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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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Old
03-04-2011, 11:05 PM
  #151
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So people are fully aware that Sather didn't get another defense man because of Tortorella's love for Gilroy! Dam, I wish I can get the inside scoop.

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03-04-2011, 11:11 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If we miss the playoffs Tortorella absolutely has to go. Missing the playoffs is absolutely humiliating and makes us no better than the Oilers. Is Torts working with a Stanley Cup team here? No he's not, but this is a playoff team.
How is it humiliating? We have a young team that is still growing. What did you expect for this year? Going into the season many here were skeptical and many projected us to finish 7-10 in the conference. Seems like they were pretty spot on. So why should we be down on torts? We saw this coming. Its called growing pains. This team is on the right path. Torts got them on that path. Its not his fault he doesnt have a number one center that can distribute the puck to his best player.

Hate threads like these.

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Old
03-04-2011, 11:17 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
First
I am no big Torts fan. At all.
But I do not feel firing him at this point would serve any given purpose.
He has his pros & cons. More cons than pros imo, but that is beyond the point. The constant lines juggling, the abhorrent PP, the icetime appropriations, not getting the most out of certain players, the constantly being tactically outcoached and the double morale (Washington) are issues that irritate.The main flaw is that when the team is totally intact, which it basically never has been, it plays a hockey that does not produce desired results. When everyone was injured & half of Hartford/Conneticut was up in NYC - the team was getting points. With or without their only elite scorer. Because they were underdogs not expected to produce results. And they battled their way to victory. The beginning of the year - they bullied their way over opponents. It worked for a while. And Torts seemed like the right guy to lead these Underdogs & kids to victory.
When most of the "key" injured players returned, bigger responsibility and icetime was given back to them. And this somehow disrupted the chemistry and instead of winning we started losing one-goal games heartbreakers that lead to many many frustrated NYR fans posting some crazy stuff on these boards. It seems like this shift was not at all tactically followed up (no - trading Roszival was not the reason for us losing or Phoenix winning...) and our PP has not been bettered. That is not entirely the coaches responsibility, but there is something bigger in the whole concept that is missing.
First an overbearing bully hockey, then injuries & underdog overacheiving, now MEH, nothing really. What signifies the team now? Dump and chase, lots of perimeter shots and usually dominating SOG statistics, some weak goals against (I am not blaming Hank at all as I think he is in a fix here - he could however play the angles better and come outta the net better - as some posters have emphasized) by the leagues highest paid keeper, more injuries and no sense of direction or leadership. This is imo partially a youth thing, but if nobody on the ice is stepping up & taking charge saying "letīs do this - this skid ENDS NOW!", the coach damn well better do it. I think Drury should have been stripped of his captaincy long ago and someone else given the chance to provide leadership. That definitely falls on Torts. This team needs identity. Now!
If we miss the PO:s, get rid of Drury, retain RFAs, sign Richards and still are not producing come midterm next year, pink slip is in order for Torts. Renney got fired producing far better results. And I was advocating firing him. But if all the tools are there - which they really are not now but might be next year - and the coach still cannot produce results - Adios Senor....
Slather should have been gone long ago - but that is an entirely different story...
great summary, almost exactly what I feel, but was too lazy to express.

also what bothers me about Gaborik is that when needed the most he has pretty much disappeared for 2 straight seasons. Last season he played injured for team Slovakia, but as soon as he returned to NHL and we were trying to make our playoff push, he decided he was too hurt to play. Why the double standard? I really lost a lot for him then. Either he should not have played hurt for Slovakia or should have played a few games hurt for us. This season he was not even close to what he was last season, slower, less skilled, less confident, constant injuries. I hope he is not exagerrating his concussion when we need his scoring the most.

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03-04-2011, 11:21 PM
  #154
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great summary, almost exactly what I feel, but was too lazy to express.

also what bothers me about Gaborik is that when needed the most he has pretty much disappeared for 2 straight seasons. Last season he played injured for team Slovakia, but as soon as he returned to NHL and we were trying to make our playoff push, he decided he was too hurt to play. Why the double standard? I really lost a lot for him then. Either he should not have played hurt for Slovakia or should have played a few games hurt for us. This season he was not even close to what he was last season, slower, less skilled, less confident, constant injuries. I hope he is not exagerrating his concussion when we need his scoring the most.
Hopefully when he comes back he'll be total symptom-free: It's one thing to come back early from a shoulder injury, but concussions can REALLY get worse if he still plays with symptoms.

It's better to be cautious about an injury, especially a concussion and especially in Gaborik's case, so he doesn't re-injure himself.

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03-04-2011, 11:24 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Care to dive a little further into this declaration?

Which veteran's lack of success are you pinning on Torts?
It's the coaches fault that Gaborik is injury prone. Seriously I'd love to know which team in the league has had more injuries to their starting players this season (and the accumulated games that were missed)? We're still playing each game without a single proven goal scorer. Oh wait, Prospal!

All of this talk about how great Lemaire is. Fine, he's one of the best coaches in the league but after all, he also has one of the best pure goal scorers in the league. When Lemaire coached for Minnesota, I can almost guarantee (I don't have a source) that he had a better record with gabby in the lineup.

I'm also willing to wager that Tortorella's record would look better with either Kovalchuk or A HEALTHY Gaborik in the lineup. The coach can't score for these guys and with a lineup like this, you're not going to get 4 goals a game on a consistent basis. IDC if you're Scotty Bowman or Al Arbour. Maybe if you're Jacques Lemaire!

And I can only imagine how Lundqvist feels. Probably not too good if he's in a mindset where he has to stop every puck.
It's like taking the hill for the Mets knowing they're not going too score any runs. Maybe one or two! And the key word there is "maybe."


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03-04-2011, 11:26 PM
  #156
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I just want to go on record saying that I think that Torts has done a great job this year. I disagree with the line combos sometimes, and it's frustrating to see the team completely baffled by the trap, but the level of effort that we see each and every night is indicative of a good coaching job, and this team has performed at or above its potential for the vast majority of the season.

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03-04-2011, 11:27 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
great summary, almost exactly what I feel, but was too lazy to express.

also what bothers me about Gaborik is that when needed the most he has pretty much disappeared for 2 straight seasons. Last season he played injured for team Slovakia, but as soon as he returned to NHL and we were trying to make our playoff push, he decided he was too hurt to play. Why the double standard? I really lost a lot for him then. Either he should not have played hurt for Slovakia or should have played a few games hurt for us. This season he was not even close to what he was last season, slower, less skilled, less confident, constant injuries. I hope he is not exagerrating his concussion when we need his scoring the most.
without Gaborik last yr this team does'nt even come close to a playoff spot............how easily people forget

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Old
03-04-2011, 11:27 PM
  #158
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Dubinsky scored 44 points in 69 games as a 24 year old and improves every season. Wolski recorded 65 points last year if hes not a top 6 left winger i don't know what is. How many teams in the nhl have two left wingers that can pot over 50 points?

Rookies have nothing to do with it... Our rookies are our best players. Matt Duchene has 1 year of nhl experience what's your point. What is this experience you speak of? Chris Drury? ....I like our group of defense, especially with the addition of McCabe... A ranking came out on hockeybuzz a couple weeks ago before the addition of McCabe. They asked GM's around the NHL who has the best defense and got them to rank them. Rangers were ranked 13th. With the addition of McCabe I believe they are a top 10.

With a top 10 defense and a top goaltender and decent forward depth, we should make the playoffs.

Coaches get the most out of their players. Is tortorella getting the most out of gaborik, avery, drury? I don't think so. I think these guys could excell under a new regime. The players that are excelling are those that are fighting for contracts and have to put up with tortorella's bull ****.

Lastly, I don't like how Tortorella iterates the same thing every interview. He states that the Rangers are not a talented team and they have to grind their way through each game. The players hate playing for coaches that downgrade their accomplishments and make the coach a glory hound. He annoys me.
Yes even a very talented team is limited to how talented and creative the coach is.

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03-04-2011, 11:38 PM
  #159
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It's impossible for a team at any level to even sniff winning a championship with Torts behind the bench. Never has happened, nor ever will!!

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03-04-2011, 11:42 PM
  #160
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So people are fully aware that Sather didn't get another defense man because of Tortorella's love for Gilroy! Dam, I wish I can get the inside scoop.
Are you saying Tortorella advocated trading Gilroy by playing him instead of Eminger?

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03-04-2011, 11:46 PM
  #161
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I just want to go on record saying that I think that Torts has done a great job this year. I disagree with the line combos sometimes, and it's frustrating to see the team completely baffled by the trap, but the level of effort that we see each and every night is indicative of a good coaching job, and this team has performed at or above its potential for the vast majority of the season.
One positive about how he manages the line combos is that he doesn't hesitate to reward forwards that are playing well by bumping them up the line-up and giving them more playing time... It gives the bottom 6 players motivation to play harder because they know they'll be rewarded for it with more playing time... It also reminds the top 6 forwards that they'll be demoted if their play struggles... I think people want to assume that leaving the lines together for long stretches of time will produce consistency and results, but that's just blind optimism... The lines wouldn't be mixed up so often if the players weren't so inconsistent... It's not like Torts breaks up lines that are playing well just for the hell of it... The lines that have been consistent do get left together, look at how many games Wolski - Stepan - MZA have played together, and Feds - Boyle - Prust....

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Old
03-05-2011, 12:05 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
One positive about how he manages the line combos is that he doesn't hesitate to reward forwards that are playing well by bumping them up the line-up and giving them more playing time... It gives the bottom 6 players motivation to play harder because they know they'll be rewarded for it with more playing time... It also reminds the top 6 forwards that they'll be demoted if their play struggles... I think people want to assume that leaving the lines together for long stretches of time will produce consistency and results, but that's just blind optimism... The lines wouldn't be mixed up so often if the players weren't so inconsistent... It's not like Torts breaks up lines that are playing well just for the hell of it... The lines that have been consistent do get left together, look at how many games Wolski - Stepan - MZA have played together, and Feds - Boyle - Prust....
Agreed, although I do think he's broken up lines while they were still going pretty well a couple of times this year. He's done a great job overall in my opinion, but he's thrown a few headscratchers in there too.

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03-05-2011, 12:11 AM
  #163
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Are you saying Tortorella advocated trading Gilroy by playing him instead of Eminger?
I'm saying IDK if Sather was trying to pick up another veteran defense man or not.

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03-05-2011, 12:16 AM
  #164
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One positive about how he manages the line combos is that he doesn't hesitate to reward forwards that are playing well by bumping them up the line-up and giving them more playing time... It gives the bottom 6 players motivation to play harder because they know they'll be rewarded for it with more playing time... It also reminds the top 6 forwards that they'll be demoted if their play struggles... I think people want to assume that leaving the lines together for long stretches of time will produce consistency and results, but that's just blind optimism... The lines wouldn't be mixed up so often if the players weren't so inconsistent... It's not like Torts breaks up lines that are playing well just for the hell of it... The lines that have been consistent do get left together, look at how many games Wolski - Stepan - MZA have played together, and Feds - Boyle - Prust....
Great points! Very well said. Bravo...

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03-05-2011, 12:23 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
One positive about how he manages the line combos is that he doesn't hesitate to reward forwards that are playing well by bumping them up the line-up and giving them more playing time... It gives the bottom 6 players motivation to play harder because they know they'll be rewarded for it with more playing time... It also reminds the top 6 forwards that they'll be demoted if their play struggles... I think people want to assume that leaving the lines together for long stretches of time will produce consistency and results, but that's just blind optimism... The lines wouldn't be mixed up so often if the players weren't so inconsistent... It's not like Torts breaks up lines that are playing well just for the hell of it... The lines that have been consistent do get left together, look at how many games Wolski - Stepan - MZA have played together, and Feds - Boyle - Prust....
He hesitates bumping Avery up.

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03-05-2011, 12:46 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Gaborik, Lundqvist, Avery, Rosy, Eminger

Quite obvious he's had problems managing all these players in one way or another.
Gaborik's lack of scoring is rooted in poor management from Torts?

What coach hasn't had problems with Avery?

How's Roszi looking in Phoenix?

Eminger is playing exactly as you'd expect a bottom tier dman to play. And although he hasn't been spectacular lately, he's already shown me more than I expected.

Lundqvist? Where's the quite obvious problem that I'm missing?

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03-05-2011, 03:28 AM
  #167
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The team's burned out from playing so hard the first half of the season..

Yeah, that might be tort's fault, but what was he supposed to do? Tell them to take it easy the first half and fall out of contention before trying to play hard?

Avery I don't think is used to his full potential.. but he's his own problem.. How can you rely on a guy who puts himself in the penalty box for an entire period? If you put him on the 1st or 2nd line, and he takes a major + minor + misconduct now you're missing someone on your first 2 lines for like 7 shifts. That's a big problem for a coach, that's why avery does not get ice time!

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03-05-2011, 08:33 AM
  #168
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If we beat philly tomorrow, the Jack Adams band wagon shall begin anew!! lol


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03-05-2011, 09:42 AM
  #169
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If we beat philly tomorrow, the Jack Adams band wagon shall begin anew!! lol

BTW we were unable to win against several teams this season: Tampa, Colorado, Montreal and Flyers. I think that is really pathetic.


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03-05-2011, 10:16 AM
  #170
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Poppycock!.. Tort's has done a great job with what's he got. Plain and simple if some of the veterens..Gabby-Frolov-Prospal-Avery to name a few would have come to play this year this team would be buckin' for the President's trophy.
I love what their doin' here with the young guys. McD-Steps-Zuke-Sauer..This team for once, actually has a future. Leave it be!

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03-05-2011, 10:20 AM
  #171
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Gaborik's lack of scoring is rooted in poor management from Torts?

What coach hasn't had problems with Avery?

How's Roszi looking in Phoenix?

Eminger is playing exactly as you'd expect a bottom tier dman to play. And although he hasn't been spectacular lately, he's already shown me more than I expected.

Lundqvist? Where's the quite obvious problem that I'm missing?
Avery is folk-hero-esque around here. The guy is a decent player, but there's way too much moaning and groaning over him getting 8:00 minutes or 12:34. It's not like he's head and shoulders above the people that are playing more than him and he's got a terrible tendency towards moving the puck in the wrong direction (playing backwards).

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03-05-2011, 02:07 PM
  #172
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How is it humiliating? We have a young team that is still growing. What did you expect for this year? Going into the season many here were skeptical and many projected us to finish 7-10 in the conference. Seems like they were pretty spot on. So why should we be down on torts? We saw this coming. Its called growing pains. This team is on the right path. Torts got them on that path. Its not his fault he doesnt have a number one center that can distribute the puck to his best player.

Hate threads like these.
Well, to play devils advocate, if your coach can't lift your team beyond expectations, what exactly is he worth? If the point is that Torts can win if given great players, how would that distinguish him from any other coach?

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03-05-2011, 02:33 PM
  #173
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Well, to play devils advocate, if your coach can't lift your team beyond expectations, what exactly is he worth? If the point is that Torts can win if given great players, how would that distinguish him from any other coach?
Yeah that's exactly the point. The same people who are making the argument that he's done a great job or what do you expect of him with this roster obviously don't understand the role of a head coach.

You can't have it both ways. It can't be giving him credit for the job he's done this year and then saying what do you expect him to do with this team?

I think for the majority of the season he's done a pretty good job. I also believe that a lot of our losses can be attributed to him.

I've also seen him single out certain players while giving others a free pass consistently.

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03-05-2011, 02:52 PM
  #174
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i guess tortorella injured 1/2 the team

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03-05-2011, 02:59 PM
  #175
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u know why this is rediculous, because the rangers put in a guy who is aiding in helping rebuild this team and an identity and because of ur lack of patience when this team finally takes a turn in the right direction, u call for his head. cant u just wait it out????? how do u expect youth to grow and learn when u want the rangers coaching job to be a revolving door. u cant fire a coach for 2 years of missing the playoffs. have some patience and let the team come together. everyones injured and this team is all youth right now.

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