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Old
03-06-2011, 03:00 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Bingo. Nothing else to say here, we was robbed clear as day.
It's not always black and white. If that was the case, we could always fake a push in front of the net and get the call. Doughty went down really easily and it shouldn't have been a call.

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03-06-2011, 03:03 AM
  #27
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To be completely honest (even from a Canuck fan perspective), our fanbase would've complained if that was going the other way, so not surprised by the reaction on the LA board.

However, there probably wasn't enough for the referee to go on in order to make a call, but then again, referees these days are quite unpredictable...

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03-06-2011, 07:59 AM
  #28
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I am a Canucks fan and I can see your guys frustration with this call. I disagree with the fact that the goaltender was interfered with, BUT Daniel did push Doughty. But let me bring a different perspective here. Doughty had been called for diving earlier in the game. Could this of shot his credibility with the refs for the game? A few of our players(EG. Burrows) developed a reputation for diving and seems to not get as many calls as he used to.

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03-06-2011, 08:40 AM
  #29
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Any brushing of Quick by Burrows was initiated outside of the crease and is typically allowed if the player doesn't completely run over the goaltender. Sometimes it gets called but it shouldn't be and wasn't. It also wasn't the contact that prevented Quick from making the save on the goal (the problem was his own players on top of him).

Doughty dove plain and simple. The angle from the Kings feed shows that pretty clearly. It was not a Bertuzzi-esque push off. It was a slight battle for space that Sedin won when Doughty decided to take a huge dive. Not smart to begin with and even less smart given he had received a prior diving penalty in the game. The refs were not going to give Doughty the benefit of the doubt and he should have known that. Not exactly sure what Doughty was thinking for most of the game (and season for that matter).

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03-06-2011, 09:12 AM
  #30
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it's over move on

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03-06-2011, 09:26 AM
  #31
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Not trying to stir the pot at all, just wanted to share some insight on the situation. First of all, it's a goal. No NHL ref is going to call Daniel for that, and Burrows' contact was well before the goal. Wouldn't be many goals in the NHL if they disscounted those types.

What I noticed though is the Kings remind me a lot of the Canucks in past years. Young, talented team that lost their composure at times and spent too much time commenting to the media, it only hurts yourself. Canucks learned this the hard way.

- Burrows cried to the media about Auger setting him up, Canucks proceeded to get stiffed by the refs for the rest of the year. Mistake. Keep your mouth shut. Yelling and screaming at the refs like a 6 year old will not change their mind or help you get calls in the future. No point. Go to the bench and complain.

- Kesler calls Hawks players derogitory names to the media. This serves only to piss the Hawks off. Guess what the gameplan will be next time these team match-up? Quick will be busy, put it that way.

- Canucks lose their composure chasing the Hawks around, many PPs result in hanging their heads and returning to Vancouver. You lose your cool in the playoffs and it's over.

We've seen a new Canucks team this year however. Gone is the whining, gone is the name-calling and blaming the refs. Replaced by discipline. We'll see if it pays dividens. There comes a time when a team needs to take responsibility. The Kings' captain is probably the NHL's biggest diver. Along with Doughty's behaviour, there is no room for Quick to call another team divers. Especially one that has cleaned up it's act.

Again, I'm not here to attack the Kings, just comment on something I noticed. Kings are a very young and talented team that will be a force to be reckoned with. Hopefully they take the right lessons from this game, because all they did was annoy the refs, and piss off the top team in the NHL, while providing them a blueprint on how to beat you. I think all successful teams learn this and it will be the next step for the Kings. You can't change what the refs call or how your opponent plays. LA coaches need to get them focused on their own game and not so caught up in what the Canucks are doing.

Because I can assure you the next time these two teams meet, Quick's crease will be crashed, Mr. Sensitive Doughty will be picked on, and players just try not to touch Brown when a ref is around. Again, it just reminds me a lot of the Canucks of the past couple years. Natural part of becoming a top team. Which the Kings will be. Just an observation.

Forgot how much I love Willie Mitchell. The guys is a warrior and doesn't change his game for anyone.

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03-06-2011, 09:47 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Not trying to stir the pot at all, just wanted to share some insight on the situation. First of all, it's a goal. No NHL ref is going to call Daniel for that, and Burrows' contact was well before the goal. Wouldn't be many goals in the NHL if they disscounted those types.

What I noticed though is the Kings remind me a lot of the Canucks in past years. Young, talented team that lost their composure at times and spent too much time commenting to the media, it only hurts yourself. Canucks learned this the hard way.

- Burrows cried to the media about Auger setting him up, Canucks proceeded to get stiffed by the refs for the rest of the year. Mistake. Keep your mouth shut. Yelling and screaming at the refs like a 6 year old will not change their mind or help you get calls in the future. No point. Go to the bench and complain.

- Kesler calls Hawks players derogitory names to the media. This serves only to piss the Hawks off. Guess what the gameplan will be next time these team match-up? Quick will be busy, put it that way.

- Canucks lose their composure chasing the Hawks around, many PPs result in hanging their heads and returning to Vancouver. You lose your cool in the playoffs and it's over.

We've seen a new Canucks team this year however. Gone is the whining, gone is the name-calling and blaming the refs. Replaced by discipline. We'll see if it pays dividens. There comes a time when a team needs to take responsibility. The Kings' captain is probably the NHL's biggest diver. Along with Doughty's behaviour, there is no room for Quick to call another team divers. Especially one that has cleaned up it's act.

Again, I'm not here to attack the Kings, just comment on something I noticed. Kings are a very young and talented team that will be a force to be reckoned with. Hopefully they take the right lessons from this game, because all they did was annoy the refs, and piss off the top team in the NHL, while providing them a blueprint on how to beat you. I think all successful teams learn this and it will be the next step for the Kings. You can't change what the refs call or how your opponent plays. LA coaches need to get them focused on their own game and not so caught up in what the Canucks are doing.

Because I can assure you the next time these two teams meet, Quick's crease will be crashed, Mr. Sensitive Doughty will be picked on, and players just try not to touch Brown when a ref is around. Again, it just reminds me a lot of the Canucks of the past couple years. Natural part of becoming a top team. Which the Kings will be. Just an observation.

Forgot how much I love Willie Mitchell. The guys is a warrior and doesn't change his game for anyone.
thanks for your words of wisdom....

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03-06-2011, 11:41 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Not trying to stir the pot at all, just wanted to share some insight on the situation. First of all, it's a goal. No NHL ref is going to call Daniel for that, and Burrows' contact was well before the goal. Wouldn't be many goals in the NHL if they disscounted those types.

What I noticed though is the Kings remind me a lot of the Canucks in past years. Young, talented team that lost their composure at times and spent too much time commenting to the media, it only hurts yourself. Canucks learned this the hard way.

- Burrows cried to the media about Auger setting him up, Canucks proceeded to get stiffed by the refs for the rest of the year. Mistake. Keep your mouth shut. Yelling and screaming at the refs like a 6 year old will not change their mind or help you get calls in the future. No point. Go to the bench and complain.

- Kesler calls Hawks players derogitory names to the media. This serves only to piss the Hawks off. Guess what the gameplan will be next time these team match-up? Quick will be busy, put it that way.

- Canucks lose their composure chasing the Hawks around, many PPs result in hanging their heads and returning to Vancouver. You lose your cool in the playoffs and it's over.

We've seen a new Canucks team this year however. Gone is the whining, gone is the name-calling and blaming the refs. Replaced by discipline. We'll see if it pays dividens. There comes a time when a team needs to take responsibility. The Kings' captain is probably the NHL's biggest diver. Along with Doughty's behaviour, there is no room for Quick to call another team divers. Especially one that has cleaned up it's act.

Again, I'm not here to attack the Kings, just comment on something I noticed. Kings are a very young and talented team that will be a force to be reckoned with. Hopefully they take the right lessons from this game, because all they did was annoy the refs, and piss off the top team in the NHL, while providing them a blueprint on how to beat you. I think all successful teams learn this and it will be the next step for the Kings. You can't change what the refs call or how your opponent plays. LA coaches need to get them focused on their own game and not so caught up in what the Canucks are doing.

Because I can assure you the next time these two teams meet, Quick's crease will be crashed, Mr. Sensitive Doughty will be picked on, and players just try not to touch Brown when a ref is around. Again, it just reminds me a lot of the Canucks of the past couple years. Natural part of becoming a top team. Which the Kings will be. Just an observation.

Forgot how much I love Willie Mitchell. The guys is a warrior and doesn't change his game for anyone.
To be fair, I could see why you would say this based on yesterday's game...but truth is, we usually have to deal with a NO emotion team, so yesterday was the polar extreme. Also, I know the DL/war room situation was very visible, but aside from that and yesterday's incident, I have a hard time remembering any other occasion where any players/staff cried to the media after a poo-poo call (not more so than any other team, anyway). Like i said, the ship is run by robot Terry Murray, so getting emotion out of them is like trying to breathe life into a rock. I guess they just got up like crazy for the Canucks!

I do agree that the guys are starting to make names for themselves, and I do agree that there is a similar learning curve to Kesler, Burrows (well, he's still a dick ), et. al., but yesterday's game was certainly an aberration in terms of behavior.

Long story short, I agree with your assessment of the players and their learning, but disagree that yesterday's behavior was 'typical' enough of this team.

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03-06-2011, 12:52 PM
  #34
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Seeing it live and hearing the reaction from Murray and the players I thought it should have been waived off, no minor penalty.

Seeing it again on the replay, could have gone either way. The initial contact from Burrows was what Quick had a problem with, then you have Doughty calling for a penalty against Daniel Sedin. They both made contact and aggregately they robbed Quick of his position but I could see where they wouldn't waive it off for one particular violation. The major contact is Doughty on Quick as far as the shot that scored (Sedin's), if anything would be interference against whoever pushed Doughty.

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03-06-2011, 01:22 PM
  #35
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Seeing it live and hearing the reaction from Murray and the players I thought it should have been waived off, no minor penalty.

Seeing it again on the replay, could have gone either way. The initial contact from Burrows was what Quick had a problem with, then you have Doughty calling for a penalty against Daniel Sedin. They both made contact and aggregately they robbed Quick of his position but I could see where they wouldn't waive it off for one particular violation. The major contact is Doughty on Quick as far as the shot that scored (Sedin's), if anything would be interference against whoever pushed Doughty.
According to the NHL rulebook the goal should have been waived off, no words can explain my frustration with inconsistent calls happening all over the league, it's killing hockey IMO.

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03-06-2011, 01:27 PM
  #36
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was there enough to waive the goal off based on the rule book? yes

is it likely this goal and others like it will be waived off during a game? very unlikely

if LA had scored the goal and won the game then VAN would be upset. it's a grey area-grey rule that inevitably will leave one team pissed off and the other saying to 'quit crying and play'. the only goals that get waived off is when there is a blatant and over the top contact in the crease. what happened yesterday isn't even close to that level.

the Sedin bump to me is the same as a WR in football pushing off from a DB. the WR rarely gets called for offensive PI unless it's blatant. WR's have always intentionally used some type of push, brush off, hip, forearm to gain position and a window of opportunity to catch the ball.

guys in the NHL do the same thing to gain separation in high traffic. whether it's a subtle cross check or forearm to a defender. using your feet or stick on an opponents skate to move them or cause them to stumble. backing into them with your ass to knock them back or sideways.

this happens countless times every game and it's not going anyplace. it's part of the game. you call bs, dont get the call, shake yourself off and play. the likelihood of getting a reversal is slim to none. control what you can control

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03-06-2011, 01:54 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Andrew Knoll View Post
The initial contact from Burrows was what Quick had a problem with, then you have Doughty calling for a penalty against Daniel Sedin.
This is what the problem was. If you're going by the absolute letter of the law, can you call penalties on that play? Yes. But NHL officiating is seldom about going by the letter of the law. They simply cannot and do not call every possible infraction, as they have a responsibility to control the flow of the game as well. Mild, borderline infractions are committed 100 times a game that don't get called, and as a fan of the sport believe me when I say you don't want them all called or the game will lose all pace and intensity. As we move into the playoffs even less is called. That's how it's always been, that's how it will most likely continue to be. And as a fan of a slightly built skill team that relies heavily on its power play believe me when I say I appreciate why this might feel frustrating sometimes, but for better or worse it's the way the game is officiated.

So what needs to happen on the ice is Quick and Doughty need to maintain their composure. Quick needs to worry about stopping the puck, and Doughty needs to worry about holding his ground in the crease, and neither of them need to be craning their necks around looking for an arm up. Their focus has to be on the game and what's happening around them, not on what's being called and what isn't. Luongo, for example, has been an inveterate diver in the past. Always flopping and writhing in the crease at the slightest contact. When the officials decided they were going to let Byfuglien do whatever he wanted in the crease, Luongo completely lost his focus. If he'd concentrated more on stopping pucks and less about all the injustices he felt he was being subjected to, he probably wouldn't have gotten ventilated the way he did.

Complaining about officiating is as pointless as complaining about the weather. Sometimes the wind is at your back, and sometimes it's in your face. No sense whining about it, because every team has their own "we were robbed by officials!" story, and none of them ever got awarded points retroactively for their angst.

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03-06-2011, 01:56 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
was there enough to waive the goal off based on the rule book? yes

is it likely this goal and others like it will be waived off during a game? very unlikely

if LA had scored the goal and won the game then VAN would be upset. it's a grey area-grey rule that inevitably will leave one team pissed off and the other saying to 'quit crying and play'. the only goals that get waived off is when there is a blatant and over the top contact in the crease. what happened yesterday isn't even close to that level.

the Sedin bump to me is the same as a WR in football pushing off from a DB. the WR rarely gets called for offensive PI unless it's blatant. WR's have always intentionally used some type of push, brush off, hip, forearm to gain position and a window of opportunity to catch the ball.

guys in the NHL do the same thing to gain separation in high traffic. whether it's a subtle cross check or forearm to a defender. using your feet or stick on an opponents skate to move them or cause them to stumble. backing into them with your ass to knock them back or sideways.

this happens countless times every game and it's not going anyplace. it's part of the game. you call bs, dont get the call, shake yourself off and play. the likelihood of getting a reversal is slim to none. control what you can control
Sage wisdom. We'd be just as po'd, but we've had similar things with skate goals that by the rules should have counted but didn't.
Really great post.

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03-06-2011, 02:00 PM
  #39
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Bad calls happen often (and we have definitely experienced some very bad ones going against us), but that goal shouldn't have been the nail in the coffin. If we had a respectable PP, it would have been tied, at least, and we would have gotten a point out of it. Hell, with a good PP, we might have even been able to pot two.

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03-06-2011, 02:00 PM
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Sage wisdom. We'd be just as po'd, but we've had similar things with skate goals that by the rules should have counted but didn't.
Really great post.
And the Kings have been on the wrong side of two high-stick goals this season. This has been a bad season for refs overall, not just for the Kings and Canucks. We've all seen some really strange decisions this season by the on and off ice officials.

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03-06-2011, 02:03 PM
  #41
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And the Kings have been on the wrong side of two high-stick goals this season. This has been a bad season for refs overall, not just for the Kings and Canucks. We've all seen some really strange decisions this season by the on and off ice officials.
Oh no doubt. Over the last couple of weeks we've had almost no power players. At least 3 games we only got 1. Its like if you are going to be obvious then just tell us you aren't going to let us get on the PP before the game

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03-06-2011, 02:40 PM
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Doughty dove, clear as day.

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03-06-2011, 02:41 PM
  #43
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Doughty dove, clear as day.
Stop the trolling will you this will go on for ever

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03-06-2011, 02:42 PM
  #44
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Bluntly, I don't give a **** about that goal. The Kings played like ****. They were dominated for 2/3 of the game.

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03-06-2011, 03:06 PM
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We won't get any calls after what DL said about the guy who applied for the GM job here.

Also, I love how the Canucks fans are still watching our boards the day after the game. A word of advice guys, you guys won, just leave, we like to b**** a lot, that's all.

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03-06-2011, 03:12 PM
  #46
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And the Kings have been on the wrong side of two high-stick goals this season. This has been a bad season for refs overall, not just for the Kings and Canucks. We've all seen some really strange decisions this season by the on and off ice officials.
And yesterday's game that makes 3 pts that the Kings have lost by being on the wrong side of a call.

Go to OT / SO with Quick and it could be 5 or even all 6 pts - how would those additional pts look in the standings right now?

I agree with all that the Kings PP sucks like I haven't seen in a long, long time, and it's easy to say they'll get those points back, but if they miss the POs by 1 or 2 pts, we'll all be saying something different.

And in closing: how many points have the Kings got this year due to the refs calls / non-calls that favored them? I can't remember one.

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03-06-2011, 04:06 PM
  #47
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And yesterday's game that makes 3 pts that the Kings have lost by being on the wrong side of a call.

Go to OT / SO with Quick and it could be 5 or even all 6 pts - how would those additional pts look in the standings right now?

I agree with all that the Kings PP sucks like I haven't seen in a long, long time, and it's easy to say they'll get those points back, but if they miss the POs by 1 or 2 pts, we'll all be saying something different.

And in closing: how many points have the Kings got this year due to the refs calls / non-calls that favored them? I can't remember one.
Gah, this. I always want to say you have to play through the refs, and it will all even out in the end, but I have yet to see us on the 'good' end of one of these calls (or it's been so long I can't remember). If we DO miss the PO's by one or two points, I'm sure there are other things we can look to, but that just makes bad breaks like this tougher to stomach.

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03-06-2011, 04:07 PM
  #48
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Bluntly, I don't give a **** about that goal. The Kings played like ****. They were dominated for 2/3 of the game.
Basically, I mean I understand Murray and Quick's frustration but the team did not play well enough to win the game.

I used to coach football and I always told our kids that if the play comes down to one game, you've already lost, any given play or call or break could go either way so better make sure you don't let it come down to that.

Fans HATE hearing that, but it's the truth, in every single sport there is.

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03-06-2011, 05:38 PM
  #49
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The Kings were pretty much dominated yesterday but it all boils down to the fact that an atrocious non call led to the game winner. Simple as that really. Refs should apologize for being blind.

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03-06-2011, 11:23 PM
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I am a Canucks fan and I can see your guys frustration with this call. I disagree with the fact that the goaltender was interfered with, BUT Daniel did push Doughty. But let me bring a different perspective here. Doughty had been called for diving earlier in the game. Could this of shot his credibility with the refs for the game? A few of our players(EG. Burrows) developed a reputation for diving and seems to not get as many calls as he used to.
I don't think one play gives Doughty a diving reputation. to even compare him to Burrows is absurd.

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