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2011 Mid-Season Prospect Poll: Who's #4?

View Poll Results: Midseason #4 prospect
T.J. Brennan (D) 4 7.14%
Paul Byron (C) 1 1.79%
Marcus Foligno (LW) 5 8.93%
Jerome Gauthier-Leduc (D) 0 0%
Matt MacKenzie (D) 0 0%
Brayden McNabb (D) 28 50.00%
Mark Pysyk (D) 14 25.00%
Drew Schiestel (D) 3 5.36%
Kevin Sundher (C) 0 0%
Corey Tropp (RW) 1 1.79%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-07-2011, 11:30 AM
  #26
Rammstein816
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Vote Brennan, add Crawford.

It seems Brennan has quite a bit of ability to respond positively to bad situations, such as being benched. That's an underrated quality in my opinion. The ability to be taught could be as valuable as having the skills that can't be taught. He also shows toughness in the defensive end, but still has a good scoring touch. In my opinion, McNabb will be more of a shutdown guy when he gets here, not a offensive star (skating being an issue and all). Pysyk's not a guy who strikes me as an offensive guy or a hard hitter. Therefore, positional play, although very important is his only superior quality. Schiestal is good defensively and has decent offensive ability. I see Brennan having a bit more potential on both ends though. Hopefully, you can respect my opinion even if you don't agree with it.

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03-07-2011, 11:31 AM
  #27
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McNabb here. I think you have a guy in McNabb who can contribute a solid addition to team defense. When you can inject someone like that, whose game and strong suits are really all you want in a defenseman: size, strength, power, no lack of mobility/agility... he gets the nod over Pysyk. Barely.

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03-07-2011, 11:51 AM
  #28
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McNabb, add Biega

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03-07-2011, 11:52 AM
  #29
hockey18
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I watch the portland pirates games. Can't believe you can rate guys playing in juniors over proven guys. Brennan is on track to having a very good year, despite a slow start. Gragnani is leading the defensmen in the league in points. Shiestel was playing great before the injury. Can't rank any junior players above these guys. SPeed and physicality are much better in the AHL.

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03-07-2011, 12:02 PM
  #30
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I'm on Jame's wagon here. Schiestel, add Crawford.

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Old
03-07-2011, 12:23 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey18 View Post
I watch the portland pirates games. Can't believe you can rate guys playing in juniors over proven guys. Brennan is on track to having a very good year, despite a slow start. Gragnani is leading the defensmen in the league in points. Shiestel was playing great before the injury. Can't rank any junior players above these guys. SPeed and physicality are much better in the AHL.
Well, there's a certain amount of projection involved in all of this (and there are definitely many ways in which people incorporate that). Do you suggest that we put Crawford and Biega and Tropp above McNabb and Pysyk as well?

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03-07-2011, 12:31 PM
  #32
hockey18
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not at all. But guys that have played over the first year, and improve, should be given higher marks. They show they can play at that level and deserve a shot at the next level.

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03-07-2011, 12:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
Well, there's a certain amount of projection involved in all of this (and there are definitely many ways in which people incorporate that). Do you suggest that we put Crawford and Biega and Tropp above McNabb and Pysyk as well?
Why not?

Should we say then that the CHL 2011 #1 ranked D is a better prospect by using the same criteria?

At this junction in his career Crawford is defenetly better than Both and Schiestel is an AHL allstar.

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03-07-2011, 12:46 PM
  #34
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I really can't decide between McNabb, Schiestel and Pysyk so I'm not going to vote. I've always really liked McNabb, Pysyk seems like the most likely to stick in the NHL, and Schiestel was playing amazing in the AHL before his injury. If he didn't get hurt, I would have voted for Schiestel, but I don't really know how to evaluate his injury situation. And since I'm biased towards McNabb, I'm not going to vote for him over Pysyk since it's so close either way.

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03-07-2011, 12:49 PM
  #35
thefifagod
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Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
Why not?

Should we say then that the CHL 2011 #1 ranked D is a better prospect by using the same criteria?

At this junction in his career Crawford is defenetly better than Both and Schiestel is an AHL allstar.
Let's not be ridiculous now.

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03-07-2011, 12:51 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
Why not?

Should we say then that the CHL 2011 #1 ranked D is a better prospect by using the same criteria?

At this junction in his career Crawford is defenetly better than Both and Schiestel is an AHL allstar.
Older, yes. Better, maybe. Crawford's a nice example. He steadily improved after being drafted, was one of the best offensive defensemen in the OHL last year, and seems to be holding his own as a rookie pro. McNabb has developed too and has size and physical qualities that suggest he'll be a more impactful pro.

Based on his play, I'm believe he'll be better in the AHL next year than Crawford is this year. Maybe even better than Crawford next year. Pysyk has made similar strides to McNabb, but since he doesn't have the size and physical play, he's probably more similar to Crawford in terms of developmental curve.

These lists are still about projecting prospects to the NHL level. It's variable how much projection people use and what criteria they pick. Personally, I'm excited that Schiestel took a big step and Crawford is an AHL regular as a rookie, but I'm not going to give them too much credit simply because they are older. If McNabb wasn't killing it in the WHL for instance, I'd be more wary of his prospects, same with Pysyk. They may stall as minor leaguers, same as with Crawford, Schiestel, Brennan or Adam for that matter. Obviously, that's why the projection part is so difficult but it shouldn't be ignored simply because some players are older and have already made it to the AHL.


Do you seriously think that the #1 CHL player wouldn't be the top prospect in this organization.

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03-07-2011, 12:55 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey18 View Post
I watch the portland pirates games. Can't believe you can rate guys playing in juniors over proven guys. Brennan is on track to having a very good year, despite a slow start. Gragnani is leading the defensmen in the league in points. Shiestel was playing great before the injury. Can't rank any junior players above these guys. SPeed and physicality are much better in the AHL.
Mancari.

Consider your point invalid.

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03-07-2011, 02:29 PM
  #38
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As I said above, people use different metrics in ranking prospects, but I think this is the absolute worst way to rank prospects. Center is our biggest organizational need: Does that make Paul Byron and Kevin Sundher better prospects than Pysyk? I sure hope not. And size, physicality, and leadership are greater organizational needs than defense: does that make Marcus Foligno a better prospect than Scheistel, Brennan, and Pysyk? Again, I hope not.
If we were ranking the best prospect of the entire NHL then I would agree with you.
But we're ranking the best prospects of the sabres right now. And I think you have to consider the organizational needs too in that case.

Players, who fill a organizational need have a bigger chance seeing quality NHL time than Players who just have talent and potential IMO.
So I say that McNabb has a bigger chance making impact on OUR team with his skill set. So I consider that in my ranking.

I just want to make a ranking which players ar the best for our organization.
They all can play hockey, you have to ask yourself who can help this team the best with his skillset.

Of course you have to consider talent, potential and the latest developement too.
You have to find a middleway of all those charcteristics for the ranking, imo.

Pysyk may have more potential than McNabb but I go with Brayden on this poll because of his skill set which fits better on our franchise.

If I would be a fan of an other team, the decesion would be probably different, that depends on the team. But it's pretty damn close for sure.
You can't go wrong either way I guess.

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03-07-2011, 02:46 PM
  #39
French Connection
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Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
Let's not be ridiculous now.
Oh really now!

Crawford 70 points and a +51
McNabb 62 points and a +20
Pysyk 40 points and a +31

I know who I feel was and is better in junior.

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03-07-2011, 03:03 PM
  #40
ct2111
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Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
Oh really now!

Crawford 70 points and a +51
McNabb 62 points and a +20
Pysyk 40 points and a +31

I know who I feel was and is better in junior.
First of all McNabb/Pysyk haven't even finished their season yet and you're comparing them to Crawford's end of season numbers. Great idea. Point per game:
McNabb 1,17
Crawford 1,03
Pysyk 0,69

Second, WHL is supposed to be a slightly defensive tighter league than OHL.

Third, comparing +/- is just stupid, since you have to look at the teams/matchup they play with, so you could make a case for Pysyk's being the most impressive out of these, because he plays on a below average team, where as Crawford played on the arguably best team in the OHL.

Fourth, Pysyk is one year behind, so what's the point? If you have to compare them by points, atleast use their 3rd year numbers:
McNabb 0,89
Pysyk 0,69
Crawford 0,646

And last, there's a lot more to ranking them than points, like intangibles, projections, physical talent, etc. Hell, Byron had statistically a better season than Couture in their senior year.

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03-07-2011, 03:11 PM
  #41
thefifagod
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First of all McNabb/Pysyk haven't even finished their season yet and you're comparing them to Crawford's end of season numbers. Great idea. Point per game:
McNabb 1,17
Crawford 1,03
Pysyk 0,69

Second, WHL is supposed to be a slightly defensive tighter league than OHL.

Third, comparing +/- is just stupid, since you have to look at the teams/matchup they play with, so you could make a case for Pysyk's being the most impressive out of these, because he plays on a below average team, where as Crawford played on the arguably best team in the OHL.

Fourth, Pysyk is one year behind, so what's the point? If you have to compare them by points, atleast use their 3rd year numbers:
McNabb 0,89
Pysyk 0,69
Crawford 0,646

And last, there's a lot more to ranking them than points, like intangibles, projections, physical talent, etc. Hell, Byron had statistically a better season than Couture in their senior year.
Thank you for proving my point and saving me time. It's not a knock on Crawford, but he's clearly behind both of these guys long term. Sure Crawford could be ahead now, but he should be, he's older. His ceiling is lower than both McNabb and Pysyk

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03-07-2011, 03:23 PM
  #42
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I voted for Marcus Foligno.

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03-07-2011, 03:23 PM
  #43
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mancari isn't even considered a prospect. Check out the rankings, he isn't even listed. One or two year AHL guys is the reference.

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03-07-2011, 04:03 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
Thank you for proving my point and saving me time. It's not a knock on Crawford, but he's clearly behind both of these guys long term. Sure Crawford could be ahead now, but he should be, he's older. His ceiling is lower than both McNabb and Pysyk

....and how can we come to this conclusion already?

The only thing we can agree on is to disagree as I will reserve judgment until they both are playing Pro. Junior means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

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03-07-2011, 04:43 PM
  #45
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Brayden McNabb, but Pysyk and Schiestel are close too.
If Brennan had been consistent this season, I'd have him in this group too.

Add Crawford.

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03-07-2011, 04:50 PM
  #46
thefifagod
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....and how can we come to this conclusion already?

The only thing we can agree on is to disagree as I will reserve judgment until they both are playing Pro. Junior means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Sorry but I'll trust the opinion of professional scouts over yours; I have never seen a Sabres prospect ranking list with Crawford over any of McNabb, Schiestel, Pysyk or Brennan, and he's usually not even close to them in the rankings. And from what I've seen of all of them, albeit somewhat limited, I just like their potential and likelihood to read that potential more than Crawford. The consensus isn't always true, but it is correct more than not. You say junior means nothing in the grand scheme of things yet your original defense was that Crawford had more points in a full season of junior last year than McNabb and Pysyk have in their incomplete season.

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Old
03-07-2011, 07:48 PM
  #47
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Brennan, add Shipley

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