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Francois Gagnon: Tinordi and 1st round round draft pick for Penner

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Old
03-04-2011, 09:29 AM
  #1
WestIslander
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Francois Gagnon: Tinordi and 1st round round draft pick for Penner

Francois Gagnon said between periods on TSN last night that Penner was offered for Montreal's 1st round draft pick in 2011 and Jared Tinordi.

I am so glad this deal DID NOT take place and Edmonton dealt him to Los Angeles.

I see us landing another BIG forward in this year's draft and building around Tinordi and Subban going forward.


Last edited by WestIslander: 03-04-2011 at 09:45 AM.
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03-04-2011, 09:34 AM
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This was already mentioned and I'm really happy Gauthier didn't pull the trigger. Penner isn't a bad player but I'd never give up that much for him, not for him

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03-04-2011, 09:36 AM
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Andrei Kostitsyn > Penner

They guy had 16 mins of ice-time, 0 shots last night for the Kings who somehow managed to win 1- nil.

Honestly I just can't believe the rumors of PG trying to get rid of him at any cost, shouldn't he have been doing that with Gomez instead? I think Pierre got his names mixed up somehow. Anyway, not to de-rail the thread, but if Penner went for that much imagine what Andrei's value must be around the league.

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03-04-2011, 09:37 AM
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Did PG offer this or was this what Edmonton wanted?

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03-04-2011, 09:38 AM
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I'd have done it.

I never really liked the Tinordi pick. I think he'll be an okay player, but nothing outstanding. I watch the OHL a lot since I live inbetween two teams and I have the OHL Centre Ice package. I've been wrong before though.

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03-04-2011, 09:45 AM
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Edmonton wanted this, hence the trade for Teubert and L.A.'s 1st round draft pick.

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03-04-2011, 09:46 AM
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Thank God.

It still boggles my mind how people absolutley hate Andrei Kostitsyn but were about to wet their pants at the thought of aquiring Penner. The man is just as inconsistent and enigmatic as Andrei. He's also very lazy and is not overtly physical. He uses his size to protect the puck, but he's not a bruiser.

Fans saw 6'4, 230 pounds and nothing else went in their head. I would have been pissed at that move, especially that Penner has another 4.25 million cap hit for another year. The last thing we need is to commit that amount of money to a player like that for another year.

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03-04-2011, 09:49 AM
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Glad we didn't do it also...AK, as we are seeing can be effective with the right players...can he be consistant? Let's hope so!

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03-04-2011, 09:54 AM
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1- I think it might be Gagnon desperately trying to dispel the notion that he got pulled in by a fake Twitter account.

2- I would have done that in a heartbeat. I understand why PG didn't do it, but this would've been an excellent trade for Montreal.

Penner is an impact player, especially at even strength. He has an extra year on his contract, and is young enough that the Habs could have re-signed him for the next year. He is also exactly what the Habs need.

If the Habs' first-round pick yields a player as good as Penner, they will have been extremely lucky. In all likelihood, that player will not have an impact as great as Penner, and it certainly won't happen over the next one to four years, which is the window the Habs will be competing in (mind, I think they're shooting for consistent competitiveness).

Tinordi is the type of D-man that doesn't become dominant. They are useful NHL players, sure, and fine guys to pick as the 22nd overall (though adding a 2nd to go up and get him was foolish, IMHO; there were enough interesting prospects that drafting at 26th would've yielded a player of similar quality). Tinordi's ceiling is as a fourth-best D-man; nowhere near the impact of a top-line player like Penner.

It was a fantastic deal for the Kings and it would have been a fantastic deal for the Habs. I'm unconvinced that the deal was ever on the table, but if it was, I am disappointed Gauthier didn't pull the trigger. Mind you, I can see the argument for not doing it, but Penner filled the Habs' needs so nicely and with such a reasonable cap hit.

In other news, Tambellini is a terrible GM.

(About AK vs. Penner: I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I like AK, I think he should absolutely be re-signed. I like Penner for many of the same reasons, except Penner is better than AKost as a top-line player and doesn't need a Plekanec to be.)

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03-04-2011, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I'd have done it.

I never really liked the Tinordi pick. I think he'll be an okay player, but nothing outstanding. I watch the OHL a lot since I live inbetween two teams and I have the OHL Centre Ice package. I've been wrong before though.
It's not just about doing it because you're not super high on Tinordi. It's whether or not the trade itself is fair.
Like him or not, Tinordi is still a valuable asset, like McDonagh was. We made the mistake of trading one for Gomez. Doing the same thing for Penner would be idiotic.
On top of that, we have to give our 1st rounder too??? All this for another overpaid player that's not particularly better than AK?
Really, I don't care that you don't really like the Tinordi pick, that trade would have been a huge steal.

Also, unless a player has stardom written all over, it's tough to really know just how good or bad will be in the NHL. Already, you think he'll become an okay player, that's good enough for now.

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03-04-2011, 09:59 AM
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I'm happy it didn't go through if that's what they wanted. I don't see Penner as much of an upgrade over Andrei. I'm not AK biggest fan, but I find it funny how perception works. AK isn't far from Penner in production, work ethic ect except Penner is seen as a much better player for some reason.

If that Habs were offered a 1st round prospect and a 1st for AK and they didn't take it, I'd be pissed! As such, I'm happy we didn't pay that price for Penner.

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03-04-2011, 10:00 AM
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I see Tinordi becoming what we wanted O'Byrne to be

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03-04-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
1- I think it might be Gagnon desperately trying to dispel the notion that he got pulled in by a fake Twitter account.

2- I would have done that in a heartbeat. I understand why PG didn't do it, but this would've been an excellent trade for Montreal.

Penner is an impact player, especially at even strength. He has an extra year on his contract, and is young enough that the Habs could have re-signed him for the next year. He is also exactly what the Habs need.

If the Habs' first-round pick yields a player as good as Penner, they will have been extremely lucky. In all likelihood, that player will not have an impact as great as Penner, and it certainly won't happen over the next one to four years, which is the window the Habs will be competing in (mind, I think they're shooting for consistent competitiveness).

Tinordi is the type of D-man that doesn't become dominant. They are useful NHL players, sure, and fine guys to pick as the 22nd overall (though adding a 2nd to go up and get him was foolish, IMHO; there were enough interesting prospects that drafting at 26th would've yielded a player of similar quality). Tinordi's ceiling is as a fourth-best D-man; nowhere near the impact of a top-line player like Penner.

It was a fantastic deal for the Kings and it would have been a fantastic deal for the Habs. I'm unconvinced that the deal was ever on the table, but if it was, I am disappointed Gauthier didn't pull the trigger. Mind you, I can see the argument for not doing it, but Penner filled the Habs' needs so nicely and with such a reasonable cap hit.

In other news, Tambellini is a terrible GM.
Timmins obviously saw something in him to go and move down to draft him. You're bashing this pick similar to how everyone was laughing at McIlrath who is coming along very nicely in the WHL. A few years of constant progression for Tonordi and his ceiling can be as high as our own version of Pronger.

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03-04-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Glad we didn't do it also...AK, as we are seeing can be effective with the right players...can he be consistant? Let's hope so!
How about "no" for an answer?

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03-04-2011, 10:06 AM
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How the hell did Penner get so hyped up?? 2 first round picks?? That is what the Leafs gave up for Phil Kessel, and he is way more talented, 5 years younger, and scores 10 more goals per season.

If PG took that offer he would be fired. You can get Penner's production from a 4 million $ UFA.

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03-04-2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Timmins ob«viously saw something in him to go and move down to draft him.
Clearly. But I don't think trading a 2nd to get a guy like Tinordi makes sense. He is a perfect pick at 26 or 22, but he is not worth a 1st and a 2nd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
You're bashing this pick similar to how everyone was laughing at McIlrath who is coming along very nicely in the WHL.
I still expect that when all is said and done, the story on him will still be, "WTF were the Rangers thinking?". But who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
A few years of constant progression for Tonordi and his ceiling can be as high as our own version of Pronger.
He's going to need to start moving the puck and generating some offense before he gets to that level. To me he seems like he might be the good version of Komisarek (that is, the Hab version, not the Leaf version) -- not a bad player to have, but not an impact player either.

If he is going to be Chris Pronger, obviously it's a different matter, but he's shown no real signs of that. Brunet was also pointing out that he was fighting a lot, and that's not really a good sign.

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03-04-2011, 10:18 AM
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The more I think about it the more I think about how this non-trade was the best thing for our team and I'll give a few obvious reasons.

1) Despite people hating on Wiz, he's capable of putting up maybe 60 points. Defenseman who can do that don't grow on trees. We'd lose out on re-signing this guy for sure if we picked up Penner. Sure he isn't great defensively but he's leaps and bounds better than Bergeron. He's worth every penny if we sign him for a fair deal.

2) Penner himself. He isn't a good fit for us, while he'd add to our current top 9 and help to balance out our team somewhat, he isn't what we're looking for and would screw us out of signing a potentially better UFA this summer.

3) Tinordi + 1st - Not worth it considering the player we get back isn't perfect for us. I'd much rather wait it out and give up even more than that for a player much more fitting to our needs. That being said though no way we give up Tinordi + 1st for somebody who isn't a perfect fit, being that no other top 6 UFA's were really available, I like the non-move for this reason. We need to add prospects not take away prospects, and if we do it had better be for a guy who completes our top 6 and effectively gives us 3 scoring lines.

TSN rated Gauthier a C on deadline day, for the fact that he didn't trade for somebody whose only a partial fit, for the fact that he got Wiz a guy whose arguably able to put up 50-60 points as a defender on a team that's a shell of it's old defensive self, I respectfully disagree. The non-move for me makes perfect sense. Sure I would've loved to see a deal get done but if it isn't the right move then no move is the right move.

We just need to be patient and I'm glad our management isn't willing to mortgage the future to improve our chances in a bad year by 5%.

Plus let's face it, if we do re-sign Wiz and keep Markov, our team if healthy will be dynamite next season. For that alone I say PG actually did a really good job. He landed a D who can produce big time and is somewhat okay defensively.

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03-04-2011, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
1- I think it might be Gagnon desperately trying to dispel the notion that he got pulled in by a fake Twitter account.

2- I would have done that in a heartbeat. I understand why PG didn't do it, but this would've been an excellent trade for Montreal.

Penner is an impact player, especially at even strength. He has an extra year on his contract, and is young enough that the Habs could have re-signed him for the next year. He is also exactly what the Habs need.

If the Habs' first-round pick yields a player as good as Penner, they will have been extremely lucky. In all likelihood, that player will not have an impact as great as Penner, and it certainly won't happen over the next one to four years, which is the window the Habs will be competing in (mind, I think they're shooting for consistent competitiveness).

Tinordi is the type of D-man that doesn't become dominant. They are useful NHL players, sure, and fine guys to pick as the 22nd overall (though adding a 2nd to go up and get him was foolish, IMHO; there were enough interesting prospects that drafting at 26th would've yielded a player of similar quality). Tinordi's ceiling is as a fourth-best D-man; nowhere near the impact of a top-line player like Penner.

It was a fantastic deal for the Kings and it would have been a fantastic deal for the Habs. I'm unconvinced that the deal was ever on the table, but if it was, I am disappointed Gauthier didn't pull the trigger. Mind you, I can see the argument for not doing it, but Penner filled the Habs' needs so nicely and with such a reasonable cap hit.

In other news, Tambellini is a terrible GM.

(About AK vs. Penner: I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I like AK, I think he should absolutely be re-signed. I like Penner for many of the same reasons, except Penner is better than AKost as a top-line player and doesn't need a Plekanec to be.)
Boyes was acquired for a 2nd rounder. Sure, Penner is signed for an extra year, but if AK is overpaid than so is he. There's no way he's worth a high defensive prospect + 1st round pick. Maybe if it was Penner + 2nd, or simply Tinordi going back.
It was a clear case of deadline overpayment imo.

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03-04-2011, 10:22 AM
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Good non-move by Gauthier. Sometimes, not moving is better. Not a fan of the pick and moving up for that kind of player but I’m less a fan of Penner. And this upcoming 1st round pick is really interesting.

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03-04-2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
He's going to need to start moving the puck and generating some offense before he gets to that level. To me he seems like he might be the good version of Komisarek (that is, the Hab version, not the Leaf version) -- not a bad player to have, but not an impact player either.

If he is going to be Chris Pronger, obviously it's a different matter, but he's shown no real signs of that. Brunet was also pointing out that he was fighting a lot, and that's not really a good sign.
It's true, he has very little chances of becoming ''Pronger'',

But in the event that he plateaus into a big, physical, stay-at-home first pairing D whom we can rely on game after game, wouldn't that still be more useful than having Penner in itself? And I don't know about you but it would have been pretty terrible not to have a first and a second pick in this year's draft. We're not exactly perennial cup contenders and our cupboards are almost bare when it comes to defense.

In any case, If I werre to offer up Tinordi (no matter how u see his potential he is still a first round pick) + a first it wouldn't be for Penner.

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03-04-2011, 10:24 AM
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Honestly I just can't believe the rumors of PG trying to get rid of him at any cost, shouldn't he have been doing that with Gomez instead? I think Pierre got his names mixed up somehow. Anyway, not to de-rail the thread, but if Penner went for that much imagine what Andrei's value must be around the league.
That rumour I think was really misconstrued. McGuire said he was trying hard to move him because he had his sights on another forward (which looks like it was Penner now). But just because he was shopping AK hard doesn't mean he was trying to give him away for free. He could have been asking for a 1st to include it in the Penner deal.

Anyway, I'm glad it didn't happen. We're already thin on D prospects.

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03-04-2011, 10:25 AM
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He's going to need to start moving the puck and generating some offense before he gets to that level. To me he seems like he might be the good version of Komisarek (that is, the Hab version, not the Leaf version) -- not a bad player to have, but not an impact player either.

If he is going to be Chris Pronger, obviously it's a different matter, but he's shown no real signs of that. Brunet was also pointing out that he was fighting a lot, and that's not really a good sign.
I would not trade the good version of Komisarek for Penner. If Tinordi is the equivalent of Komisarek's career year with us, then I want him.

Penner would have added some nice help up front, certainly much better than having Halpern there. But when you see Boyes leave for a 2nd rounder, I have a hard time seeing how Penner is worth Tinordi+1st.

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03-04-2011, 10:28 AM
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Yea I wouldnt have done that. If Tinordi reaches his potential of what Timmins sees in him, he will be very important to this team. A 6'7 stay at home defenseman that is not afraid to drop the mits. He would be perfect with Subban. Hope he pans out.

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03-04-2011, 10:29 AM
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Tinordi and Zibanejad for Dustin ****ing Penner?

No thanks.

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03-04-2011, 10:29 AM
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Passing on Penner and going agressively after a Laich or Upshall this summer could turn into a great move.

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