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Francois Gagnon: Tinordi and 1st round round draft pick for Penner

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:54 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I wouldn't want to build around Tinordi he is not a top pairing D London doesn't often use him on the PP or PK and he is not a strong skater and often out of position. I watched him last week Thurs against Saginaw and he was horrible.
nobody said we want to build around Tinordi. He is going to fill a role we haven't had since Komisarek first got hurt, and that is somebody who can punish the other team's BEST players along the boards and clear the front of the net. Gill isn't that physical along the boards and is goo enough at clearing the front of the net, but he won't be around forever, and can't execute a breakout at all (something that Tinordi is pretty good at despite not having much offensive instincts).

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03-04-2011, 12:57 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
If Penner could have got them a 1st and Tinordi, i hope AK goes a decent PO run and land us a Tinordi and a 1st in the off-season.
If he tears it up from now on, you can bet on him being signed and not going anywhere especially with him being a RFA

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03-04-2011, 12:59 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
McDonough playing 20+ minutes is largely why the Rangers are in a downward spiral out of the playoffs.
Not true at all, actually. Have you seen the Rangers play at all this year? McDonagh's been a bright spot on that D.

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03-04-2011, 12:59 PM
  #79
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I would have done it without a second thought. It's a weak draft and Tinordi is likely a #3 at best since he's American.

Penner is exactly what we need and he's still young. Plus the turnaround value is higher than what we'd be dishing.

I would much prefer to dump AK and take Penner. Come playoff time we'll see who was right when AK is afraid to go in the corner. How soon we all forget how effective Byfuglien was against Pronger... sheesh.

Penner-Gomez-Cammalleri
Pacioretty-Pleks-Gionta
Moen-Eller-AK (dump after playoffs)
Pouliot-DD-White

No balance on this team right now at all. That would have given us four balanced scoring lines that can play two-way hockey.

But if anyone knows about Penner, it's PG. He has his insiders there still I guess. And Moen probably weighed in.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 03-04-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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03-04-2011, 01:01 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
because you're the expert on tinordi right? having watched him play how many games, 2??
Just the fact that he called Tinordi slow, I would guess zero.

One of his assets is how fluid he skates for a big guy. Don't bother with him.

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03-04-2011, 01:02 PM
  #81
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because you're the expert on tinordi right? having watched him play how many games, 2??
I've watched a few games and read a ton on him. He has zero offence to speak of. He's not a center piece for this team in the future, he's a young Hal Gill and that's about it, if he ever gets to Hals level he'll be doing good.

What we do know is Dustin Penner is already a proven 25-30g scorer year end and year out. Why would Edmonton give their 240lb 30g scorer away for less?

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03-04-2011, 01:03 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Just the fact that he called Tinordi slow, I would guess zero.

One of his assets is how fluid he skates for a big guy.
cuz penner is a speedster too and he shows up every game

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03-04-2011, 01:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
so... your opinion of him is based off one game. good to know.
No it is based off many games I was using that one as an example in a long line of terrible plays and moves.

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03-04-2011, 01:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
No it is based off many games I was using that one as an example in a long line of terrible plays and moves.
So what are you saying then, that he does that kind of stuff every game? Oh dear god, who have we drafted? Why would you single out a signle of his performances if it's hardly a trend. And I'm pretty sure you're not a talent scout so I would take anyone's opinoin here with a huge grain of salt. What we can base our opinion off of is the scouting report from his draft card, and he has all the tools be a TOP PAIRING shutdown monster. Granted, I never said I followed London but give the kid a break he isn't even in the AHL, yet I see some posters giving up on him like it was written in stone that he will never become more than a #4 guy. That's pathetic if you ask me.

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03-04-2011, 01:06 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Thank God.

It still boggles my mind how people absolutley hate Andrei Kostitsyn but were about to wet their pants at the thought of aquiring Penner. The man is just as inconsistent and enigmatic as Andrei. He's also very lazy and is not overtly physical. He uses his size to protect the puck, but he's not a bruiser.

Fans saw 6'4, 230 pounds and nothing else went in their head. I would have been pissed at that move, especially that Penner has another 4.25 million cap hit for another year. The last thing we need is to commit that amount of money to a player like that for another year.
Basically agree...I would have offered Kostitsyn and Tinordi for Penner though. In that I think neither will be nothing major and Penner fills a role here. But the first round pick too much to give up.

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03-04-2011, 01:06 PM
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Some of the things I've read in this thread are just laughable.

1) Penner is just what we need, no he isn't.
2) People assuming they know a prospect will or won't be this or that.
3) People assuming other people are stupid just because they're in the minority, and just assuming because they are that the majority is stupid and wrong.

I'm not saying the majority is always right far from it. In fact I'm not saying either is right or wrong in any case. But to just make the claim that because you're one of the few agreeing that means you must be right because the majority is stupid, that's laughable.

Just because you're in the minority doesn't automatically make you right and the way people talk about Penner you'd think they never watched him play a single game. He's a good player but not worth what was given up, and he's definitely not a perfect fit for us nor exactly what we need.

The people saying that just hockeydb the dude look at his size and assume. I think he'd be alright here but a perfect fit? Far from it, more a waste of assets and cap space than anything. I'd have taken him maybe for less but even then having him next year, especially if he doesn't fit in with Jacques system, it would be a nightmare.

I'd rather they go after a far superior player aggressively. One who is a far better fit for our team and system.

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03-04-2011, 01:08 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I've watched a few games and read a ton on him. He has zero offence to speak of. He's not a center piece for this team in the future, he's a young Hal Gill and that's about it, if he ever gets to Hals level he'll be doing good. What we do know is Dustin Penner is already a proven 25-30g scorer year end and year out. Why would Edmonton give their 240lb 30g scorer away for less?
He wasnt drafted to provide offense. b) He is the big, hard hitting, shutdown, stay at home defensemen that we will be lacking in 2-3 years. and c) Penner is over rated. I bet you get a hard-on everytime you look at his stats on nhl. com, 6 foot whatever, 240 lbs, 25-30g and tell yourself, ''OMG we need this guy, i would trade anything for him, i dont care, even if i over pay for him''. Penner is just as steaky, lazy and slow as people say AK is. He is the American AK. And you would trade Tinordi, a 1st and a 3rd for him? ok?.......


Last edited by Habs 4 Life: 03-04-2011 at 01:15 PM.
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03-04-2011, 01:10 PM
  #88
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All I'm going to say is that if we had Penner, Akost, Gionta, Cammy, Patches, and Pouliot, we'd be as set on wing as we can realistically hope. Right now we're still lacking a 25 goal-50+ point presence and those aren't all that easy to get.

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03-04-2011, 01:11 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I've watched a few games and read a ton on him. He has zero offence to speak of. He's not a center piece for this team in the future, he's a young Hal Gill and that's about it, if he ever gets to Hals level he'll be doing good.

What we do know is Dustin Penner is already a proven 25-30g scorer year end and year out. Why would Edmonton give their 240lb 30g scorer away for less?
Um, because they did? Do you really think Teubert + LA's 1st is that much of a better offer better than Tinordi + our first?

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03-04-2011, 01:13 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
nobody said we want to build around Tinordi. He is going to fill a role we haven't had since Komisarek first got hurt, and that is somebody who can punish the other team's BEST players along the boards and clear the front of the net. Gill isn't that physical along the boards and is goo enough at clearing the front of the net, but he won't be around forever, and can't execute a breakout at all (something that Tinordi is pretty good at despite not having much offensive instincts).
That is part of the problem he doesn't punish anyone in JR how will he do so in teh big game. He is not sound positionaly and is actually pretty weak on the puck he gets pushed off the puck easily. Which is part of the reason I feel he didn't make the US jr team considering he was the captain of their team in the USdevelopment program.

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03-04-2011, 01:17 PM
  #91
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Well I do mean Mathias and not Benoit.

I don't expect Benoit Brunet to make the point that a guy fights too much very often.
makes a lot more sense

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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
So what are you saying then, that he does that kind of stuff every game? Oh dear god, who have we drafted? Why would you single out a signle of his performances if it's hardly a trend. And I'm pretty sure you're not a talent scout so I would take anyone's opinoin here with a huge grain of salt. What we can base our opinion off of is the scouting report from his draft card, and he has all the tools be a TOP PAIRING shutdown monster. Granted, I never said I followed London but give the kid a break he isn't even in the AHL, yet I see some posters giving up on him like it was written in stone that he will never become more than a #4 guy. That's pathetic if you ask me.
I know right lol, he hasn't even been drafted a full year yet... I think a lot of people knew when he was drafted that he would be a project due to his size.. It takes a while for guys his size to come a long but the payoff can be great


Last edited by Habs 4 Life: 03-04-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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03-04-2011, 01:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Um, because they did? Do you really think Teubert + LA's 1st is that much of a better offer better than Tinordi + our first?
LA added a conditional 2nd rd pick, which will likely be a 3rd. Maybe the Oilers, think more highly of Teubert than Tinordi, it also depends on what the Oilers wanted.

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03-04-2011, 01:32 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
If Penner could have got them a 1st and Tinordi, i hope AK goes a decent PO run and land us a Tinordi and a 1st in the off-season.
I like AK and think the Habs should re-sign him, but Penner is a significantly better player.

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03-04-2011, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Penner is a skill-less slow piece of meat on skates. Tinordi alone for Penner would infuriate me.

I still can't believe ppl want that guy.
Penner is a good Top 6 winger who has good size. He would be a welcoming addition to an extremely small Top 6 offence.

But it's true that Penner is not the player people make him out to be. He's highly overrated and part of this is due to size which from all skills is by far the most overrated (espacially that it has nothing to do with skills to beginning with).

I wouldn't mind overpaying for a good power forward, but Penner isn't the type I would... Backes, Clowe, Ryan, Brown, Stewart... these are the type of players I wouldn't mind overpaying to get.

With that said... I will surprise a lot of people by saying that for me Tinordi is the 5th most untouchable player in the organization (behind Price, Subban, Pleks and MaxPac). Yes, more important than Leblanc, Eller, DD, Kristo and cie. Is he better than them... not really... so why ?

Because we have no one else like him in the system. Maybe Emelin, but so far, he's still in the KHL and we don't know if he'll ever come over and produce well. Other than that, we don't have a real potential Top 4 physical defensive d-man. He's going to fill out and become a physical force like few exist. He already has a mean streak, something we didn't see in Komisarek and he's learning how to fight.

He'll be a true leader and a guy who should be able to log 20-22min and play well on the PK. It's true that his OHL season hasn't been too great, but the last reports coming in were that he adjusted well in the 2nd half and became a great shutdown d-man. He's still a project, but so far, I wouldn't trade him unless we get a young physical defensive defenceman or that Emelin comes over and becomes the bomb.

... so I'm more than glad that PG didn't trade him for Penner... even if I would have like Penner in a habs uniform.

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03-04-2011, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
Basically agree...I would have offered Kostitsyn and Tinordi for Penner though. In that I think neither will be nothing major and Penner fills a role here. But the first round pick too much to give up.
See, this is what I don't get. AK has more value than our current 1st. He's a 20 g scorer in the league already.

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03-04-2011, 01:44 PM
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Um, because they did? Do you really think Teubert + LA's 1st is that much of a better offer better than Tinordi + our first?
No it's about the same, not to mention there's another pick you forgot about.

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03-04-2011, 01:44 PM
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I like AK and think the Habs should re-sign him, but Penner is a significantly better player.
No he's not. Maybe if you said to me, Penner is a significantly better player then that would be fine. But even then I have no idea what you base that on.

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03-04-2011, 01:48 PM
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Really don't get the furor over Penner. I'd give up that package for a player like Franzen but Penner? The guy is wildly inconsistent. Big **** is on par in career stats and provides a better overall package. Better to spend Penner-type money on the Wiz, etc.

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03-04-2011, 01:49 PM
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The fact that Boston completely fleeced St.-Louis in the Boyes deal doesn't really affect the judgement of the Penner deal -- and Penner is a much better player than Boyes.
Boyes got traded to Buffalo, not Boston. Penner a much better player than Boyes?..How so? Because he's bigger? Fail to see how this makes him a much better player, if at all. Is it because he averages more points? Nope, Boyes averages 10more pts per season than him. Is it because Penner is faster?..Nope. Better passer and stickhandler?..Nope. Is it because Penner is better at ES?..Not really, they're just about the same. Ya, Penner might have a better shot percentage, and hit a little bit more given his size (still disappointing that he has less hits than Gionta), but again, I fail how this makes him a much better player than Boyes.

Ya, Buffalo certainly underpaid for Boyes. Giving up a first round prospect + 1st round pick for Penner though is overpayment.
Versteeg is having a similar season to Penner, he cost the Flyers a 1st (29th or 30th) + 3rd. Still, many felt it was a bit of a steep price. He's signed for another year at a more reasonable price than Penner (3.08 vs 4.25).

As I said, giving up Tinordi+1st for Penner is too expensive for my taste. Penner is a good player, he fills a void, but he's not worth that much. We overpaid for players more often than not via the trade market, I'm glad we didn't do it again this time.
Kaberle got the Leafs a similar value return and he's a lot more valuable than Penner imo.
If they were sending us their 2nd round pick, then yea, I probably would have thought a lot more about it. If it's Tinordi or our first for Penner straight up, then perhaps. But not if it's both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Strongly disagree. Penner is a much better player than the pick or Tinordi will ever be, Tinordi will likely be a 4th-6th dman. Easily replaceable. I would of pulled the trigger.
How exactly do you know if Penner is a better player than the pick??
Do you know who that pick is?..Do you know if we'll even have that pick for sure by the selection time?..How exactly do you know any of this?? Crystal Ball?

With Markov-PK-Gorges, Hammer (or maybe Gorges) is our #4 Dman. If Tinordi is a #4 Dman then I'm all happy.
Tinordi, outside Emelin maybe, is our best defensive prospect. Weber and PK are in the NHL. I don't have big hopes for Carle. Emelin is an enigma. Nash and Bennett could become interesting players but they're not rated any higher than Tinordi.

Even if you think he is easily replaceable, he's still a high value prospect. This + 1st is an overpayment for an inconsistent player that's bigger than AK but hits less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I've watched a few games and read a ton on him. He has zero offence to speak of. He's not a center piece for this team in the future, he's a young Hal Gill and that's about it, if he ever gets to Hals level he'll be doing good.

What we do know is Dustin Penner is already a proven 25-30g scorer year end and year out. Why would Edmonton give their 240lb 30g scorer away for less?
Yea, he doesn't have any offense. Does that surprise you? Because he was drafted for his defensive and physical abilities, not the offense. Comparing him to Hal Gill really?..I have a hard time believing you've watched him play or read up much on him if that's the best comparison you can come up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Talking about skill-less and slow for penner then in the very next sentence bring up Tinordi, who is even less skilled and much slower. Well done.

Why would Edmonton give us a 25-30g scorer for less?
Why would St-Louis give Buffalo a 40G scorer for just a 2nd rounder?

Tinordi+1st is an overpayment for Penner.

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03-04-2011, 01:50 PM
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He wasnt drafted to provide offense. b) He is the big, hard hitting, shutdown, stay at home defensemen that we will be lacking in 2-3 years. and c) Penner is over rated. I bet you get a hard-on everytime you look at his stats on nhl. com, 6 foot whatever, 240 lbs, 25-30g and tell yourself, ''OMG we need this guy, i would trade anything for him, i dont care, even if i over pay for him''. Penner is just as steaky, lazy and slow as people say AK is. He is the American AK. And you would trade Tinordi, a 1st and a 3rd for him? ok?.......
If he's anything like AK, which he isn't. I would take him in a heart beat. I didn't say I would trade anything for him, but Tinordi and our 1st I would have in a heart beat.

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