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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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Old
03-04-2011, 10:38 AM
  #76
Radek27
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If that Anisimov + for Richards rumor was true we missed out there.

I don't blame the coach. Maybe you guys should start to have realistic expectations of our players because they aren't the most talented bunch up front, even more so with Gabby out. Hard working? Yes. But a future All-Star team it is not.

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03-04-2011, 10:52 AM
  #77
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Tortorella ain't the problem. They need more elite talent.

Secondary players are being too dependent on.

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03-04-2011, 10:53 AM
  #78
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I truly get the feeling that some of you guys don't understand the game at times. Is this team frustrating to watch these days, yes! Is it all about how the team is being coached, no. Most of us all agreed we didn't want to lose key future roster players for a rental at the dead line and to develope from with in the system. This comes with a price to pay guys, I am convinced that if we stay the course in 2 to 3 years this team will be a cup contender. The days of throwing around money to bring in high priced so called elite players are over, don't get me wrong, do we need to add maybe 1 or 2 key components over the summer, yes, but over all, breathe and be patient!!!

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03-04-2011, 10:58 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Tortarella is not a good coach in my opinion. He's overrated and won the Stanley Cup with a lot of talent around him.
That's usually how coaches win the Stanley Cup.

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Old
03-04-2011, 11:01 AM
  #80
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Ummm, did Coldshot really say that Torts won the cup because he had talented players?!?!? Wow!!!!

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03-04-2011, 11:46 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Lets look at what is truly important shall we:

Dubinsky: 43 points in 61 games
----He needs 1 point to surpass his career high in less games
Callahan: 33 points in 46 games
----Needs 7 points to tie his career high in far less games
Stepan: 36 points in 66 games as a rookie

Boyle: 20 goals and 32 points in 66 games
----far surpassed past career highs
Anisimov: 32 points in 66 games
----Has already surpassed his career highs in less games
Girardi: 25 points in 64 games
----Needs 3 points to tie career high
Prust: 23 points in 66 games
----Has far surpassed old career highs
Staal: 23 points in 63 games
----Needs 4 points to tie career highs
MZA: 16 points in 31 games as a rookie

Sauer: 11 points in 60 games as a rookie

McDonagh: 5 points in 25 games as a rookie

The important pieces of this team, the parts of the Rangers "core" are having good-to-great seasons and developing well under Torts. What other team who is in the playoff hunt has 4 rookies in their line-up? More importantly, what team in the playoff hunt has 2 rookies playing in their top-4 on defense?
Are you saying Tortorella is responsible for all of those marginal progresses when naturally young players get better? Most good goaches could get even better production out of them. What about Gilroy, what about regression of Del Zotto and Gaborik as well as Frolov?

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Old
03-04-2011, 11:47 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Are you saying Tortorella is responsible for all of those marginal progresses when naturally young players get better? Most good goaches could get even better production out of them. What about Gilroy, what about regression of Del Zotto and Gaborik as well as Frolov?
Callahan and Dubinsky's production both increased notably in the transition from Renney to Torts. Especially Dubinsky. This could be chalked up either to natural progression or change in style.

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Old
03-04-2011, 11:51 AM
  #83
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We need to stop with the injuries excuse. They're part of the game. Pronger missed time. Crosby and Malkin have missed time. Datsyuk has missed time. Green has missed time.
You really can't compare our injuries to teams with injuries that have good depth... The Rangers have no depth and that's Sather's fault... It's absolutely not an excuse, but a reality...How many 1st line forwards do we have when Gaborik is out of the lineup? How many first line Centers do we have? How many true 2nd line forwards do we have? We have 2 rookies comprising our 2nd defensive pairing.... How much of this can be said about the other teams in question? When Datsyuk goes out of the line-up, do they still not have Zetterberg and other first line players like Franzen to pick up the slack? When Pronger goes out, does Philly not have players like Timmonen, Coburn, Mezsaros to help fill in and alleviate the void? Who fills in for Gabby when he's out of the line-up? What about when Staal went out, we had to put a rookie on our first pairing when he went out...

Independent of the injuries, our team is slumping, but the injuries and lack of depth to begin with, have had a significant impact on our season, that much is evident...


Last edited by wolfgaze: 03-04-2011 at 11:59 AM.
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Old
03-04-2011, 11:54 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
You really can't compare our injuries to teams with injuries that have good depth... The Rangers have no depth and that's Sather's fault... It's absolutely not an excuse, but a reality...How many 1st line forwards do we have when Gaborik is out of the lineup? How many first line Centers do we have? How many true 2nd line forwards do we have? We have 2 rookies comprising our 2nd defensive pairing.... How much of this can be said about Detroit, Pittsburgh, Washington?

Independent of the injuries, our team is slumping, but the injuries and lack of depth to begin with, have had a significant impact on our season, that much is evident...
That's exactly my point. The injuries aren't the problem. The lack of depth is.

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03-04-2011, 12:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's exactly my point. The injuries aren't the problem. The lack of depth is.
Then we would agree that it's tough to blame our current circumstances on the head coach... He's responsible to a degree but he didn't have much to work with and without a healthy team, it's hard to gauge exactly how he's performing.... I agree with what of the other mods said earlier in the thread, we should re-evaluate Tortorella around the time of the all-star break next season and see where the team stands...

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03-04-2011, 12:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Callahan and Dubinsky's production both increased notably in the transition from Renney to Torts. Especially Dubinsky. This could be chalked up either to natural progression or change in style.
He was moved from Center to Wing. I think that has had more to do with it than anything else.

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03-04-2011, 12:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
We saw the other day Ruff has been coach of the Sabres for 13 years.

Now I, for one, couldn't believe we fired Renney without even missing a playoff series. Most of the justifications I had heard for it was that he was "holding the team back" and that we would explode without him.

Now, Tortorella has done pretty well with what he has here. But the injuries, coupled with some dissapointments have put us where we are right now. I think Torts has a job next season regardless of outcome.
Agree here. Add to the fact that if Sather fires yet another coach, he'll put more focus on himself. What is he going to do? Step behind the bench again for the 3rd time in his tenure here? Put Sullivan in charge? Schoenfeld?

That would make it 7 coaches in 11 years. Then another next season possibly...


Low
Sather
Trottier
Sather
Renney
Torts
?

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:10 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Then we would agree that it's tough to blame our current circumstances on the head coach... He's responsible to a degree but he didn't have much to work with and without a healthy team, it's hard to gauge exactly how he's performing.... I agree with what of the other mods said earlier in the thread, we should re-evaluate Tortorella around the time of the all-star break next season and see where the team stands...
I'm fine with re-evaluating at the All Star Break next season. That said, it depends a lot on what happens this offseason.

One thing I've wonder about is Torts was brought in to take the Rangers to the next level — something Sather presumably felt that Renney was unable to do. I don't know if the idea was the bring Torts in and rebuild. And maybe, he's not the best choice to coach a rebuild.

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm fine with re-evaluating at the All Star Break next season. That said, it depends a lot on what happens this offseason.

One thing I've wonder about is Torts was brought in to take the Rangers to the next level something Sather presumably felt that Renney was unable to do. I don't know if the idea was the bring Torts in and rebuild. And maybe, he's not the best choice to coach a rebuild.
Next level? This guy can't even take them back to same level they were 4 years ago.

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03-04-2011, 12:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Next level? This guy can't even take them back to same level they were 4 years ago.
Look at the roster from 4 years ago and tell me the differences compared to today...

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:29 PM
  #91
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For all of you guys wanting to FIRE TORTS, how exactly is that, as you guys love to say, "Staying the Course" ?

These players are building something with Torts, a system that fits the players we have here, and what do you want to do? Start over again with a new coach?

Renney didn't deserve to be fired but the team needed a new identity post Jagr.

The problems with this team are Lack of finish, inexperienced D, and since Gaborik is MIA this year, we lack that true top player.

Watching this team every night shows the last problem this team has is coaching.

Torts' job is to put the team in the best position to succeed. He does so. We got 40 shots on goal last night, constant pressure. Its not Torts' fault that no one outside of Gaboirk is capable of putting up 50 ****ing points.

Can't wait to pay Dubinsky 4.5 mill to rack up 45 points.

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:30 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Callahan and Dubinsky's production both increased notably in the transition from Renney to Torts. Especially Dubinsky. This could be chalked up either to natural progression or change in style.
Notably? It was a small increase and it was due to them maturing and having more icetime because Ice Hogs like Jagr were gone

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03-04-2011, 12:38 PM
  #93
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What a disaster 2nd half.

What a mishandling of personnel and misjudge of talent.

How is it everybody but Tortorella sees that Gilroy sucks?

Where is the "safe is death"?

Where are the winning streaks?
so now you are so frustrated that Eminger is not playing that you want Tort's head? They don't have the horses. They played over their talent level for a while but things have evened out and they are where they should be; fighting for a playoff spot. If they don't make it, it won't be the coaching. He has made mistakes, so does every coach in the league. However, this team works like no other team we've had in a long time and that is due to accountability and coaching.

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03-04-2011, 12:40 PM
  #94
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He has to go and here is my reasoning.

People keep posting that this is a weak team but I don't understand where they get this information from. Staal, Girardi, Sauer, McDonough, McCabe and Eminger are a good group of defencemen. I understand they are young but they are playing like veterans. Sauer has been knocking at the door for a long time and finally got the opportunity to play in the nhl. McDonough has been a top propsect for a long time and there was a reason he went 12th overall in the 2007 draft (thank you Sather). Staal and Girardi are one of the best shut down defence in the nhl. McCabe is a decent powerplay quarterback.

Dubinsky and Wolski are definitley two of the better left wingers in the nhl. I don't know how many teams in the nhl have two better top 6 left wingers besides new jersey. Are top 6 right wingers are marian gaborik and ryan callahan, which again is a pretty damn good top 6 group of right wingers. Our bottom 6 players consist of Chris Drury, Brian Boyle, Sean Avery, Brandon Prust, Mats Zuccarello. How many teams have a better bottom 6 in the nhl, my guess is none.

We have one problem and thats a #1 centre. We should not miss the playoffs because of this one problem. We have one of the best goaltenders in the nhl... good depth at forwards and a strong group of defense. If we don't make the playoffs Tortorella has to go.

Please stop giving Tortorella credit for the progress Callahan and Dubinsky have made. Players get better with experience proven fact.

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03-04-2011, 12:46 PM
  #95
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The Rangers are really having bad luck. They are not burying scoring chances. Last nite they out chanced the Wild by double. However they lost.

They outshot the Wild 41-19 and they lost. On a shorty, Dubinsky was alone against the Goalie and he tried to pass to Cally instead of shooting.

Hopefully, they score a few tonite and win. Maybe then they can turn this around

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03-04-2011, 12:47 PM
  #96
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Coaching hasn't been a problem for the Rangers since the lockout.
Fairly true.

But someone has to be held accountable. The easiest person to blame is the coach. We all know Sather won't take accountability or lose his position.

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03-04-2011, 12:50 PM
  #97
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Dubinsky and Wolski are definitley two of the better left wingers in the nhl.
No they're certainly not... Dubi's career high is 44 points.. How does that make him one of the better left wingers in the entire league? Wolski is inconsistent... He has 13 points in 23 games, that would put him on pace for just 46 points over an 82 game season... How does taht make either of these guys some of the better left wings in the league???

Quote:
We have one problem and thats a #1 centre. We should not miss the playoffs because of this one problem. We have one of the best goaltenders in the nhl... good depth at forwards and a strong group of defense. If we don't make the playoffs Tortorella has to go.
We have ONE first line forward, and he's often injured and has been slumping the entire year... How is that not a problem? We don't have a true 2nd line center yet either... Stepan is a wet behind the ears rookie who's still learning the pro game... He's inconsistent, and that's to be expected...

-How many other teams in the league have the youngest defense? None...
-How many other teams in the league vying for a playoff spot only have one first line forward?
-How many other teams in the league have no first line center or experienced 2nd line center?
-How many other teams in the league with a similar roster as the Rangers have lost 280+ man games due to injury and are still holding a playoff spot?

Your analysis of our roster depth is way off... This team is extremely young and inexperienced... You cannot discount what experience does for a roster...

-Our 2nd pairing on defense is comprised of two rookies
-Our best 2 Centers have a combined 2 years NHL experience

Injuries, no depth, little experience, lots of first year players.... Good luck pinning this on our head coach.... Talk to the man upstairs...


Last edited by wolfgaze: 03-04-2011 at 12:59 PM.
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Old
03-04-2011, 12:50 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Tortarella is not a good coach in my opinion. He's overrated and won the Stanley Cup with a lot of talent around him.

Terrible motivator, coaching skills are slightly above average at best, and his whole coaching philosophy just sucks.
So he doesn't win stanley cups when the talent isn't as good? Oh wow go figure.

But seriously he's fine. He gets a lot out of the team, probably as much as he can. Players are ultimately responsible for their own fortunes. These "systems" coaches employ are nothing more than plans which must be executed, and if not, ultimately lead to failure. Any system can function given proper personnel.

Devils are a prime example or Detroit, they employ a system and sign/develop personnel to fit within it. The Rangers are doing the same around Tortorella. Give it time and the system will become the NY Rangers.

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03-04-2011, 12:53 PM
  #99
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Someone mentioned it in another thread, this team has been brutal since trading Rozsival. He logged big minutes taking some of the pressure off our young defensemen.
His minutes have been taken by Ryan McDonagh who is playing at a much higher level than Rozi was. The Rangers are not getting the results because the effort gap that was in their favor every night has shrunk to almost nothing. Teams are working harder in their own zones forcing the Rangers to exhibit more talent to score and they don't have that talent; not yet but I am optimistic it is on the way (Richards and more talented kids).

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03-04-2011, 12:56 PM
  #100
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Thats a fair assessment, and no one was expecting Tortorella to win the Stanley Cup this year, but making the Playoff in Hockey is NOT a terribly hard thing to do. More than Half the freaking league makes the playoffs. You essentially need to be average to get in, barely even good.
If people think this team is a Brad Richards away from winning the Cup, but isn't even a playoff team without him, then you must be crazy..
problem with this thinking is the point that people saying this are also saying that not only will BR join but experience will improve the whole team as well. The year after that it will be much improved again and by that time guys like Grachev, kreider, hagelin, Werek, Thomas have an opportunity to join the club and add to it as well. And unlike Dubs, AA, Cally, Step, Staal, hank who had to set the table as Jagr and the rest left those 2-5 will just walk up toa table that is already set. So all the rooks and soph's learning right now this year will be growing into and maxing out their games while guys like Dubs, Cally, Staal, will be at their peak. Hank, gabs and BR if we sign him will hopefully still contribute. Huge huge difference and it's not that hard to understand why people are excited.

It is also easy to see why people are hesitant especially since the guys failed to carry the scoring load this year but keep in mind rook's and soph's are not expected to. The Dubs and Cally's aren't 1st liners either. The one guy expected to score failed miserably hence why our season is spiraling out of control. Next year will be very interesting and it will be dissapointing if no PO's are there. All the soph's and 3rd year guys along with Dubs, Cally, Staal, hank should be enough to make it next year

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