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Chris Kreider (Broken Jaw; Out 4-6 Weeks)

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Old
03-07-2011, 05:54 AM
  #76
Jxmarts
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Originally Posted by Capitain Midnight View Post
Sorry this is a classic! Moot not mute...

Anyway, I think CK comes out this year and the time is just right. Come play in the A, and get called up or come ready to go in 2012. Timing is everything...no sense in him staying in college really.
My bad... I can't believe I wrote that. Thanks!

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03-07-2011, 07:36 AM
  #77
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Kreider should talk to Ben Smith

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Ben hates life in the AHL. Says his day is full of hockey. he is either practicing, playing or traveling to it. He says he misses BC and the world it opens up for a kid. He misses going to class, doing homework, debating topics and learning. He lived a diverse life at BC and now it is one dimensional. He is unhappy.
http://bostoncollege.rivals.com/show...d=1007&style=2

Kreider should talk to his buddy Stepan. Ask him about life in the NHL. Even if Kreider goes to the AHL,he won't be there very long. He can ask McDonagh about that. Just like Wisconsin the school, BC the school is not going anywhere. They can finish their school work at a later date.

Ben Smith is not a National Hockey League player. He is a professional hockey player. What did he expect to do playing pro hockey? Practice. Travel. Play games. Your job is to play hockey. He gets paid $65,000 to play in the AHL. He got $160,000 as a signing bonus. He was a 5th round pick. Did he expect to play in the NHL this season? He got into 3 NHL games this season. 21 points in 50 AHL games.

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03-07-2011, 08:41 AM
  #78
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I think we will have a hole to fill because somebody else is going to offer Boyle more money and a chance to play on another team's top 2 lines . That will open a spot up for Kreider and free up the cash for Cally and Dubie who are not going to sign for nothing . Most college kids will always take the money first...put yourself in that position and think about it .

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03-07-2011, 08:43 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
I think we will have a hole to fill because somebody else is going to offer Boyle more money and a chance to play on another team's top 2 lines . That will open a spot up for Kreider and free up the cash for Cally and Dubie who are not going to sign for nothing . Most college kids will always take the money first...put yourself in that position and think about it .
Boyle is a RFA. Teams aren't going to give big money and then compensation for a guy with one good season under his belt.

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03-07-2011, 08:47 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
BC forum

Kreider should talk to Ben Smith



http://bostoncollege.rivals.com/show...d=1007&style=2

Kreider should talk to his buddy Stepan. Ask him about life in the NHL. Even if Kreider goes to the AHL,he won't be there very long. He can ask McDonagh about that. Just like Wisconsin the school, BC the school is not going anywhere. They can finish their school work at a later date.

Ben Smith is not a National Hockey League player. He is a professional hockey player. What did he expect to do playing pro hockey? Practice. Travel. Play games. Your job is to play hockey. He gets paid $65,000 to play in the AHL. He got $160,000 as a signing bonus. He was a 5th round pick. Did he expect to play in the NHL this season? He got into 3 NHL games this season. 21 points in 50 AHL games.
I can certainly understand being kind of unhappy with playing in the AHL over college...it probably really isn't as fun. However, if you have designs on being a pro hockey player and making that your living, I would think you understand that the AHL is a sometimes necessary stepping stone, and if you pine for college and are tired of always playing hockey, then maybe you're not cut out to be a pro

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03-07-2011, 09:40 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
BC forum

Kreider should talk to Ben Smith



http://bostoncollege.rivals.com/show...d=1007&style=2

Kreider should talk to his buddy Stepan. Ask him about life in the NHL. Even if Kreider goes to the AHL,he won't be there very long. He can ask McDonagh about that. Just like Wisconsin the school, BC the school is not going anywhere. They can finish their school work at a later date.

Ben Smith is not a National Hockey League player. He is a professional hockey player. What did he expect to do playing pro hockey? Practice. Travel. Play games. Your job is to play hockey. He gets paid $65,000 to play in the AHL. He got $160,000 as a signing bonus. He was a 5th round pick. Did he expect to play in the NHL this season? He got into 3 NHL games this season. 21 points in 50 AHL games.
I was going to say that he probably could make more with his degree than the $65k to play in the AHL..... then I noticed he had a history degree. Not to knock anyone with a history degree, but you need graduate work on top of that degree to get a decent-paying job.

Anyways, if he's so unhappy in the AHL, maybe he should just quit and go to graduate school. I can't see someone having the necessary work ethic to excel and make it to the NHL if they feel that way about playing hockey for a living.

Then again, this sounds like an extremely exaggerated statement coming from a BC student. Similar things were coming from Wisconsin when Stepan and McDonagh were nearing the end of their college seasons. They just don't want their players leaving early, even if it's in the players best interest.

I have no doubt that once Kreider gets a taste of the organization, he'll do the smart thing and sign a contract. He has a real chance to make the big club out of camp with our lack of high-end talent. Even if he doesn't make it, he'll know just from seeing the developments with Stepan and McDonagh that the Rangers are committed to giving young players a chance. Heck, we traded Rozsival to open a permanent slot for McDonagh. If that's not proof enough, I don't know what is.

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03-07-2011, 01:07 PM
  #82
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My bad... I can't believe I wrote that. Thanks!
Ha. It really wasn't for you, but for our younger "pwmed" posters. Sometimes they really don't know the difference.

I agree about the ppg issue and that his point total should be higher. But I also think that scouts see a type of game translating to the bigger stage. Like going to a small school and dominating vs going to a top program and playing better competition can mean no difference. It is how your game translates. Plus what makes the college kids a little bit better is the emphasis on D rather than putting up the points. That makes it easier for them to understand their responsibilities at a hight level.

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03-07-2011, 03:10 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I can certainly understand being kind of unhappy with playing in the AHL over college...it probably really isn't as fun. However, if you have designs on being a pro hockey player and making that your living, I would think you understand that the AHL is a sometimes necessary stepping stone, and if you pine for college and are tired of always playing hockey, then maybe you're not cut out to be a pro
This is no different from anyone who leaves / graduates from college and gets hit in the face by the real world.

I know 2 years out of college etc I was longing for the days of going to class (ya right, more like drinking beers at noon on a Wednesday and girl watching). It is what every college grad goes through for the most part

I think Krieder comes out of college. He is right at that point in a college career when you start thinking about getting the hell out of school. College can get old really fast, add to that he knows he has BIG $$$ waiting for him as long as he doesn't get badly hurt.

Anyone who says the $$$ isn't a factor is kidding themselves. You get hurt and you're a cubicle drone like the masses. You come out and sign and you can almost never work a day. he will make more money turning pro then most people will see in their lifetime guaranteed. If he were my kid he would be turning pro.

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Old
03-07-2011, 06:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Capitain Midnight View Post
I agree about the ppg issue and that his point total should be higher. But I also think that scouts see a type of game translating to the bigger stage. Like going to a small school and dominating vs going to a top program and playing better competition can mean no difference. It is how your game translates. Plus what makes the college kids a little bit better is the emphasis on D rather than putting up the points. That makes it easier for them to understand their responsibilities at a hight level.
Your points are all valid.

I'm not anti-Kreider at all. My concern is that we Ranger fans sometimes expect too much too soon from our prospects. The fact that Kreider is not yet a prolific scorer in college suggests to me that we should not expect him to have 30 goals on our top line a year from now. Much like Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan, et al., it'll take Kreider a few years to mature into the player (goal scorer) he can become.

It's true that Stepan and McDonagh have stepped in as rookies in prominent roles for the Rangers. But unlike Kreider, Stepan was already prolific as a playmaker in college. And McDonagh's job does not require him to put pucks in the net. I think Kreider may have to work on his craft a bit longer than those two.

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03-10-2011, 03:40 PM
  #85
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Boston Herald today

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BC sophomore left winger Chris Kreider, who suffered a broken jaw when struck by a puck during the opening game of last weekend’s home-and-home series with UNH, underwent surgery yesterday. York said doctors are optimistic the Boxford native could return for the NCAA regionals.
http://bostonherald.com/sports/colle...akes_on_umass/

Regionals start two weeks from tomorrow.


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03-10-2011, 03:51 PM
  #86
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CK is going to be back in two weeks? Wow. That's awesome! I was worried this would linger for a while.

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03-10-2011, 03:57 PM
  #87
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I think the fact that he wears a full face-shield in the NCAA's helps him come back quicker. Although I dont know how he will react to any physical play after returning and still being in some pain.

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03-10-2011, 04:32 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
I remember a few years ago (2004), the Finnish line with Korpikoski dominated in the WJC. I was thrilled when the Rangers took him, and I was bummed they took Montoya instead of one of his linemates (Tukonen). The third linemate (Nokaleinen) was picked by the Isles. All 3 of them were essentially busts. I don't think a short series is the best indicator of success in the NHL.

I would be very happy to stand corrected. I am simply asking for one or more examples where a college player who did not score a point per game as a sophomore went on to the NHL and was productive as a top 6 forward the next season. I could be wrong, but I do not recall a single such example in the 40 years I've been watching the NHL.

I'm not necessarily saying Kreider will be a bust. He's very young, and he has tools. But at this point in their development, I think Christian Thomas or even Evgeny Grachev are ahead of Kreider -- Thomas because he has a natural scorer's touch, and Grachev because he's played pro for 2 years.

I just am skeptical as to whether Kreider will be the first player in let's say the last 30 NHL seasons to make such a leap. If he makes it as a top 6 forward for the Rangers, it won't be next year.
But the game is waaaay different from 30 years ago. And this team is built so a rookie could easily come in and spend at least some top 6 time as a forward like Step, Artie, MZA all have at some point (AA last year obviously). I think Kreider, Step Zuke is the line we will see.

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03-10-2011, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
Your points are all valid.

I'm not anti-Kreider at all. My concern is that we Ranger fans sometimes expect too much too soon from our prospects. The fact that Kreider is not yet a prolific scorer in college suggests to me that we should not expect him to have 30 goals on our top line a year from now. Much like Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan, et al., it'll take Kreider a few years to mature into the player (goal scorer) he can become.

It's true that Stepan and McDonagh have stepped in as rookies in prominent roles for the Rangers. But unlike Kreider, Stepan was already prolific as a playmaker in college. And McDonagh's job does not require him to put pucks in the net. I think Kreider may have to work on his craft a bit longer than those two.
If Kreider's game translates to the NHL level and he keeps a similar pace, like Derek Stepan who had 21 goals in 81 NCAA games, Kreider, who has 26 goals in 69 games, would project to a 30-31 goal scorer.

Maybe Stepan was not prolific as a goal scorer, but he was able to keep up the same pace in the NHL. I dont see any reason why Kreider couldnt keep a similar pace in the NHL.

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03-10-2011, 05:18 PM
  #90
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Boston Herald today



http://bostonherald.com/sports/colle...akes_on_umass/

Regionals start two weeks from tomorrow.

Great news. Thanks.


Last edited by broadwayblue: 03-10-2011 at 05:25 PM.
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03-10-2011, 08:38 PM
  #91
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If Kreider's game translates to the NHL level and he keeps a similar pace, like Derek Stepan who had 21 goals in 81 NCAA games, Kreider, who has 26 goals in 69 games, would project to a 30-31 goal scorer.

Maybe Stepan was not prolific as a goal scorer, but he was able to keep up the same pace in the NHL. I dont see any reason why Kreider couldnt keep a similar pace in the NHL.
Stepan had 12 goals + 42 assists (54 points) in 41 games as a sophomore, which made him one of the most prolific scorers in the nation. He was more of a playmaker than a goal scorer that season, but he was clearly one of the more dominant offensive players in college hockey. It's not that much of a reach to project someone who has dominated like Stepan to be productive the following season in the NHL. It has been known to happen.

Kreider had 11 goals + 12 assists (23 points) in 31 games as a sophomore before his injury. Those are pedestrian numbers. You can probably find 5 or 6 players on every college team who have at least those kind of stats. It would be almost unprecedented in NHL history that a player with that level of production has stepped into the NHL and scored 30 goals the following season. You just never see that.

Kreider is obviously is a talented kid, but I'm worried that our expectations of him are too high. He's not a dominant scorer yet. Players with his kind of production, who are projected as goal scorers but who haven't consistently dominated their leagues, usually need a few years in the minors before they reach their potential in the NHL. I don't want to rush him and set him back if he's not ready.

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03-10-2011, 10:57 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
Stepan had 12 goals + 42 assists (54 points) in 41 games as a sophomore, which made him one of the most prolific scorers in the nation. He was more of a playmaker than a goal scorer that season, but he was clearly one of the more dominant offensive players in college hockey. It's not that much of a reach to project someone who has dominated like Stepan to be productive the following season in the NHL. It has been known to happen.

Kreider had 11 goals + 12 assists (23 points) in 31 games as a sophomore before his injury. Those are pedestrian numbers. You can probably find 5 or 6 players on every college team who have at least those kind of stats. It would be almost unprecedented in NHL history that a player with that level of production has stepped into the NHL and scored 30 goals the following season. You just never see that.

Kreider is obviously is a talented kid, but I'm worried that our expectations of him are too high. He's not a dominant scorer yet. Players with his kind of production, who are projected as goal scorers but who haven't consistently dominated their leagues, usually need a few years in the minors before they reach their potential in the NHL. I don't want to rush him and set him back if he's not ready.
Its impossible to tell whether Kreider will have immediate success at the NHL level. This whole thing is hypothetical. But you really cant say that Stepan was a prolific goal scorer at the NCAA level. He actually had fewer GPG than Kreider. What reasoning or logic do you have for saying that Stepan can score goals at the same rate he did in college, but Kreider can not? Its unfair.

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03-10-2011, 11:05 PM
  #93
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I really hope they don't rush him back. I'd rather he sit out the rest of the year than risk further injury.

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03-11-2011, 01:16 AM
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Physically he should be ready for the NHL, mentally is he ready for the adjustment to the NHL, not sure. I would like to see how he does against players that are just as fast and just as big with alot more experience in camp before commenting. The NHL is still a production league first and foremost and the AHL is still the instructional league.

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03-11-2011, 04:56 AM
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Its impossible to tell whether Kreider will have immediate success at the NHL level. This whole thing is hypothetical. But you really cant say that Stepan was a prolific goal scorer at the NCAA level. He actually had fewer GPG than Kreider. What reasoning or logic do you have for saying that Stepan can score goals at the same rate he did in college, but Kreider can not? Its unfair.
I agree with you it's all hypothetical. We're projecting and nobody knows for sure.

Stepan's assist totals last year were tied for the most in Division I college hockey. His overall points per game were tied for 9th. As a sophomore playing for a top team, those stats indicate that Stepan was dominating his peers and that he was ready for the next level. His role was more of a playmaker than a goal scorer in college, but he undeniably was playing at elite level for his age.

Nevertheless, I think it would've been foolhardy for the Rangers to expect Stepan to step right in and produce right away. They had to be prepared that he'd need some time in the minors because producing in the NHL is never a given. It worked out nicely this time, but it doesn't always.

Kreider has had some moments of brillance, most notably his performance in the WJC, but his overall production has been just average. Nothing about his production has shown consistent dominance over his peers. If he isn't dominating college kids, as Stepan did last year, it can't be a given that he plays in the NHL next year as a top 6 forward and scores 20 or 30 goals. There are dozens of players in college hockey with similar production to Kreider, and it's unlikely any of them will be top scoring forwards in the NHL next year.

Kreider will be 20 years old next season. There's plenty of time for him to develop his skills. I just don't expect it to happen next year.

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03-11-2011, 05:24 AM
  #96
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I just am skeptical as to whether Kreider will be the first player in let's say the last 30 NHL seasons to make such a leap. If he makes it as a top 6 forward for the Rangers, it won't be next year.


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But the game is waaaay different from 30 years ago. And this team is built so a rookie could easily come in and spend at least some top 6 time as a forward like Step, Artie, MZA all have at some point (AA last year obviously). I think Kreider, Step Zuke is the line we will see.


Step is the only one who stepped in without pro experience and produced. My argument is that Step is different because he dominated his peers at the college level consistently for at least a whole season (see my post just above this one). Even with Step there was no guarantee. It happens, but it's rare.

Artie (in the AHL) and MZA (in Europe) needed to play as pros before they were ready for the NHL. That's how it is with most young scoring forwards unless they've clearly shown they are already dominant at their level. I expect the Kreider will need some seasoning too.

When I asked for examples from the last 30 years, to prove me wrong, I wasn't asking for examples from 30 years ago. I was asking for examples within the last 30 years. So if there's a player who made the kind of jump most people here expect Kreider to make more recently, then all the better.

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03-11-2011, 10:03 AM
  #97
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Stat surfing doesn't make a point.

Kreider has a physical package that most players don't have. And he was going to improve his production from the year prior before he broke his jaw.

And he improved his overall game.

He's going pro next year, he will be in the NHL next year. And he will not be relegated to 3rd-4th line duties, either.

Kreider's production from a defensive role, not on the top line, is not an issue. Things work differently at BC then they do at Wisconsin. Stepan was afforded the opportunity to be a go-to guy. Atkinson, a Senior, is the go-to guy at BC. At BC seniority matters.

Kreider was invited to play for the men's USA team at the World Championship at age 18. How many 2009 draftees were invited to play in that tournament?

He was a PPG at the WJC and MVP of the Bronze Medal game. MVP at the Bean Pot. Scored countless big goals both last year including a big goal in the Gold Medal game at the WJC last year, more down the stretch last year, and still yet more this year in big game situations.

But, let's harp on the fact he doesn't have overwhelming, "dominating" stats.

His stats are not "pedestrian". 20+ points in an NCAA season is not bad, at all, from a freshman on a stacked National Championship team coming out of prep HS. And still yet, not bad at all from a sophomore playing more of a two way roll again on a stacked National Championship caliber team.

Of the players drafted in 2009, that are at the NCAA level, how are they doing? 2010 draftees? 2011 draft eligible players?

Stat surfing is not helping make any point. Comparing stats to other guys in different years also, does not help make any point. Each situation is unique.

The progress in his overall game since being drafted is what matters.

EDITED: took all unneccessary stuff out.


Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 03-11-2011 at 03:29 PM.
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03-11-2011, 11:39 AM
  #98
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I think the fact that he wears a full face-shield in the NCAA's helps him come back quicker. Although I dont know how he will react to any physical play after returning and still being in some pain.
It didn't keep him from getting hurt the first time.

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03-11-2011, 12:24 PM
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No one is safe from injuries this year.

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03-11-2011, 12:31 PM
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It's such a small sample but the WJC really relieves me from Kreider's NCAA stats. Jason Zucker is dominating the WCHA, but he was a non factor in the WJC compared to Kreider, who was better in every aspect. Everyone jumped on board the Charlie Coyle wagon when he dominated 3 straight games against gutter teams. Kreider was far and away USA's best forward in the games against good competition.

His physical package, defensive awareness, speed and shot (both of which are top notch, his shot is very underrated, it's professional in every way) will help him make the transition to the AHL/NHL way easier then most.

He was the 18th best prospect on THN, clearly scouts see more then his stats when they watch him play.

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