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03-02-2011, 12:59 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Note to self: Posting and getting involved in the Trade section on the main boards is never a good idea. Next time someone sees me actually posting there please e-slap me. Especially if it has anything to do with Weber.
i noticed that war, I have had past experiences with other Weber threads and I have refused to comment on them since

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03-02-2011, 05:02 AM
  #152
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And doesn't anyone think that Weber is smart enough to look at how this team has been decimated by injuries this year and go, we had a good team, some guys got hurt, we got a guy like Fisher and then more guys got hurt? If we go out and get a dynamic scorer, how exactly are we going to pay for it at this point? We had a team that the GM and coach both liked. I think we all liked the possibilities. Who would've thought Lombardi would go down in the middle of game 2? Who would've thought O'Reilly would play well for us and then go down with an injury? Who thought Goc would play well with SK and Erat and be in and out of the lineup like he has been and now he's gone for the year too.

I'm not making excuses for the team but the reality is we've been crippled by injuries yet we've hung in to this point. I think Weber is smart enough to see this and isn't going to be swayed by a season in which all this happened. At least I hope he wouldn't. Let's finish out the season and then worry about this. Worrying about what Weber is going to do at this point is pointless because none of us know and neither does he. We can speculate all we want but at the end of the day, the ownership is ready to open up the wallets for him and Suter. Let's see them do that and if they choose to bolt, then something is up.

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03-02-2011, 07:45 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
And doesn't anyone think that Weber is smart enough to look at how this team has been decimated by injuries this year and go, we had a good team, some guys got hurt, we got a guy like Fisher and then more guys got hurt? If we go out and get a dynamic scorer, how exactly are we going to pay for it at this point? We had a team that the GM and coach both liked. I think we all liked the possibilities. Who would've thought Lombardi would go down in the middle of game 2? Who would've thought O'Reilly would play well for us and then go down with an injury? Who thought Goc would play well with SK and Erat and be in and out of the lineup like he has been and now he's gone for the year too.

I'm not making excuses for the team but the reality is we've been crippled by injuries yet we've hung in to this point. I think Weber is smart enough to see this and isn't going to be swayed by a season in which all this happened. At least I hope he wouldn't. Let's finish out the season and then worry about this. Worrying about what Weber is going to do at this point is pointless because none of us know and neither does he. We can speculate all we want but at the end of the day, the ownership is ready to open up the wallets for him and Suter. Let's see them do that and if they choose to bolt, then something is up.
+1 +1 +1

It would be different if we had the slump we had with everyone healthy. Then you'd have to wonder if you have the right team/coach/management. The players are smart enough to realize what some of the problem is this year. When you're playing with a rookie defenseman, a rookie forward and another rookie forward (Halischuk) and the first two have less than five games of experience, you have an injury problem. It's not like we're Edmonton.

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03-02-2011, 08:13 AM
  #154
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But who's everyone that will return healthy? The injured guys are either older and will be fading anyway, or uncertain as to whether they will ever produce much for us, Lombardi and O'Reilly. We know Sully is done, Dumont is done. The only guy who we know could do some things in the future is Goc. Who is merely a third line player, not a great player. Maybe O'Reilly, but nobody knows what his regular level of play will end up being.

So yeah, injuries killed us this year, but Weber may also see this team needs some rebuilding. You think he'd say "Oh well we get a healthy Goc and O'Reilly next year we're contenders!" Maybe... But Poile has a modest rebuilding job now. Maybe only a pieces or two away, but who knows if he can get them. Does Weber want to assume Taylor Beck is here and producing three years from now? At which time Legwand and Erat will be fading, Fisher will be leaving.

Nobody can say we have the forward core to be contenders. We thought maybe we did with Lombardi. But if Fisher's line can't score playing with Erat and SK, is he really going to make our third line worth a $4 million center the next two years? I hope so.

At least if we re-sign Weber and Suter and Rinne, we will have a Cup contending defense, with Blum and whoever.

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03-02-2011, 08:21 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
But who's everyone that will return healthy? The injured guys are either older and will be fading anyway, or uncertain as to whether they will ever produce much for us, Lombardi and O'Reilly. We know Sully is done, Dumont is done. The only guy who we know could do some things in the future is Goc. Who is merely a third line player, not a great player. Maybe O'Reilly, but nobody knows what his regular level of play will end up being.

So yeah, injuries killed us this year, but Weber may also see this team needs some rebuilding. You think he'd say "Oh well we get a healthy Goc and O'Reilly next year we're contenders!" Maybe... But Poile has a modest rebuilding job now. Maybe only a pieces or two away, but who knows if he can get them. Does Weber want to assume Taylor Beck is here and producing three years from now? At which time Legwand and Erat will be fading, Fisher will be leaving.

Nobody can say we have the forward core to be contenders. We thought maybe we did with Lombardi. But if Fisher's line can't score playing with Erat and SK, is he really going to make our third line worth a $4 million center the next two years? I hope so.

At least if we re-sign Weber and Suter and Rinne, we will have a Cup contending defense, with Blum and whoever.
Fisher has more offensive ability than Lombardi. Lombardi's top goal scoring year is 19.

We basically have a lot of guys that are ideal third liners\good second liners making a lot of money, and none of them are producing.

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03-02-2011, 08:31 AM
  #156
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Frankly, if I was Weber and wanted to stay in Nashville at least equal to anywhere but the final swing vote was going to be whether we could win, I'd see how strong our defense will be if those guys all re-up. And just trust the fact that Poile can make changes. Nashville could look like a place to be able to win.

And while overpaid for scoring, it's not like Erat and Legwand are going to stink the next couple years. Heck, Geoffrion has scored goals wherever he's been. He may be good for 18 someday. Wilson may be good for 25. Hornqvist doesn't stink. Maddening they can't get the puck in right now though but we have just two top three centers really, unless Spaling and Smithson count.

Nothing's a given. But we seem both to need some rebuilding, but also have a lot of pieces to a good team.

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03-02-2011, 08:36 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Fisher has more offensive ability than Lombardi. Lombardi's top goal scoring year is 19.

We basically have a lot of guys that are ideal third liners\good second liners making a lot of money, and none of them are producing.
this is the heart of the matter.

you can be a good team with 6 15-20 goal scorers(and no superstars)... as long as they dont cluster their slumps and binges. Poile's strategy is highly dependent on the players spreading out their goals randomly and failry evenly.

we were thriving when we would get goals from hornqvist and Goc one night then Erat and Wilson another, etc...

when they all get hot together, we go on a win streak.... when they all slump together... we get what we have had for the last month...

the season will turn on whether they can all get hot again and we can come up with one more win streak...

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03-02-2011, 08:51 AM
  #158
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We knew from the beginning this team would depend on it's offensive depth to score goals. We didn't have any great goal scorer but a bunch of decent offesive guys. Then we lose. When you lose as many of our marginal scoring type players as we have it really has hurt. Think about how many of the players that are out for the season were expected to play offensive roles for us,now compound that with Legwand missing 20 games, Erat missing a bunch, Suter missing more than a few.

Injuries happen, I understand but let's list our lines coming into the season.

Erat-O'Reilly-SK
Sullivan-Lombardi-Horngvist
Ward-Legwand-Dumont
Tootoo-Goc-Smithson

Dumont totally went south on us, as did Sullivan but Sullivan started out on fire, then got hurt, out for the season.
O'Reilly was a total shock at how well he played, then bam out for the season.
Goc stepped up and was really playing wel too, then bam he's out for the season.
Say what you want about Tootoo but he did play well to start the season, then, he missed a ton and really last night was the first time he looked like Tootoo.
Lombardi was supposed to come in and play a big role for us, he played 2 games then, he's out for the season.

We don't have one player we depend on to score goals, we're built to do it by committee and it's tough when you take 5 of the playes (4 by injuries the other is Dumont) out of that committee.

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03-06-2011, 10:26 AM
  #159
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THN: trade Weber?

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...exploring.html

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03-06-2011, 10:52 AM
  #160
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at least it was thought out, and he makes points. but nothing none of us have talked about before.

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03-06-2011, 10:58 AM
  #161
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Ok, an insane idea, if one of Weber Suter goes, should they Both go?

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03-06-2011, 11:11 AM
  #162
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Ok, an insane idea, if one of Weber Suter goes, should they Both go?
no. i would rather just avoid either going altogether. i would be irate if we couldn't pay each of them 7 mill a year if we had to knowing we could trot out klein at a mil or two per, an min salaried vet and 2 kids. franson can go an dfree up cash, bc you know he will cost in another year prob 2-3 million. we have the luxury of a revolving door of entry level contracts that we can continue to trot out there. now, say josi, or blum, or ekholm develop into a top 2 guy, I think suter becomes expendable. a I am in the group that believes suter is the better overall player, but webers skillset and tenacity doesn't grow on trees

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03-06-2011, 11:30 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
no. i would rather just avoid either going altogether. i would be irate if we couldn't pay each of them 7 mill a year if we had to knowing we could trot out klein at a mil or two per, an min salaried vet and 2 kids. franson can go an dfree up cash, bc you know he will cost in another year prob 2-3 million. we have the luxury of a revolving door of entry level contracts that we can continue to trot out there. now, say josi, or blum, or ekholm develop into a top 2 guy, I think suter becomes expendable. a I am in the group that believes suter is the better overall player, but webers skillset and tenacity doesn't grow on trees
While I agree with you on Weber's skill set, who makes the other players around them better? I'm going with Suter on that one. It also depends on who develops out of Josi, Blum, Ekholm, Ellis or COR. If it's Josi, Suter does become more expendable. If it's a guy like COR then Weber is the one to go.

I don't think either are going anywhere anytime soon. I asked Cooper on the fishwrap chat the other day the status of both Weber and Suter's contracts and he said they'd be discussed after the season. Sounds like they're working on getting both re-signed and want to do it ASAP.

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03-06-2011, 12:28 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
While I agree with you on Weber's skill set, who makes the other players around them better? I'm going with Suter on that one. It also depends on who develops out of Josi, Blum, Ekholm, Ellis or COR. If it's Josi, Suter does become more expendable. If it's a guy like COR then Weber is the one to go.

I don't think either are going anywhere anytime soon. I asked Cooper on the fishwrap chat the other day the status of both Weber and Suter's contracts and he said they'd be discussed after the season. Sounds like they're working on getting both re-signed and want to do it ASAP.

i agree glenn, and i think the internet makes it seem like we wouldn't. i think they both get done, i was just trying to offer hypotheticals for discussion. i hope they both sign for a long time so the snobs can weep themselves to sleep.

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03-06-2011, 12:35 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
While I agree with you on Weber's skill set, who makes the other players around them better? I'm going with Suter on that one. It also depends on who develops out of Josi, Blum, Ekholm, Ellis or COR. If it's Josi, Suter does become more expendable. If it's a guy like COR then Weber is the one to go.

I don't think either are going anywhere anytime soon. I asked Cooper on the fishwrap chat the other day the status of both Weber and Suter's contracts and he said they'd be discussed after the season. Sounds like they're working on getting both re-signed and want to do it ASAP.
I think token's point was, and this is an assumption so I'm probably wrong, Suter is the better player but the one more likely to be replaceable with one of Blum, Josi, Ellis. Suter does make players around him better, Weber included. I think one of those three will have the ability to do the same.

I'd rather keep them both, too. It's a unique situation if we aren't able to sign them both. Suter is the better player, but also the one more likely to be replaceable with what we have in our system. Weber is likely to draw a bigger proposal, and almost guaranteed to command the higher salary. I hope it remains a luxury rather than it turning into what would have to be an incredibly hard decision.


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03-06-2011, 12:39 PM
  #166
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I liken our situation with Weber and Suter to that of Anaheim with Pronger and Neidermayer. One year they trade away Pronger, the next year Neidermayer retires. Granted, different situations but sucked that they had one of the best pairings in the league to find themselves with Lupul, Sbisa and I believe a pick for the two of them. They lucked out big time with Fowler as that kid is a keeper. With the addition of Beauchemin and having a few guys there already, they're a lot better than I thought they'd be on the back end but it's hard to replace those types of guys.

Grinder, we totally agree on the situation, just hard to convey on here sometimes.

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03-07-2011, 12:36 PM
  #167
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I was asking that because I keep having this craw in my mind where the Preds trade Weber for Parise and then trade Suter for Rick Nash.

Insane, yup, but that's just the cabin fever talking.

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03-07-2011, 02:34 PM
  #168
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I was asking that because I keep having this craw in my mind where the Preds trade Weber for Parise and then trade Suter for Rick Nash.

Insane, yup, but that's just the cabin fever talking.
I'd actually be ok with that as long as we got a new coach that let Nash and Parise express themselves offensively.

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03-11-2011, 01:16 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I liken our situation with Weber and Suter to that of Anaheim with Pronger and Neidermayer. One year they trade away Pronger, the next year Neidermayer retires. Granted, different situations but sucked that they had one of the best pairings in the league to find themselves with Lupul, Sbisa and I believe a pick for the two of them. They lucked out big time with Fowler as that kid is a keeper. With the addition of Beauchemin and having a few guys there already, they're a lot better than I thought they'd be on the back end but it's hard to replace those types of guys.

Grinder, we totally agree on the situation, just hard to convey on here sometimes.

I agree, it is similar. And thus, one of Weber or Suter will be gone.

On their next contracts, I figure the two of them will be earning a combined $13 to 15M in real dollars and probably at least $10 to 12M in cap hit. I can find only a few instances of teams investing that sort of money in their top two d-men (DET: Lidstrom-Rafalski, PHI: Timmonen-Pronger, BOS: Chara-Kaberle, CHI: Campbell-Keith, TOR: Phaneuf-Komisarek) but all are cap ceiling teams (unless I missed something).

If Poile determines keeping both is not economically feasible, logically, he'll trade the one that will:
-garner the greater return (in the form of cheap quality players)
-provide the lower bang for the buck (esp in terms of TOI)

IMO, Weber meets both of those criterion. I can see the return for him being a package of two good NHL players (one on an ELC, the other on his second contract in the range of $2-3M) and a first rounder at least. That would leave NSH with enough budget dollars to sign a UFA as well. So in the end, the net return could be three NHL players for Weber. And if scenario such as this does unfold, it'll happen this summer.

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03-11-2011, 08:08 AM
  #170
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I agree, it is similar. And thus, one of Weber or Suter will be gone.
Ah, I see..... you're a Predators fan, out there in BC, and you have particular insight into how Mr. Poile builds this team. So, you know someone inside the organization? Some other way that you have information - way out there - that none of us have? Or perhaps the word "troll" applies?

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03-11-2011, 08:22 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
I agree, it is similar. And thus, one of Weber or Suter will be gone.

On their next contracts, I figure the two of them will be earning a combined $13 to 15M in real dollars and probably at least $10 to 12M in cap hit. I can find only a few instances of teams investing that sort of money in their top two d-men (DET: Lidstrom-Rafalski, PHI: Timmonen-Pronger, BOS: Chara-Kaberle, CHI: Campbell-Keith, TOR: Phaneuf-Komisarek) but all are cap ceiling teams (unless I missed something).

If Poile determines keeping both is not economically feasible, logically, he'll trade the one that will:
-garner the greater return (in the form of cheap quality players)
-provide the lower bang for the buck (esp in terms of TOI)

IMO, Weber meets both of those criterion. I can see the return for him being a package of two good NHL players (one on an ELC, the other on his second contract in the range of $2-3M) and a first rounder at least. That would leave NSH with enough budget dollars to sign a UFA as well. So in the end, the net return could be three NHL players for Weber. And if scenario such as this does unfold, it'll happen this summer.
I am not going to lie, I read the bolded line and no more. Anaheim was in a different situation. They had to let one go becasue they had to pony up to sign neidermeyer, selanne, getzlaf, and perry. they were looking at ryan the year after, plus had hiller to get under contract. they were looking at 6 contracts for 30 million bucks. they add pronger-who wanted a long deal, that is 7 players at 35-38 million bucks a year last year (now I know ryan's contract wasn't huge until this year, but sub prongers in for his last year, and now omit neids, it makes sense) this year it is back to 6 players and 30 million.

that is your difference, anaheim wanted to build around hiller and their top line. nashville wants to build around pekka and their top pair.

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03-11-2011, 12:28 PM
  #172
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I am not going to lie, I read the bolded line and no more. Anaheim was in a different situation. They had to let one go becasue they had to pony up to sign neidermeyer, selanne, getzlaf, and perry. they were looking at ryan the year after, plus had hiller to get under contract. they were looking at 6 contracts for 30 million bucks. they add pronger-who wanted a long deal, that is 7 players at 35-38 million bucks a year last year (now I know ryan's contract wasn't huge until this year, but sub prongers in for his last year, and now omit neids, it makes sense) this year it is back to 6 players and 30 million.

that is your difference, anaheim wanted to build around hiller and their top line. nashville wants to build around pekka and their top pair.
This is basically everything I was planning on saying in response to our friend from Vancouver. They must really want Weber bad up there in BC. It seems that for every fan of any other team or from any other location that thinks Weber will be gone, two Canuck fans or Vancouverites come along with the same idea.

Yeah but seriously... look at contracts due in Anaheim versus contracts due in Nashville. It isn't that hard to figure out the obvious difference. Besides the post that you quoted and agreed with wasn't about not being able to afford both Suter and Weber. It was in response to an idea of trading both of them for scoring help. Our situations would be similar then because we'd go from arguably the best pairing in the league to second and third pairing guys with cheap vets and unproven rookies filling holes.

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