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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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Old
03-06-2011, 04:08 PM
  #201
MorrisWanchuk
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
With Gilroy in the lineup this season we are 25-25

With Eminger we are 30-24
not statistically significant

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Old
03-06-2011, 04:13 PM
  #202
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I'm not a Torts fan, but it's pretty much nonsense to fire him when he has formed one of the hardest working teams in the league.

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03-06-2011, 04:17 PM
  #203
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Gilroy looked good again

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Old
03-06-2011, 05:07 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by MorrisWanchuk View Post
not statistically significant
Whether or not you think Gilroy has had any direct effect on those results is one thing, but actually stating that 10 points in the standings isn't statistically significant is pretty hilarious.

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Old
03-07-2011, 06:34 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Can't believe you really believe that. Sure not having Gaborik for almost half the season has helped. Losing Dubi and Cally for long stretches certainly made the team better. Heck, I personally thought that Fedetenko's injury was really a blessing in disguise, right?

This team has battled injuries from day 1 like no other team in the NHL. Add to that all the youth on the team and thats a combination that would pose problems for any coach. To pretend that injuries and inexperience haven't had a negative impact on this teams play this season is shortsighted.
Who are the long term injuries that have decimated this team?

Gaborik? Was an absolute pig while in uniform this year by all accounts.

Drury?

Prospal had a minor impact.

Who are the impact imjuries?

No other teams have faced injuries like the Rangers!? Really?

I bet Pittsburgh fans might disagree. Islanders fans, too. Some others, also.

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03-07-2011, 06:36 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by ragshockey88 View Post
ur joking right?? refer to the post above, everything was said correctly there. add tortorella's great way of handling the youth. i suppose that biron being injured and the team having to lean heavily on lundqvist down the stretch wont have any effect either
Ooh. The Rangers lost their backup goaltender for 20 games. How decimating.

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Old
03-07-2011, 07:28 AM
  #207
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Gilroy looked good again
Compared to what? Gilroy on most nights?

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03-07-2011, 07:56 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Who are the long term injuries that have decimated this team?

Gaborik? Was an absolute pig while in uniform this year by all accounts.

Drury?

Prospal had a minor impact.

Who are the impact imjuries?

No other teams have faced injuries like the Rangers!? Really?

I bet Pittsburgh fans might disagree. Islanders fans, too. Some others, also.
Is it possible that the shoulder injury Gaborik suffered has impacted him all season and thats why he's not playing well? Shoulder injuries can linger for months especially for a guy who shoots the puck like Gaborik does. Prospal was a big part of the team last year. How can you honestly say his missing over half the season had a minor impact on the team? How about Cally's and Dubi's injuries. They each missed over a month. That had no impact on the team? Lastly you ignore Fedetenko's injury. That also had a huge impact.

Let's go to the rest of your response. The difference between whats happened in Pittsburgh and NY is that from day 1 we've been battling injuries. The Penguins injuries, other than Staal, didn't start till around the All Star break. By the way since then they've been a .500 hockey club. According to you they probably should look to fire the coach, right?

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Old
03-07-2011, 09:31 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Who are the long term injuries that have decimated this team?

Gaborik? Was an absolute pig while in uniform this year by all accounts.

Drury?

Prospal had a minor impact.

Who are the impact imjuries?

No other teams have faced injuries like the Rangers!? Really?

I bet Pittsburgh fans might disagree. Islanders fans, too. Some others, also.
I can't tell if you're 100% serious but here goes:

Dubinsky----5 games missed
Callahan----20 games missed
Gaborik----20 games missed
Girardi----2 games missed
Staal----3 games missed
Fedotenko----16 games missed
Christensen----17 games missed
Frolov----24(and counting) games missed
Rozsival----# I cant find
Prospal----53 games missed
Drury----44(and counting) games missed
Boogaard----42(and counting) games missed
Biron----2(and counting) games missed

The Rangers at some points were missing their top-2 scorers from last season(Prospal and Gaborik) along with Christensen which made up their top-line for most of last season.

They were missing Dubinsky and Callahan for significant chunks.

They have been missing Drury for pretty much the entire season and while everyone hates him, he is still a useful player and their captain.

Frolov was borught in to help with the secondary scoring, he has been out for most of the season and is not coming back.

Rozsival missed a chunk of games which worked out well as McDonagh was allowed to get some games and impress. Either way, he was a top-4 defenseman out.

Fedotenko was playing VERY well before he went out with his broken wrist with Boyle and Prust. 16 games is just over a month of hockey.

Dubinsky had a stress fracture which was bothering him for a while before sitting out games.

On top of all of that, the team can't practice with their normal teammates and those players are not allowed to train correctly while healing. The merry-go-round of players from Hartford where this team was pretty much only playing 3 lines and 2-4 defensemen at times is no easy task for any team.

Injuries happen to every team. That is true. But besides maybe Pittsburgh, I challenge you to find a team that has lost as many man-games to injury as the Rangers.

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Old
03-07-2011, 11:06 AM
  #210
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I read the first page of posts and was left with nothing more than the urge to perform a facepalm for the ages.

This team, before the beginning of the season, was slated at placing between 10-13th in the conference. The Rangers come out all pistons firing and suddenly it's Cup or bust with the fans.

We've lost so many players to injury over the course of this season that it's foolish to believe that we're making a legitimate run at the Cup. If we squeak into the playoffs, sure, we might make some waves, but don't go planning the Cup parade.

You cannot blame Torts for our home record. You cannot blame Torts for Gaborik's down season. You cannot blame him for Frolov, Rozsival, or Drury. You can, however, blame Torts for line jugging, the lack of movement on the PP, the lack of point shots, and the mishandling of MDZ.

In retrospect, Torts turned Boyle into a 20 goal scorer, is giving our core the ice time to develop rapidly, and is letting Dubinsky, Callahan, and Staal lead the way for the future.

To all the clueless fans: you cannot ask for the infusion of youth, then whine when we might miss the playoffs as a result of the youth infusion.

Sather probably had the second best deals before the trade deadline (Rozy for Wolski, McCabe for Kennedy + 3rd round pick), and did so by not giving away anything significant (first round picks, A-B prospects, et cetera). Who cares that he didn't grab Richards or Kaberle? He would have had to give up multiple picks and our top prospects, which is unacceptable (since either player would not make us instant Cup contenders).

In closing, Torts deserves, at the bare minimum, one more year. He has done admirably (other than MDZ) considering the 300+ man games lost to injury and the lack of elite talent (other than Gaborik, but he's having a down year). Our second defensive pairing consists of rookies, and our top scorer is Brian MFing Boyle. The team as a whole has bought into his system, and the results are evident. When we lose it's by one goal, when we win it's in convincing fashion. The team is competing (no Reddens mailing it in every night), and has the potential to make some waves in the playoffs, providing valuable experience to our youth, but should we not make the playoffs it's not the end of the world (we will still have exceeded the realistic expectations at the start of the season, not the farcical one produced as a result of our hot start prior to injuries).

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Old
03-07-2011, 11:34 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Compared to what? Gilroy on most nights?
He's been serviceable in managed minutes. Not sure that's what people want to hear about a NHL d-man, but it's the truth. He's looked fine.

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Old
03-07-2011, 11:41 AM
  #212
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this is the hardest working rangers team i can remember seeing on the ice (im 24)

also the youngest and most over-achiving

yeah, fire the coach


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Old
03-07-2011, 11:58 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Who are the long term injuries that have decimated this team?

Gaborik? Was an absolute pig while in uniform this year by all accounts.

Drury?

Prospal had a minor impact.

Who are the impact imjuries?

No other teams have faced injuries like the Rangers!? Really?

I bet Pittsburgh fans might disagree. Islanders fans, too. Some others, also.
You can say that gaborik hasn't been the Gaborik we all come to expect game in and game out, but you need to realize this. When Gaborik is in the lineup, he demands the attention of other teams top shutdown defenseman. Therefore that enables our other lines, such as last night with Cally-Anisimov-Dubi and Zucc-Step-Wolski to score and dominate the lesser defensive defenseman.

A lot of people seem to forget the importance of having a guy like Gaborik in the lineup regardless of how well he is performing. When teams sleep on him they risk the chance of him breaking loose on them. If we were to get him a COMPATIBLE centerman who can also dominate games, then you'd see what im talking about taken to another level.

Tortorella will not be let go regardless if we make the playoffs or not. He is sharing the team concept that Sather and the higher ups want to play towards. Keep atleast being on the brink of making the playoffs until we are truly reloaded with our youth. Tortorella has shown that he will let the young players play through their struggles to learn how to deal with it. MDZ is Case #1 at that. At some point Torts needed to scratch him and send him down because he just wasnt working through his struggles the way Anisimov has this year. I know a poster above said he mishandled Del Zotto, yet i honestly dont see that being the case. I heard a rumor that the reason why Del Zotto was struggling was because his head wasnt on hockey. 20 year old professional hockey player with money living in New York City, tell me where your head would be at? thought so..... Rangers caught onto his act and realized he needed to be sent down so he learned that he needed to get his act together.

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Old
03-07-2011, 12:23 PM
  #214
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He's been serviceable in managed minutes. Not sure that's what people want to hear about a NHL d-man, but it's the truth. He's looked fine.
I guess, I question the idea that he's an NHL defenseman.

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Old
03-07-2011, 12:29 PM
  #215
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I guess, I question the idea that he's an NHL defenseman.
As a 2nd year pro, he's fine. I don't know what some of you are expecting, but Gilroy has been a fairly solid 6th guy.

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03-07-2011, 12:35 PM
  #216
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As a 2nd year pro, he's fine. I don't know what some of you are expecting, but Gilroy has been a fairly solid 6th guy.
I was expecting more than a fairly solid #6 guy.

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Old
03-07-2011, 12:40 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
With Gilroy in the lineup this season we are 25-25

With Eminger we are 30-24
We are 38-12 when 2500+ hot dogs are sold.

We are 23-40 when under 2500 hot dogs are sold.

eat more hot dogs people.

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Old
03-07-2011, 12:56 PM
  #218
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As a 2nd year pro, he's fine. I don't know what some of you are expecting, but Gilroy has been a fairly solid 6th guy.
Hes 27 years old, so the "2nd year pro" thing has to be taken with a grain of salt as far as Im concerned.

Hes gotten better to the point where it looks like he maybe can be a consistent NHL #6 guy. But when it comes to expectations, I think everyone thought he'd be able to provide a bit of offense to this team and that just hasnt happened at all.

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03-07-2011, 01:08 PM
  #219
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Hes 27 years old, so the "2nd year pro" thing has to be taken with a grain of salt as far as Im concerned.

Hes gotten better to the point where it looks like he maybe can be a consistent NHL #6 guy. But when it comes to expectations, I think everyone thought he'd be able to provide a bit of offense to this team and that just hasnt happened at all.
Yup... Age definitely plays a part, so does his $1.75 mil cap hit.... If he wants to play for $900K next season, I'll entertain utilizing his services, but I don't see why he should earn close to $2 mil again.... Not for a filler #6 defenseman who's adequate but not really above average.

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03-07-2011, 01:23 PM
  #220
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Guys out less than 10 games are a joke to bring up. Callahan mattered. Prospal, to me is unimportant, but fine if you want to include. Fedotenko? Please. Christensen? Come on. Boogaard? You must be kidding. Same for Biron.

Gaborik is the interesting one with room for dispute. One of you says it is a major loss. Another says he has been hurt all year. In any case, you cannot complain about Gaborik being hurt. That is his MO. He is always hurt. He is an albatross.

Complaining about the loss of Frolov could be the funniest comment of the thread. Everyone universally hates him but we should moan at our cursed luck when he goes down?

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Old
03-07-2011, 02:32 PM
  #221
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Guys out less than 10 games are a joke to bring up. Callahan mattered. Prospal, to me is unimportant, but fine if you want to include. Fedotenko? Please. Christensen? Come on. Boogaard? You must be kidding. Same for Biron.

Gaborik is the interesting one with room for dispute. One of you says it is a major loss. Another says he has been hurt all year. In any case, you cannot complain about Gaborik being hurt. That is his MO. He is always hurt. He is an albatross.

Complaining about the loss of Frolov could be the funniest comment of the thread. Everyone universally hates him but we should moan at our cursed luck when he goes down?
How is Prospal unimportant. You gonna tell me a healthy Prospal doesn't help the team this season???? Also, you blow off Fedotenko as if he is some scrub. He's been an important part of this team when on the ice. He plays in all situations and has scored some big goals.

As to Gaborik of course one can complain about him being hurt. Thats a lame excuse to say that you expected him to be injured most of the season and therefore no one should expect any production from him. Him missing all those games certainly had a negative impact on the team.

Finally, I will say I agree with you on Frolov. Losing him probably didn't affect the team this season. However, the other injuries certainly did hurt the team!

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03-07-2011, 03:32 PM
  #222
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Finally, I will say I agree with you on Frolov. Losing him probably didn't affect the team this season. However, the other injuries certainly did hurt the team!
I would argue that it did affect the team... Not because of how he was playing prior to his injury, but based on the fact that the Rangers committed $3 mil in cap space for this guy and that it's probably not unrealistic to say that they expected somewhere in the vicinity of 20 goals and 40-55 points out of him... Having him play like crap and then losing him to injury for the remainder of the season definitely affected this team's scoring depth, resulting in other players having to step up and pick up the scoring load (Boyle most notably).

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03-07-2011, 05:38 PM
  #223
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I would argue that it did affect the team... Not because of how he was playing prior to his injury, but based on the fact that the Rangers committed $3 mil in cap space for this guy and that it's probably not unrealistic to say that they expected somewhere in the vicinity of 20 goals and 40-55 points out of him... Having him play like crap and then losing him to injury for the remainder of the season definitely affected this team's scoring depth, resulting in other players having to step up and pick up the scoring load (Boyle most notably).
You are arguing that Frolov was crap and that he is a big loss. How can both statements be true?

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03-07-2011, 05:41 PM
  #224
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How is Prospal unimportant. You gonna tell me a healthy Prospal doesn't help the team this season???? Also, you blow off Fedotenko as if he is some scrub. He's been an important part of this team when on the ice. He plays in all situations and has scored some big goals.

As to Gaborik of course one can complain about him being hurt. Thats a lame excuse to say that you expected him to be injured most of the season and therefore no one should expect any production from him. Him missing all those games certainly had a negative impact on the team.

Finally, I will say I agree with you on Frolov. Losing him probably didn't affect the team this season. However, the other injuries certainly did hurt the team!
Prospal may have helped but he is an incredibly inconsistent player. Fedotenko is a scrub, to me. Thirty point guys grow on trees.

You can complain about Gaborik being hurt, but are you surprised he's hurt? Is anyone? Anyone surprised hasn't been paying attention to his career.

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Old
03-07-2011, 05:48 PM
  #225
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Fedotenko is no scrub and hockey isn't all about points. Look @ the Rangers record with Feds and without him. Hopefully, we'll make the playoffs and he'll be a monster like he was for the Pens (and TB).

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