team this year - I thought Meszaros was a great move and I love it.

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03-03-2011, 07:56 AM
  #27
LEIFey
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He's been great, and I think he's only slightly overpaid (wish he was paid more like Carle). My biggest qualm is that I think Holmgren overpaid in acquiring him. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a huge market for him, so Holmgren could have haggled Yzerman down a little.

Oh yeah, I forgot, Holmgren doesn't haggle and always seems to tip the GMs he does business with.

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03-03-2011, 08:22 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
Oh yeah, I forgot, Holmgren doesn't haggle and always seems to tip the GMs he does business with.
"This bloke won't haggle!!"
"Won't haggle???"

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03-03-2011, 09:03 AM
  #29
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Wasn't worth what we traded him for? Basically a third round pick??

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03-03-2011, 10:00 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Wasn't worth what we traded him for? Basically a third round pick??
And the extra expense of his large salary.

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03-03-2011, 10:03 AM
  #31
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The trade has been fine, and will be better when he replaces Carle in the top 4 next season.

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Old
03-03-2011, 10:09 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherHockeyFan View Post
And the extra expense of his large salary.
I don't have it with me, but the Hockey News had a feature on the Flyers' D recently. Rated best in the league by, IIRC, an informal poll of players/coaches/GMs.

They also broke down how much each team spends on D and what % of their total budget is spent on D. The Flyers were the highest spenders, like Vancouver and Detroit....only slightly higher in total spending and % than the other top teams.

Currently, the top three teams overall in the standings also spend the most on their D.

Discuss.

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03-03-2011, 10:14 AM
  #33
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Mesz has been great this season, I dont think that his cap hit is an issue.
I think he'll be on our blueline for a long time.

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03-03-2011, 10:53 AM
  #34
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Loved the deal from day one, love it even more now. And you guys knack on him saying "weaker" competition, but when him and O'D have been out against top teams lines... They've done well.

I'd trust Meszaros will be a mainstay on our blue line for a long time.

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03-03-2011, 11:02 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Loved the deal from day one, love it even more now. And you guys knack on him saying "weaker" competition, but when him and O'D have been out against top teams lines... They've done well.

I'd trust Meszaros will be a mainstay on our blue line for a long time.
And they do play against the other teams' top players on the PK too, it's not like we have to hide them.

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Old
03-03-2011, 11:10 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Is it crazy to think Mez will be our #1 when Pronger can't anchor the first pairing anymore?
Yes.

Hesitant about the trade to begin with but Homer made the right move. That being said he is overpaid and not a #1 pairing d-man.

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03-03-2011, 11:40 AM
  #37
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I still don't understand how trading a second round pick which may or may not turn into a NHL player for a 25year old top4 dman who has history of being able to cash in offensively and play solid defensively while being a physical beast is a bad trade.
Especially the factor age makes this trade a very good one.
Meszaros has the chance to play on this team for another 10 years, same story with Versteeg, it's not like the Flyers are mortgaging their future by giving up picks and prospects for players in their thirties.
Homer continues to add to the core of this hockey team and it will stay competitive for years to come because of.

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03-03-2011, 11:43 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Is it crazy to think Mez will be our #1 when Pronger can't anchor the first pairing anymore?
I wouldnt want Mezaros to be our #1, not that I dont think he`s a good player, but when he was #1 and even #2/3 he struggled a lot and didnt regain form until he came to Philly.

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03-03-2011, 12:18 PM
  #39
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To me, the best of all possible worlds is that the Flyers, as defending SC champions , deal Carle for a decent return (early 2nd + decent prospect) and ice a D corps next year of:

Pronger Coburn
Timonen Meszaros
O'Donnell / cheap vet Dman Gustaffson/Bartulis/rookie D

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03-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Wasn't worth what we traded him for? Basically a third round pick??
We didn't know that back then. I'm not saying that a 2nd isn't fair for Meszaros, but I think Holmgren could have gotten him cheaper. The deal worked out great for us, but it could have worked out even better.

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03-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
And they do play against the other teams' top players on the PK too, it's not like we have to hide them.
Forgot to add this. Good point.

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Old
03-03-2011, 01:07 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
We didn't know that back then. I'm not saying that a 2nd isn't fair for Meszaros, but I think Holmgren could have gotten him cheaper. The deal worked out great for us, but it could have worked out even better.
Based on what exactly? Discussions with Yzerman and Homer? Seriously, to make a trade, both sides have to agree on the price.

Since the deal was a 2nd, we have to assume that, having been offered a 3rd or 4th, Yzerman balked.

Compare the cost/value of Meszaros (young, 2 years left on contract) with the price Boston paid for Kaberle, a very arguably inferior expiring UFA player, which cost a 1st and a 1st round prospect.

Homer got great value in that trade, pending of course, waiting 5 years to see if the guy Tampa picks with it turns out to be a player or a bust.

The same applies to the Versteeg deal. We didn't get an aging scrub. We got a good young player with his best years ahead of him.

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Old
03-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Yes.

Hesitant about the trade to begin with but Homer made the right move. That being said he is overpaid and not a #1 pairing d-man.
He's probably a bit overpaid. But IMO he's better than Carle and Coburn, and his pay reflects that. He's not Pronger or Timonen, but not many guys are...I think he's fine as the 2nd guy on your top pair, but ideally you'd like him to be able to anchor your 2nd pair. He's still a young guy though, maybe with more experience he can become that kind of player.

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03-03-2011, 01:20 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
He's probably a bit overpaid. But IMO he's better than Carle and Coburn, and his pay reflects that. He's not Pronger or Timonen, but not many guys are...I think he's fine as the 2nd guy on your top pair, but ideally you'd like him to be able to anchor your 2nd pair. He's still a young guy though, maybe with more experience he can become that kind of player.
Disagree with the Carle comparison and think that he and Coburn are pretty much equal. Carle is a very underrated d-man on this team, but he also does not have the size of Coburn or Meszaros.

Meszaros is a nice defenseman and may have a little higher ceiling over the next couple years but he can be brutal on the point similar to Coburn trying to handle the puck. Coburn is a better open ice skater but Meszaros has a much better shot. I like it the way things are and would not be opposed to moving any of Carle, Coburn, or Meszaros if the right deal presented itself, but Meszaros is at best a 2nd pairing d-man, but not the anchor.

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Old
03-03-2011, 01:24 PM
  #45
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Loved it from day one. Thought he could turn it around on our team.

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Old
03-03-2011, 01:25 PM
  #46
Larry44
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Forgot to add this. Good point.
Pronger and Timonen still ge the most SH/TOI/G and PP/TOI/G, but Meszaros is 3rd in PP time and a close 4th (with Coburn) in SH time.

Mes is 5th in total TOI/G, but the fact he's getting over 20 and OD is getting over 16 means that Pronger and Timonen are only at 22.5 this year instead of 25+ and 23 last year.

Carle is down 2 minutes, and Coburn 30 secs/game over last year too.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

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Old
03-03-2011, 01:29 PM
  #47
LEIFey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Based on what exactly? Discussions with Yzerman and Homer? Seriously, to make a trade, both sides have to agree on the price.

Since the deal was a 2nd, we have to assume that, having been offered a 3rd or 4th, Yzerman balked.

Compare the cost/value of Meszaros (young, 2 years left on contract) with the price Boston paid for Kaberle, a very arguably inferior expiring UFA player, which cost a 1st and a 1st round prospect.

Homer got great value in that trade, pending of course, waiting 5 years to see if the guy Tampa picks with it turns out to be a player or a bust.

The same applies to the Versteeg deal. We didn't get an aging scrub. We got a good young player with his best years ahead of him.
It's not like there was huge demand for Meszaros and I seem to recall him being on his way out in Tampa. That seems like a recipe for underpayment. Holmgren made a good trade, but is it really that unbelievable that I think he could have gotten a better deal if he'd haggled a bit? When was the last time that Holmgren haggled anyone down?

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Old
03-03-2011, 02:03 PM
  #48
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It's irrelevant that he is playing on the 3rd pairing. That's just a reflection of a deep team. He may be overpaid for a 3rd pair guy, but is paid about right for a Top 4.

What IS relevant is whether or not he is capable of playing well in a Top 4 role. He doesnt even have to ANCHOR one of the top 2 pairings .. even if Prongs and Timo do the anchoring and he complements them well, that is sufficient.

On a contending team with a good defense corps, a Top 4 Dman always gets at least 3.5 and often over 4 mil. Check Brad Stuart of Wings, any of Hamhuis/Ballard/Salo/Bieksa of the Nucks, Hjalmarrson of Hawks. Three point five to four point five seems to be the range, which makes the median 4 mil.

Why am I pretending he's a Top 4 ? Cuz he most probably will be soon. Odds are one of Coburn or Carle will leave, with probably Carle being the departee.

Which would make him a Top 4 partner of either Prongs or Timo. Since the Timo-Coburn pairing seems to be a long standing one, Vegas odds point to Prongs-Mesz.

My advice? Forget he's third pairing. Consider his potential as a Top 4. THEN look at his salary/cap hit.

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Old
03-03-2011, 02:23 PM
  #49
Gert B Frobe
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The trade has been fine, and will be better when he replaces Carle in the top 4 next season.
You beat me to it. I thought getting him was a great move. I just wish he were playing with Pronger now and Carle was sent elsewhere for a 3rd pairing guy better than Bartulis or whoever the guy is they just picked up off of waivers. Holmgren could have used the money he spent on Jody "punch my face in" Shelley.

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Old
03-03-2011, 03:06 PM
  #50
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I still don't like the idea of them acquiring a $4M defenseman for the third pairing and I don't think he is worth his cap hit.




Yes. He is playing well, but his success is from playing gainst weak competition. He is clearly benefiting from being on a deep team. I think he'd struggle the way he did before if he is supposed to be a go to guy on defense.
he was 23 y/o when TB tried to make him the go to guy. That was there fault. Who makes a 23 y/o there #1 dman?
Give him another two years and he'll be a different player as Pronger gets older.

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