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Andrei Kostitsyn thread (formerly 'Pierre Mcguire on team 990')

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Old
03-06-2011, 11:42 AM
  #426
Mr Rogers
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Originally Posted by x-bob View Post
Anyone else surprised that Kostitsyn is second in points on our team? For all the hate he's been getting you would think that his production would be awfull compared to other players on the team. Sure, his totals aren't impressive but I don't think he is the problem.
His production isn't half bad. Its just people expect him to be a PPG player night in night out because they see he's got tremendous talent.
The same way Kovalev was always seen as a guy who could score 100 point seasons.
Talent alone can take you so far.

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03-06-2011, 11:48 AM
  #427
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Good call. Gomez as 15 and Plek as 21.

And Gomez always has the best wingers (Gionta & mac pac) with him while Plek as Halpern.
Although, there have been times Gomez's wingers have been some of the bottom 6 guys also...anyhow, hopefully Gomez can get it going, we need him badly, and if his line can get going, we have a top 9 that is pretty balanced...

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03-06-2011, 03:13 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
I wonder what AK's numbers would have been if he did not have to play with Gomez a lot this season.
Playing the devils' advocate, one could also reverse that question...

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03-06-2011, 03:17 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Playing the devils' advocate, one could also reverse that question...
So you are asking what Gomez's numbers would be without Andrei on his line? Don't we already know the answer to that? They've been brutal. take a look at his first 20 games with Moen and Gionta on his line. Or the 10 games he played with Cammalleri and Moen.

Your dislike for Andrei is quite funny, though I'm not surprised because it goes all the way to 2008-2009.

He's second in points on our team for forwards despite getting significantly less ice time and despite not playing all of december or january without any PP time at all.

I like Andrei and I'm not afraid to say he is inconsistent, but the amount of bashing he gets here is extremely unwarranted. Why? Because most of it has to with the individual basher's expectations of Andrei rather than what he actually does on the ice.

He's a top 6 forward, period. He produces like one and provides the same consistency as one.

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03-06-2011, 03:28 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
So you are asking what Gomez's numbers would be without Andrei on his line? Don't we already know the answer to that? They've been brutal. take a look at his first 20 games with Moen and Gionta on his line. Or the 10 games he played with Cammalleri and Moen.

Your dislike for Andrei is quite funny, though I'm not surprised because it goes all the way to 2008-2009.

He's second in points on our team for forwards despite getting significantly less ice time and despite not playing all of december or january without any PP time at all.

I like Andrei and I'm not afraid to say he is inconsistent, but the amount of bashing he gets here is extremely unwarranted. Why? Because most of it has to with the individual basher's expectations of Andrei rather than what he actually does on the ice.

He's a top 6 forward, period. He produces like one and provides the same consistency as one.
If not liking a guy who goes through a 10 games hot streak and disappears for 30 games after, if not liking a guy who doesn't give the necessary effort game in, game out is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged.

Is this bias against AK? Absolutely not. I was saying the same about Mikey Ribeiro and other players like that in the past. If that labels me the bad guy, see if I care. I do know what I like and what I don't like and I'll take 10 Gionta's before one AK (we're talking work ethics of course). Sue me.

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03-06-2011, 03:44 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If not liking a guy who goes through a 10 games hot streak and disappears for 30 games after, if not liking a guy who doesn't give the necessary effort game in, game out is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged.

Is this bias against AK? Absolutely not. I was saying the same about Mikey Ribeiro and other players like that in the past. If that labels me the bad guy, see if I care. I do know what I like and what I don't like and I'll take 10 Gionta's before one AK (we're talking work ethics of course). Sue me.
It's so easy to say I'd take 10 Giontas before Andrei. I'd take 1 Crosby before I'd take 10 Gionta's, it doesn't mean squat.

Look around the league, top 6 forwards are extremely volatile in terms of their production. Andrei is no different.

Again, like I said and your post proves it. Disappointment with Andrei comes from a fans individual personal expectation of his play, rather than Andrei himself. He is what he is and he is what we have right now. Removing at this point does not make our team better in the slightest, so any talk of ridding him for whatever we can get is just plain stupidity especially after all that whining he's second on our team for points as a forward despite getting tossed around lineup, playing less minutes and getting 0 PP time all thoughout December and January.

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03-06-2011, 03:49 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If not liking a guy who goes through a 10 games hot streak and disappears for 30 games after, if not liking a guy who doesn't give the necessary effort game in, game out is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged.

Is this bias against AK? Absolutely not. I was saying the same about Mikey Ribeiro and other players like that in the past. If that labels me the bad guy, see if I care. I do know what I like and what I don't like and I'll take 10 Gionta's before one AK (we're talking work ethics of course). Sue me.
but who's gonna pass the puck



Even though he lost his confidence during the middle of the year, the effort was still there for the most part this season.

Let's not forget that when he plays with Plekanec, he is the only physical presence, playing against the best defencemen night in and night out. He's the one being asked to dig pucks in the corners, and we know that's not his strenght... Plus Plekanec is overrated as a passer, he'd rather shoot the puck, thus leading to less scoring opprtunities for him AND Cammalleri. We're asking him to be the passer instead of the shooter, which is ridiculous since he has one of the heaviest shots in the league. With Eller as his center he's clearly the designated shooter, leading to more scoring opportunities, thus a happier and more lively AK46.

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03-06-2011, 03:56 PM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Playing the devils' advocate, one could also reverse that question...

Not even close my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If not liking a guy who goes through a 10 games hot streak and disappears for 30 games after, if not liking a guy who doesn't give the necessary effort game in, game out is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged.

Is this bias against AK? Absolutely not. I was saying the same about Mikey Ribeiro and other players like that in the past. If that labels me the bad guy, see if I care. I do know what I like and what I don't like and I'll take 10 Gionta's before one AK (we're talking work ethics of course). Sue me.

Did you really compare our captain's work ethic with AK's?


Last edited by PyrettaBlaze: 03-06-2011 at 04:06 PM.
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Old
03-06-2011, 04:06 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Playing the devils' advocate, one could also reverse that question...
No offense Habsterix, but how can you even say that? Gomez played with virtually every player on the roster this season and he just never produced. Do you honestly believe that Gomez's numbers would've been better without Kostitsyn playing on his wing? Come on, now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If not liking a guy who goes through a 10 games hot streak and disappears for 30 games after, if not liking a guy who doesn't give the necessary effort game in, game out is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged.

Is this bias against AK? Absolutely not. I was saying the same about Mikey Ribeiro and other players like that in the past. If that labels me the bad guy, see if I care. I do know what I like and what I don't like and I'll take 10 Gionta's before one AK (we're talking work ethics of course). Sue me.
Everyone is allowed to like/dislike certain players, but at least use valid arguments if you're going to be so vocal about it. Gionta is one of the hardest working players in the league and comparing his work ethic to Kostitsyn's is beyond foolish.


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03-06-2011, 04:27 PM
  #435
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If 2nd liners produced consistently, they'd be producing like first liners.

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Old
03-06-2011, 05:18 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
It's so easy to say I'd take 10 Giontas before Andrei. I'd take 1 Crosby before I'd take 10 Gionta's, it doesn't mean squat.
You totally missed my point. Never mind. At least the two I'm quoting below got it.

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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post

Did you really compare our captain's work ethic with AK's?
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Everyone is allowed to like/dislike certain players, but at least use valid arguments if you're going to be so vocal about it. Gionta is one of the hardest working players in the league and comparing his work ethic to Kostitsyn's is beyond foolish.
Let me ask you both: What's wrong with asking for an effort like the Captain provides game in, game out?

I have a daughter who plays hockey and one who plays ringette. When they're done their game I ask them: «Did you leave it all on the ice? Did you do your best? Did you give your best effort? » I can't care less about the end result as long as the effort is there. When Gionta was in a long slump to start the season, I wasn't on his case why? Because he worked his ass off! Can you honestly look me in the eye and say that AK does that?

And PyrettaBlaze, if you think that it's because I dislike AK, you're mistaken. I dislike the lack of consistent effort, not the guy.

I'm sorry folks but I'll never, ever accept a half-ass effort. Never. If it makes me a bad guy, I truly don't care. I'm not here for a popularity contest.

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03-06-2011, 05:46 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by HiGGy View Post
His production isn't half bad. Its just people expect him to be a PPG player night in night out because they see he's got tremendous talent.
The same way Kovalev was always seen as a guy who could score 100 point seasons.
Talent alone can take you so far.
Personally, I'm not looking for pretty stats to be an AK fanboi. What I look for in him, or any player, is to be mentally and physically prepared to play NHL hockey, and to put in an honest effort every night. The issue I have with AK, is that to me, it appears he does this on far less nights than what I expect, as a fan.

The points are a secondary bonus. The beauty of this is, if he is consistent as per above, the points come.

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03-06-2011, 05:52 PM
  #438
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Penner:

Games played - 64
Goals - 22
Assists - 18
Points - 40
Hits - 70
+/- -13
TOI - 18:27

Kostitsyn:

Games played - 65
Goals - 16
Assists - 21
Points - 37
Hits - 115
+/- +6
TOI - 15:35

Both above players considered lazy yet people around here wanted to trade a first round pick and one of our top prospects for one and trade/waive the other one.

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Old
03-06-2011, 05:55 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
He's fine on a third line when all the checking isn't focused on him and he has a budding creative center with puck battle skills and a trench warrior with him and he's up agianst a Florida team that is without three main defensemen. I agree.

If he can climb the ladder from that to second line production, I'll be surprised. Eller isn't a career third liner, that's for sure.
Please, Eller has a bakers dozen for points on the season. AK is a beast when he's on his game, the two have good chemistry together, but AK's streak is all on him.

BTW offensively speaking AK is miles ahead of Eller, not to say that won't change down the road, but as of now It's not even close.

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03-06-2011, 05:56 PM
  #440
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AK has 37 pts this season... and only ONCE AK and Gomez had points together on the same goal.

AK and Gomez played on the same line for around 13-15 games, and AK had only 1 pt with him.

AK has 36 pts in ~50 games without Gomez, that's a 0.72pt per game. (60 pts for a 82 games season)

Gomez has 31 pts in ~49 games without AK, thats 0,63pt per game (52 pts in a full 82g season)

So yeah, AK wouldnt be that bad (60pts season!!) if he didn't play with Gomez.. and thats playing on the 1,2,3,4 line and limited PP.

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03-06-2011, 05:56 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Penner:

Games played - 64
Goals - 22
Assists - 18
Points - 40
Hits - 70
+/- -13
TOI - 18:27

Kostitsyn:

Games played - 65
Goals - 16
Assists - 21
Points - 37
Hits - 115
+/- +6
TOI - 15:35

Both above players considered lazy yet people around here wanted to trade a first round pick and one of our top prospects for one and trade/waive the other one.
Neither players are lazy.

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03-06-2011, 06:45 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
And PyrettaBlaze, if you think that it's because I dislike AK, you're mistaken. I dislike the lack of consistent effort, not the guy.
And you are on his thread, bashing him now for his lack of effort when he's on a good streak of 8 pts in 6 games.

You clearly dislike the guy, just admit it. The guy is doing so well, and all you have to say is that you would take Gionta, one of the hardest working guy in the league, over AK. Yeah ok...

You either don't like him or still bitter because of you feel like Latendresse hasn't have the same chance as AK to play on the top 6.

And btw, I don't think AK's "problem" this season is his lack of consistency in his effort, but consistency in his play in general. Of couse, if you compared his effort with Plekanec or Gionta, he's not even close to them, but I don't think guys like Cammy or Pouliot or Gomez has given a more consistent amount of effort than AK.

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03-06-2011, 07:06 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
And you are on his thread, bashing him now for his lack of effort when he's on a good streak of 8 pts in 6 games.

You clearly dislike the guy, just admit it. The guy is doing so well, and all you have to say is that you would take Gionta, one of the hardest working guy in the league, over AK. Yeah ok...

You either don't like him or still bitter because of you feel like Latendresse hasn't have the same chance as AK to play on the top 6.
And btw, I don't think AK's "problem" this season is his lack of consistency in his effort, but consistency in his play in general. Of couse, if you compared his effort with Plekanec or Gionta, he's not even close to them, but I don't think guys like Cammy or Pouliot or Gomez has given a more consistent amount of effort than AK.
You know what's funny about the Latendresse part. Asterix liked Latendresse even though Lats was guilty of the same effort problem that he claims to be at the root of his dislike for Andrei Kostitsyn.

Latendresse's effort was just as poor if not poorer than Andrei's(though I don't Andrei's problems are associated with effort, more with confidence). Yet Asterix is ready to defend him saying that Lats never got top 6 time, yet bashes Andrei despite being tossed around the lineup, not getting PP time for two months and generally, not playing heavy minutes. Yet despite all this he sits second in our team in points for a forward.

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03-06-2011, 07:08 PM
  #444
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Ak works a lot harder than people have been giving him credit for, he just appears lazy because he shows very little emotion on the ice and has the occasional giveaway... People used to question Price in the same type of way, they said he never showed emotions so he never cared.

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03-06-2011, 07:48 PM
  #445
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And you are on his thread, bashing him now for his lack of effort when he's on a good streak of 8 pts in 6 games.
Think what you want. I'm not bashing AK, you just have a very, very thin skin and an even narrower mind, that's all. Again (but you'll ignore that one more time I know), I was 100% behind him to start the season, until he went in hibernation for 30-40 games.

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You know what's funny about the Latendresse part. Asterix liked Latendresse even though Lats was guilty of the same effort problem that he claims to be at the root of his dislike for Andrei Kostitsyn.
For the record, I didn't like Latendresse so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Oh wait I know... because I've said that AK got more chances than Latendresse, it means that I like him. Okay I got it...


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03-06-2011, 07:55 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post

For the record, I didn't like Latendresse so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Oh wait I know... because I've said that AK got more chances than Latendresse, it means that I like him. Okay I got it...
Well then, if you didn't like Latendresse and you were truly wondering why AK got more icetime than he did, then the answer is very obvious. Andrei simply worked harder than Latendresse and with a coach like Martin who is very strict when it comes to effort on the ice, then it is quite apparent that Andrei is a harder worker than you give him credit for(well at least a harder worker than Latendresse).

Also, Andrei is not as lazy as everyone claims him to be and if he is lazy, then he is no lazier than Pouliot, Cammalleri or Gomez for that matter. Yet, despite the lack of effort from these aforementioned players, Andrei still gets the lion share of the blame. I truly believe that this blame is caused by(from reading 1000s of posts on the subject) Andrei failing to meet people's personal expectations of his production. When he doesn't meet these expectations he's labled as lazy and heartless. However, all those who view Andrei as just a top 6 forward, will not say he is lazy, but will say he, like other top 6 forwards around the league who are not producing, is on a cold-streak and that it is a confidence issue.

Watching Andrei for 5 years now and seeing him improve the aspects of the games which he was extremely poor at(and now has arrived at a point which they are adequate), I can say with confidence that Andrei is not a lazy heartless player, but one that cares, but is very fragile mentally.

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03-06-2011, 08:32 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I truly believe that this blame is caused by(from reading 1000s of posts on the subject) Andrei failing to meet people's personal expectations of his production.
I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but I can assure you that it's not the case as far as I'm concerned. Unless of course you know more about my intentions than I do.

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03-06-2011, 08:35 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I was 100% behind him to start the season, until he went in hibernation for 30-40 games.

Oh yeah, I forgot, when AK is not playing well, its because he doesn't work or in hibernation right? AK never struggles right? He just stop working and play like an lazy ass huh?

Like I said earlier in this thread, AK played around 15 games on the same line as Gomez this season, and he got 1 pt out of it.

If you take look at Andrei's slump, a good amount of these games, he was playing with Gomez.

He played 50 games, without Gomez and got 36 pts.

So tell me, do you think he would be better if he never had play with Gomez. And we all know AK, when he's off, everything is off, his timing, his decision making, his balance, his stickhandling etc..

And lets not forget that the guy even took the initiative to go to the coach and ask for explanation of what he should do. At least, it shows that the guy does care instead of hibernating no?

Without playing with Gomez, he would probably at the 40 pt mark by now and end the season with 50-52 pts, which is pretty good for AK and exactly what we are expecting from him.

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03-06-2011, 09:21 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If not liking a guy who goes through a 10 games hot streak and disappears for 30 games after, if not liking a guy who doesn't give the necessary effort game in, game out is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged.

Is this bias against AK? Absolutely not. I was saying the same about Mikey Ribeiro and other players like that in the past. If that labels me the bad guy, see if I care. I do know what I like and what I don't like and I'll take 10 Gionta's before one AK (we're talking work ethics of course). Sue me.
Haven't Gionta and Kostitsyn scored points in approximately the same number of games this year? If that is the case, it is okay for some guys to be inconsistent and not for others.

Speaking of work ethics, where would Kostitsyn rank in your eyes among the group of Kostitsyn, Gionta and Gomez. It's always easy to compare a guy unfavorably with one of the hardest workers on the team but what about against someone who represents more of the average work ethic on the team.

It seems that in your mind Kostitsyn could lead the team in goals, assists, shots, blocked shots, shooting percentage, hits, plus/minus and almost every other stat but others would always be superior because of work ethic. BTW, he is close to leading the team in many of those categories.

Kosty is not a $5 million, $6 million or $7 million player yet many here accuse of him of being a bum because he is not playing like the top echelon players. I say we are getting fair value for the guy.

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03-06-2011, 09:25 PM
  #450
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I don't know how Latendresse (or Latenesse) got into the discussion but he was one Hab I couldn't stand. He reminded me of someone who always forgets to put out the garbage the night before the trash collection but remembers after the truck pulls away the following morning.

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