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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:41 AM
  #26
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If we miss the playoffs again, headed backward after 7 years of a youth movement, and 2 years in a row for Torts as full-season coach, then yes Torts should be replaced.

That also means there is a serious kink in our rebuild, and Slats should go as well.

And the new management should be prepared to move the pieces that aren't panning out, and be prepared to extend the rebuild.

Since none of this has any chance in hell of happening even if we fall to 10th in the Conference this season, none of it matters.

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03-04-2011, 12:42 AM
  #27
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our best forward on the ice was Brandon Dubinsky, who most would argue is a 2nd line winger.

thats a HUGE problem for this team.

Wheres the offensive talent?

If Dubi is your 2nd line winger, youve got a strong team. if Dubi is your superstar forward, youre sccreeewwweeeddd

Rangers need to sign Richards, need to get Gabby going, and frankly they need a 3rd offensive star to boot.

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03-04-2011, 12:42 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
This team played over its head for the first half of the season and less so since then. Not sure how a roster of limited talent is Tort's fault. He'll be back for sure.
I wouldint say there is limited talent here, def not enough to say were not a playoff team, and a team like Car is. There is no way we should miss the playoffs the way our team was going at the start of the season. We have a top tier goalie, top tier D men like Stall, Sauer, Girardi, Rozi (wait we traded him for Wolski Mr softy). Anyway we should still make it. Like i said before Prospal has got to be taken out of the line-up and Wolski is only servicable on the line he is on, because Stepan is playing good hockey.

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03-04-2011, 12:45 AM
  #29
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The real question is: who would do better with this lineup?

My answer: no one.

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
our best forward on the ice was Brandon Dubinsky, who most would argue is a 2nd line winger.

thats a HUGE problem for this team.

Wheres the offensive talent?

If Dubi is your 2nd line winger, youve got a strong team. if Dubi is your superstar forward, youre sccreeewwweeeddd

Rangers need to sign Richards, need to get Gabby going, and frankly they need a 3rd offensive star to boot.
So whos going to take our spot. Tor, ya they have Kessel but i wouldint say hes much better than Dubi in fact i would take Dubi over Kessel especially without a centermen for Kessel. Than theres Buff, ya they have Vanek but who else that u would call a top line guy. The point is these top guys just are not everywhere. If u look in the East Wash have 2 1st line guys, Philly 2 or 3 as of now. We have decent depth in Prust, Avery, Feds a strong young D and a good goalie, were not as bad as people r saying we are. I do think the lose of wraparounds is coming back to haunt this team if we do miss the playoffs. Sure hes not first liner but another 25-30 goals, size would have been key right about now. We havent replaced him and its hurting us. Is he gone even for playoffs like i never here anything.


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03-04-2011, 01:06 AM
  #31
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I have a strong dislike for John Tortorella. I've said it many times--I didn't think he was right for the team when we hired him, and he has done absolutely nothing in his time here to make me think any differently.

I know we've been injured this season, and I know there's a dearth of legitimate finishing talent on the team. However, a coach's job is to get the absolute best out of the roster he is given, and to assemble the best lineup with said roster. I don't think he did that last year and I don't think he's doing it this year.

If we miss the playoffs this year, then I'll give him to the All Star break next season. Nothing more. He hasn't done anything in his time here to deserve more than that.

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03-04-2011, 01:44 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
So the question is of course; if not Torts then who?

The Rangers don't really have a young coach they're grooming in the system and other than Ken Hitchcock who is even out there? I suggested Bengt-Åke Gustafsson last year and got ripped for it.
Not sure who else is available, but Bob Hartley is a better option IMO. Much better winning record, even considering bad Thrashers teams, also won the Cup, alsonot afraid to scratch slacking stars like Kovalchuk.

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03-04-2011, 01:49 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
our best forward on the ice was Brandon Dubinsky, who most would argue is a 2nd line winger.

thats a HUGE problem for this team.

Wheres the offensive talent?

If Dubi is your 2nd line winger, youve got a strong team. if Dubi is your superstar forward, youre sccreeewwweeeddd

Rangers need to sign Richards, need to get Gabby going, and frankly they need a 3rd offensive star to boot.
I am not sure Richards is/would have been the answer to our prayer, but getting McCabe at the trade deadline is simply laughable. D is not our problem, scoring goals is. And if you have to go for a D - get Kaberle for pete's skake

Seeing that guys like Arnott, Versteeg, Peverley, Penner would have been available I would think, our inability to score goals should have been addressed.

again its Sather, and his tendency to try to convert falling stars into broadway studs.

It is really getting old to see this team run out of ideas after the all star break year after year, regardless who is the coach.

This really doesn't bode well. Now that playoffs are on the line (not so long ago we were the dark horse for the stanley cup) the scoring will be even more strained, or do we believe with the playoffs on the line Boyle will increase his scoring rate, or Dubinsky will discover he is a scorer.

Wolski, Frolov, Anisimov, (zherdev etc before them ) are what they are: talented but inconsistent, and not players who will thrive in Torts system.

it really gives me the blues!

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Old
03-04-2011, 01:52 AM
  #34
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Injuries are a poor excuse especially when the team struggled the most when most players returned from IR.

The mysterious Eminger scratches has pretty much killed the season. The Gilroy-Del Zotto pairing, the refusal to use some players on the PK and so on.

Tort really is to blame, there is no way Sather wouldn't go out and trade for some cheap veteran defenseman and a PK forward if Tortorella asked him. How do you play Gilroy over Eminger or Valentenko?

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03-04-2011, 01:57 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
I am not sure Richards is/would have been the answer to our prayer, but getting McCabe at the trade deadline is simply laughable. D is not our problem, scoring goals is. And if you have to go for a D - get Kaberle for pete's skake

Seeing that guys like Arnott, Versteeg, Peverley, Penner would have been available I would think, our inability to score goals should have been addressed.

again its Sather, and his tendency to try to convert falling stars into broadway studs.

It is really getting old to see this team run out of ideas after the all star break year after year, regardless who is the coach.

This really doesn't bode well. Now that playoffs are on the line (not so long ago we were the dark horse for the stanley cup) the scoring will be even more strained, or do we believe with the playoffs on the line Boyle will increase his scoring rate, or Dubinsky will discover he is a scorer.

Wolski, Frolov, Anisimov, (zherdev etc before them ) are what they are: talented but inconsistent, and not players who will thrive in Torts system.

it really gives me the blues!
you are wrong, Defense is also our problem, specifically Gilroy and a weak 3rd pairing and inexperienced 2nd pairing. Getting McCabe was a good move and should have been done a while ago instead of trying to squeeze offense out of Gilroy and Del Zotto. Even if McCabe doesn't work out we will have a better picture which UFA defenseman to target or instead make a trade.

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03-04-2011, 02:07 AM
  #36
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If we miss the playoffs Tortorella absolutely has to go. Missing the playoffs is absolutely humiliating and makes us no better than the Oilers. Is Torts working with a Stanley Cup team here? No he's not, but this is a playoff team.
yeah I think we had enough talent and depth even with tons of injuries to make the playoffs, but Tortorella decided to rely on the wrong players and the season went down the drain.

If we miss the playoffs again it is 3 humiliating finishes in a row - the loss to Capitals in the 1st round after going up 3-1, the missing the playoffs due to a shootout loss to Flyers, and now total collapse in the 2nd half of the season and total inability to put together winning streaks.

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03-04-2011, 02:15 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Coaching hasn't been a problem for the Rangers since the lockout.
Wrong, Coaching has been a Ranger problem since 1994. Renney was a brutal coach, and Tortorella is overrated average one.

We can't seem to ever hire a really good coach. I believe Bob Hartley is available and he is somewhat similar to Tortorella, but a lot better in pretty much every way.

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03-04-2011, 02:38 AM
  #38
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i like torts. the team needs more scoring. not his fault the rangers top scorer has been out and the second best guy is brian boyle. the team plays hard and smart and has a great future. totally satisfied with the direction of the rangers.

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03-04-2011, 02:40 AM
  #39
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If they can Torts, they can Torts but I can't really see how it changes anything. The team will be the same, the head office will be the same and barring something crazy happening, the results will be more or less the same.

I don't want to turn this into another Sather thread, but since he's been here they've changed coaches numerous times and nothing has happened, they've personnel numerous times and nothing has happened, maybe Dolan should wake up and smell the roses.

If Slats goes and a new GM brings in his own coach I'm ok with it, otherwise I can't see the point in firing another coach.

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03-04-2011, 03:49 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
I am not sure Richards is/would have been the answer to our prayer, but getting McCabe at the trade deadline is simply laughable. D is not our problem, scoring goals is. And if you have to go for a D - get Kaberle for pete's skake

Seeing that guys like Arnott, Versteeg, Peverley, Penner would have been available I would think, our inability to score goals should have been addressed.

again its Sather, and his tendency to try to convert falling stars into broadway studs.

It is really getting old to see this team run out of ideas after the all star break year after year, regardless who is the coach.

This really doesn't bode well. Now that playoffs are on the line (not so long ago we were the dark horse for the stanley cup) the scoring will be even more strained, or do we believe with the playoffs on the line Boyle will increase his scoring rate, or Dubinsky will discover he is a scorer.

Wolski, Frolov, Anisimov, (zherdev etc before them ) are what they are: talented but inconsistent, and not players who will thrive in Torts system.

it really gives me the blues!
terrible post

first of all you have to be a complete moron to not realize that McCabe was brought in for offense.

also those forwards you listed that would help the rangers scoring.. did u not see how much the teams had to give up for them? they aren`t even good..

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Old
03-04-2011, 05:12 AM
  #41
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Coaching isn't the problem. Youth and injuries are. This is a "true" rebuild that many of you have been yearning for for years and you STILL want immediate results - which is why the NYR never have patience enough to try a "true" rebuild. <sigh>

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03-04-2011, 05:25 AM
  #42
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I'm not a fan of Torts; I don't care for his personality or coaching style. But to blame this poor second half on him is absurd. What it has done is expose basic flaws in the team's young core talent level. He deserves another year.

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03-04-2011, 06:04 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
What a disaster 2nd half.

What a mishandling of personnel and misjudge of talent.

How is it everybody but Tortorella sees that Gilroy sucks?

Where is the "safe is death"?

Where are the winning streaks?
Canning Tortorella only serves to further legitimize what Sather has done here. Torts would just be another fall guy for inadequate management.

As it stands, the company line is likely going to blame injuries and laude the young core.

There's been one constant throughout the last 11 years. Pay no attention to behind the curtain.

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03-04-2011, 06:08 AM
  #44
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The real question is: who would do better with this lineup?

My answer: no one.

That's a bad question because there's no way to answer it.

I'm not a huge Torts fan. I don't think he's done a great job. I haven't seen the fire that he was going to bring (save in the playoffs in Washington and in post game press conferences). But I don't see what firing him really accomplishes.

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03-04-2011, 06:15 AM
  #45
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I'm not a fan of Torts; I don't care for his personality or coaching style. But to blame this poor second half on him is absurd. What it has done is expose basic flaws in the team's young core talent level. He deserves another year.
100% agreed. I don't like the guy, but he shouldn't be fired.

In fact, I'll take it a step further: he WON'T be fired. Coaches who lose 300+ man games to injury don't lose their jobs for missing the playoffs. Period.

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03-04-2011, 06:21 AM
  #46
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Whenever the team slumps or something like that happens-- clueless fans always point the blame on the coach. I guess Lindy Ruff should've been fire a few times over by now. You have to look at the talent that is available for a coach to work with.

John Torterella is a helluva coach; and this is coming from a guy who didn't want Renney fired.
So at least someone here has some sense. I guess there might be a reason to hang around here until the next season starts. A month ago there were "Tortorella for Jack Adams Award" threads. Now he has no Gaborik, no Drury, no Frolov... Staal's been hurt, Callahan's been hurt, Dubinsky's been hurt, Girardi missed games. How many rookies are on the team again? This happens every year when the team hits its slump.

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03-04-2011, 06:46 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
our best forward on the ice was Brandon Dubinsky, who most would argue is a 2nd line winger.

thats a HUGE problem for this team.

Wheres the offensive talent?

If Dubi is your 2nd line winger, youve got a strong team. if Dubi is your superstar forward, youre sccreeewwweeeddd

Rangers need to sign Richards, need to get Gabby going, and frankly they need a 3rd offensive star to boot.
Im glad youre finally starting to see the light regarding the talent deficiencies with this team since Jagr left.

Then again, wasnt Tortorella the guy that was going to "take the team to the next level" and "unlock that offensive potential" (your words when he was hired, certainly not mine).

And isnt this the coach that couldnt lead the team to the playoffs despite a virtuoso 42 goal performance by Gaborik last season?

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03-04-2011, 06:56 AM
  #48
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When we were playing really well in November and December some people on here were saying the exact opposite. Torts was a good coach, the right coach for this team, good motivator etc.

Not saying it was you but there were people on here saying that.

Bottom line is that this team was a 50/50 chance of making playoffs at the start of the season. The good start they had gave people false sense of hope. If you ask me the Rangers right now are where I expected them to be.
great post. i couldnt agree more....I actually didnt even expect this good a season....ive learned through a very long time of reading posts on this site,most everyone here will never be happy and will always complain and willalways thik they know more than the pros's.

people preach gets kids in, well the whole team is kids,still and starting growing and devleoping.They live a little past expectations and everyone expects the world.I have not one dissapointment about this season.These kids played good ,well great,gives me alot to look fwd to as a NYR fanThis is what happens in a rebuild people..wake up and get with the program..

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03-04-2011, 07:25 AM
  #49
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He's not going anywhere. There is a plan in place and he is the guy they picked to see it through.

Rangers weren't supposed to do anything this year anyway, that they've done this well is a surprise to me. You can only overachieve for so long.

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03-04-2011, 07:35 AM
  #50
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It's Sather stoopid

It's Sather that has to go.

Sather must go. I'm done with him.

He's had waaay too much time to put together a respectable organization, and we have nothing but mediocre supporting cast, and there is no reason to believe that will change in the next year or even 2.

We're gonna suck for 2 more years at least.

I think it's "letter writing time".

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